New Portobello High School - on going issues

[Bob Jefferson]

Wave 3 Schools Report

[Porty]

Letter from Saturday's Evening News; John Tulloch has an elementary solution where to place the new PHS. 3rd or 4th letter down.


http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/lette ... 4210219.jp

[Bob Jefferson]

From today's EN Letters Page (4th letter down):

Let land flower again rather than harvesting cash

[seanie]

Fourteen-year wait to revamp schools . . could do better

[Peter Bradley]

I loved the "debate" above but I have to admit to being a bit confused.

PPAG dont want the school on "their" park as, in "their" view, it will make "their" area a horrible place to live
(with all those nasty vandals and thugs that dont go to private schools - and the less said about the boys the better!).

So to be consistent with "their" rather disturbed view they should then be saying that PHS should be built away from all housing as, being good citizens, they wouldnt want to inflict that nightmare on anyone else.

Now, however much I disagree with "their" view of our children I could ,at least, respect their opinion.

This is where I get confused....

PPAG want to build the school near someone else's house and someone else's park! - my english isn't that strong so I looked it up ...

Selfishness
Holding one’s self-interest as the standard for decision making; Regard for oneself above others’ well-being
or
concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others
or
opposite of altruism ( I looked that up too)

Altruism is selfless concern for the welfare of others. It is a traditional virtue in many cultures, and central to many religious traditions

Hmm!

[Porty]

I wonder why they don't just re-route the Nr 4 bus so that it goes past the existing site and then maybe up to Jack Kane or Cavalry Park. Hey presto we have afit for purpose education experience for Portobello's children.

[tom nimmo]

Can't remember the last time I looked at Talk Porty or contributed so apologies for not having trawled through previous pages of posts. I like Peter Bradley's contribution above and I don't blame him for being confused with the debate. I really like Portobello park the way it is and if I lived in Park Avenue or the road round the other side of the park I would not welcome a school or any other building appearing in my view. I can also understand the argument for a school being built on the park as there is just no other site in the area for one. It is a well known fact that you can't please all the people all the time so all that can be hoped for is that some of the people are pleased some of the time.
I don't agree with Peter's opinion that the residents who will be affected are wrong in their "selfishness" and I think that is an easy and unfair accusation to throw at them. If anything at all was to be built on the bowling green in Rosefield Avenue I would have no hesitation in being "selfish" in my opposition to it. As for altruism? Does anyone really do anything purely for the common good without any thought for themselves. I give to charity because I believe in good causes and I also get a nice warm feeling for me in the process. Pure altruism, whilst being a wonderful aim, is probably unattainable for most people (myself included).

[Peter Bradley]

Tom makes a fair point and apologies for my clumsy comments above.

I have every sympathy with the residents around the park, but with no viable alternative (if there were I would be against using the park but there just isnt one!) we need to move the debate on.

We should now be ensuring that the new school is of the highest standard, designed not just to provide a successful school with modern facilities but also to have the least impact on the surrounding area.

Lets get the community involved at the design stage - if the school has to go in the park then lets make it one to be proud of.

[BeachBum]

On the subject of a new porty high school....

My old high school, Earlston High School in the Borders is presently being rebuilt a stones throw from the current one, its only a matter of months before pupils move to the new school and then preperations begin for the demolition of the current school.

It struck me the other day how sad it was that it was going to be getting knocked down! Just because ive reached 25 doesnt mean im getting sentimental (or however you spell it) im still far too young for that.lol

But its sad, and I know some other Alumni are sad about it too, will be the same for Porty High Schools former pupils....

Thats enough, I may start crying soon..lol

[Eck]

When walking down to Portobello on Tuesday I noticed, what I believed to be, a tree surgeon. Either that, or it was a 30+ woman who had taken up a lifestyle of an anti-social persuasion by spray-painting trees in Portobello Park. Two things crossed my mind;

The first was "Dear, you are wasting your time here, as all these trees will be chopped down soon anyway to allow for the construction (or deconstruction, whatever is most apt) vehicles to roll into the park and carry out their work much like the Russian troops rolling into Prague many years ago."

But, I then thought:

"Is this a ploy to convince the community that many of the trees in the Park are ill and need to be felled, thus allowing for a partial destruction of the Parks aesthetic features?"

If the Park has features removed systematically, when will the community stand up and say enough is enough. Taking things away one by one in a gradual manner lessens the blow to the opposition and can almost be done covertly until it is too late. I'd liken it to diving into a feezing cold swimming pool. Your first instinct is shock and would attempt to get out. Compare that to if you were, first off, in a warm swimming pool and the temperature was gradually lowered. You would be able to persevere with the lowering of the temperature as long as it was at a suitable rate... until... it's too late and hypothermia starts to set in.

What would be next for Portobello Park? A fungus in the shrubbery? Football cancelled as the drainage systems are failing underneath the pitches. Park attendants rostered to spend more time at other parks allowing Portobello Park to fall into a state of disrepair. Put all this together and what do you have?

A GREEN LIGHT TO GO AHEAD WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF A SCHOOL ON A DISUSED PIECE OF WASTE GROUND.

[wangi]

Or the marked trees could just be diseased...

[Eck]

You could be right and maybe paranoia is getting the better of me.

But, then again.

[Porty]

When walking down to Portobello on Tuesday I noticed, what I believed to be, a tree surgeon. Either that, or it was a 30+ woman who had taken up a lifestyle of an anti-social persuasion by spray-painting trees in Portobello Park. Two things crossed my mind;

The first was "Dear, you are wasting your time here, as all these trees will be chopped down soon anyway to allow for the construction (or deconstruction, whatever is most apt) vehicles to roll into the park and carry out their work much like the Russian troops rolling into Prague many years ago."

You saw a woman spraying a tree or two in Portobello Park and for you it recalled the horror of the Russian invasion of Prague in 1968?

To many people the connection you make would be unique in both absurdity and rationale. However, I'm pleased to inform you that you are by no means alone , as just a couple of weeks ago, a neighbour of mine was sectioned after witnessing a woman peeling an orange.

Even although he is only 30 years of age, the sight caused him to have flashbacks to the Vietnamese who were deskinned by the filthy chemicals dropped from US helicopters during the war. He simply couldn't sleep after colour connecting the unpeeling with the deskinning and ultimately became a danger to himself and others. It is a sad and somewhat terrifying story but at least you know you have company.

[Eck]

The first was "Dear, you are wasting your time here, as all these trees will be chopped down soon anyway to allow for the construction (or deconstruction, whatever is most apt) vehicles to roll into the park and carry out their work much like the Russian troops rolling into Prague many years ago."

You saw a woman spraying a tree or two in Portobello Park and for you it recalled the horror of the Russian invasion of Prague in 1968?

To many people the connection you make would be unique in both absurdity and rationale. However, I'm pleased to inform you that you are by no means alone , as just a couple of weeks ago, a neighbour of mine was sectioned after witnessing a woman peeling an orange.

Even although he is only 30 years of age, the sight caused him to have flashbacks to the Vietnamese who were deskinned by the filthy chemicals dropped from US helicopters during the war. He simply couldn't sleep after colour connecting the unpeeling with the deskinning and ultimately became a danger to himself and others. It is a sad and somewhat terrifying story but at least you know you have company.

It wasn't the spraying off the tree which I likened to the Prague Invasion, it was the possibility of the construction vehicles going into Portobello Park and tearing it to pieces.

[tom nimmo]

I love this thread. I visit every couple of months and it just gets dafter and dafter. Here's some advance warning Eck. I intend trimming some bushes in my front garden at the weekend. Please, please don't have a panic attack and imagine that I am in favour of the wholesale destruction of the Amazon rainforest. PS Is that school not built yet? Maybe at weekends it could double as a respite home for the paranoid and delusioned, minus the cctv of course.

[Eck]

Don't worry Mr Nimmo. Your garden does not bother me at all. You bash on and have fun trimming your bush.

You can maybe think up some more simplistic non-constructive comments whilst doing that.

[Bob Jefferson]

Back to more serious considerations. From today's EN:

Inconsistencies in project funding is a burning issue

[Maria]

From today's EN:

Swinney blames tram costs as schools programme stalls

[Bob Jefferson]

A complete red herring - trams have zilch to do with the school building programme. Perhaps Mr Swinney is trying to deflect attention from the farce that is the Scottish Futures Trust.

What's in a name? Imagine the discussion that took place pre-election:

"Scottish Futures Trust eh? Yes, I like it. Scottish - well obviously. Futures - yes, forward-thinking, future of our nation. And Trust - brilliant! Trust in us. The future of Scotland, safe in our hands. Excellent! Erm, so what is it exactly?"

"Well, we're still working on the fine detail Alex but it will definitely be a more cost-effective way of financing things like schools and hospitals. We will be able to match Labour's school building programme brick for brick. We'll issue bonds and it will be a radical alternative to PPP and PFI."

"Scottish Futures Trust. Mmm, I love it. What's next? Local Income Tax? Couldn't we tartan it up a bit and call it, um, Scottish Heather Income Tax?"

From the Scotsman recently:

Start funding major projects now or jobs and expertise will go, SNP told

The SFT is intended to be the body which funnels through infrastructure projects such as new schools, hospitals, roads and bridges.

But since the SNP came to power the commissioning of projects has ground to a halt, according to one building chief.

Delays have been caused because the original idea of issuing bonds had to be dropped after it was deemed illegal.

The SNP has been trying to develop the not-for-profit version of PFI to make it look different enough to sell to PFI opponents in the party.

Andy Kerr, Labour's local government spokesman, said: "This is nothing more than an expensive and poorly managed re-branding of PPP with a £17 million quango."

[Porty]

Scottish Futures Trust v PFI/PPP

In both models Funding is raised from the private sector who wish to see a return on their capital. For ease lets say that these private investors want a 10% return per annum. These companies and institutions currently support the PFI/PPP models and lets assume they get the return they desire so PFI?PPP delivers 10%pa.

The SNP say they can save £150m per annum by creating a new mechanism; Scottish Futures Trust. The only way they can make those savings is to reduce the return to the private sector investors. lets give them the benefit of the doubt and say they manage to get an agreement that private sector investors will only take 8.5% return. If they invest in Scotttish projects. On the face of it, it appears to be a big saving.

(As an aside there is no evidence to suggest that such a HUGE, and it is huge, decreae is in any way achieveable)

However, when it comes to these companies actualy investing their money and decisions are being taken in the boardrooms, what director/manager/chief financial officer or pension fund manager, would stand up and say. "We can get 8.5% if we invest this money in Scotland or 10% in England, Wales, Ireland and the rest of Europe" I thnk we should go for Scotland. I'm sure the shareholders will be delighted"

It ain't going to happen. The SNP cannot create a micro financial market that is insulated from the virtually free market forces that apply elsewhere.

SFT will be PFI/PPP, it will cost the same or more but it will be dressed up in a package that appears to be different. Meanwhile, Schools are not being built.

[Maria]

From today's EN :

Cool down over this burning issue






edit: Oops! Got the date wrong! I'm a whole week out as Porty correctly points out

[Porty]

Nah, that was from last weeks EN. Unfortunatley they didn't publish my response. The councillor fails to answer the question. Prefers to take the "i'm insulted" personal line.

And he talks about waiting 3 years fr this facuility like we only need a schhol in the last couple of weeks.

[Porty]

http://www.scotsman.com/opinion/-PFI39s ... 4517420.jp

Interesting article - it seems that Local Authorities can borrow significant funds.

[Porty]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topst ... 4526811.jp

Not totally relevant to the school per se but approximately the same error she made about vandalism in the school, when she stood up in front of the entire council and seemed to take great delight in stating that she had it on good authority it was vandals wotdunnit. (flooded the sink)

I think she may survive this scandal. Mainly because Andrew Burns and Ewan Aitken don't appear to be baying for blood, which they would be justified in doing.

[seanie]

Council 'fiddle' keeps schools off crumbling buildings list

[Bob Jefferson]

From today's EN Letters Page:

Fiddling of facts is a moral failure

THE council's fiddling of the facts over the condition of schools such as Portobello High is indicative of its deliberate stalling of the urgently needed replacement programme for schools in this city.

This is not just a political failure, it is a moral one.

Richard Butt, Marlborough Street, Edinburgh

[Bob Jefferson]

A progress report on the Wave 3 Schools Project will be presented to Council on Thursday.

Available to read here

It would appear that very little real progress has been made in the last couple of years and in the meantime Portobello High School lumbers on in a condition that continues to deteriorate.

With specific regard to PHS and the Edinburgh Local Plan, Cllr Henderson will ask the following questions, to be answered by the Convener of the Education, Children and Families Committee:

• 1. With regard to the Inquiry into the Edinburgh Local Plan, what is the Council doing to address the concerns of the National Playing Fields Association (now called Fields in Trust) and sportscotland in order to mitigate any opposition by them to the planned use of Portobello Park as the site of the new school?
  
  2. Have Council officials met these groups to discuss their concerns?
  
  3. What steps is the Council taking to ensure that it can put the strongest case in the defence of the proposed Edinburgh City Plan?
  
  4. Specifically, when does the Council plan to conduct an audit of green space, including public open space, in the catchment area to evidence there is currently a surplus (eg that it currently exceeds 6 acres of open space for every 1000 residents)?
  
  5. What concrete work is the Council doing to identify replacement green space to evidence there are equivalent facilities within a 10 minute walk for any green space that may be 'lost'?
  
  6. Is the Council prepared to consider a MUGA (multi-use games area) for example on the largely derelict, Council-owned depot behind the golf club adjacent to the railway line? Fields in Trust confirmed this would, in principle, address their objection.

[Bob Jefferson]

From yesterday's EN Letters Page:

Chance for city to put children first

TOMORROW, Edinburgh City Council could reaffirm its neglect of the city's children by delaying the replacement of schools such as Portobello High.

Or it could recognise that "the true measure of a nation's standing is how well it attends to its children" (UNICEF, 2007). Will the Education Leader do the right thing?

Richard Butt, Marlborough Street, Edinburgh

And Save Portobello Park's response?

Let's hope its (sic) the former!!

[Bob Jefferson]

From Ewan Aitken's blog yesterday:

On the so called "wave three schools", (the five schools next in line to be rebuilt in Edinburgh), the report we received today could have been written a year ago. The angry parents delegation said so themselves. No progress, no funding and no plan how to get funding with the Scottish (no) Futures Trust in utter disarray.

[Bob Jefferson]

An important document I neglected to link to earlier in the year:

Wave 3 Business Case June 08

[seanie]

Porty parents voice 'systems shutdown' fear

[seanie]

New-build city schools facing £17m crunch time

[Bob Jefferson]

From the EN recently:

Plan to put school on sports pitch a 'disaster'

[Bob Jefferson]

Following the Edinburgh City Local Plan Inquiry, and taking into account objections and supporting submissions, the Council has now produced an Enhanced Statement of Case regarding the siting of a new Portobello High School on Portobello Park.

The para that read:

A site at Portobello Park is safeguarded for the possible development of a replacement high school. This location has been selected by the Council following public consultation in 2006 but has not yet been considered through the planning process. It is anticipated that detailed proposals will be drawn up in due course.

is now replaced by:

A site at Portobello Park is identified for the possible development of a replacement high school. This location has been selected by the Council following public consultation in 2006 but has not yet been dealt with as a planning application. It is anticipated that detailed proposals will be drawn up in due course.

Enhanced Statement of Case

[Porty]

An oldie- it doesn't seem like we've come very far:

What schooling does Portobello require in the future?
The initial proposals appear to be based on replacing like-for-like, i.e. rebuilding a new highschool and a new primary school. Have the long-terms trends in school roll numbers beenassessed?

It was only at the end of last year that we were told that there were several too many primary schools in Edinburgh. We are very proud of the achievements at St John’s and are certainly not recommending closing a very successful school. Portobello High School was at one time the biggest school in Europe. Is this an opportunity to replace the school with two smaller schools on separate sites? Have the Council looked at changing catchment areas so that new proposals could be considered? The proposals presented so far provide little or no
information on such alternative and innovative ideas. We welcome the report in the Evening
News (March 23rd) that the Council are belatedly beginning to look at alternatives.
Financing of Redevelopment
City of Edinburgh Councillors and officials have suggested that the only way to get a new
school is to raise capital by further selling of city assets. They have focussed on Portobello
and indicated that the only possible way of funding new schools is to knock down the
existing schools, sell the land for housing, build the new schools on part of the golf course,
and sell off at least part, if not all, the rest of the area for yet more housing. This is hardly an
example of best practise or sustainable policies. What happens in 40 years when we need the
next new school? There will be no green spaces left to sell!
We urge the Council to look for innovative ideas to fund any new and necessary development
by other means. These are several suggestions by Community Councillors and local residents.
I am sure that the City Council should be able to develop further ideas:
a) Use funding from the sale of the 5-a-side site in Portobello towards funding
renovation or new build.
b) Use funding from the sale of the land where other schools are being closed because of falling numbers.
c) Use funding from the sale of other assets across Edinburgh to support the new build.
There seems to be one-way traffic in East Edinburgh - to take resources and facilitiesaway from the east to elsewhere in Edinburgh.
d) Build housing on the Jewel.
e) There are several schools across Edinburgh that are gaining funding through PPP
initiatives. These areas do not have to give up facilities for new schools, but
Portobello does. Why shouldn’t the sale of assets be Edinburgh –wide rather than just
in Portobello?
f) Change the designation of some green belt land to allow building on the edge of the
city. This would allow valuable open spaces and leisure facilities to be retained within
the city.
g) Look for external funding from the lottery, government, through commercial
sponsorship or elsewhere. Portobello could make use of the waterfront initiative to
develop a marine or renewable energy specialism to the school along the lines of
some of the specialist schools for music, languages etc. This may open up new
sources of capital.
h) Transfer the bus depot at Seafield to the freightliner terminal and redevelop the water
front site to raise funds.
i) Enhance the current site by utilising the long-neglected tennis courts at the school. If
St John’s was moved to share the Duddingston Primary campus, there would be
significant extra room on the current site. If the High School was moved, then St
John’s could be extended onto the tennis courts.
The Council has indicated that a major overhaul of the High School would be very difficult
with pupils remaining on site. It is suggested that during renovation, pupils from the High
School could temporarily relocate to the old Holyrood site once the new Holyrood School is
completed.
Other sites
The initial proposal is based on the golf course being the only site big enough and viable for a
new school. We dispute this, as although desirable to have full on-site sports facilities, it is
not an overarching requirement. Other suggested sites include
a) Holyrood campus
b) Freightliner terminal
c) Duddingston School (for a new St John’s)
d) “Pitz” site (possibly combined with the Scottish Power site)
e) Lothian Bus Depot on the Promenade (including an option to build out into the sea –
which could fit in with the Waterfront redevelopment)

[/b]