New Portobello High School- Where and how?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 31 Mar 2006, 14:50

I have trouble walking past any council park or ex-bowling green without wondering if the council want to get their hands on that, too.

Especially the ones round Brunswick St and in between the tenements off Leith Walk.

Seems to me that once the brownfield sites are gone, the voracious appetites of the developers mean they will turn their eyes towards all our parks. Like Pacman. Munch, munch.

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 31 Mar 2006, 15:02

Dadaist wrote:I have trouble walking past any council park or ex-bowling green without wondering if the council want to get their hands on that, too.

Still struggling with "get their hands on it"". Surely the council have maintained and nurtured Portobello Park for 150 years and have been good custodians throughout that time? Accepting one could argue that the may have done a better job.

However, they have had "their hands on it" and taken good care. Surely they deserve some respect and a fair hearing when wishing to develop the land for the benefit of the greater community?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 31 Mar 2006, 15:08

People will take their own view on the Council's integrity, I have mine.

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 31 Mar 2006, 15:32

Dadaist wrote:People will take their own view on the Council's integrity, I have mine.

Yep and I bet you and I don't differ much in that regard. However, in this case surely you must accept that the council have been supportive and good custodians over a very long time?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 31 Mar 2006, 15:42

Stephen McIntyre wrote:
Dadaist wrote:People will take their own view on the Council's integrity, I have mine.
Yep and I bet you and I don't differ much in that regard. However, in this case surely you must accept that the council have been supportive and good custodians over a very long time?

Pass. I'm not "surely" "accepting" anything, having watched the way you have treated dc, gemini, carla et al. I support this plan but I'm not jumping through any of your hoops.

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 31 Mar 2006, 16:05

Ok, so how would you describe the Council's custodianship of Portobello Park?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 31 Mar 2006, 16:11

Stephen McIntyre wrote:Ok, so how would you describe the Council's custodianship of Portobello Park?

Go and have an argument with yourself :

Stephen McIntyre wrote:The council did little more than cut the grass

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 31 Mar 2006, 16:15

Alison Connelly wrote: One of the points in the document is that the location is poor for the provision of community facilities as it is not central enough. The golf course is not that much nearer Portobello, so I would imagine that the "community facilities" part of the plan might come under attack

The community facilities or lack of, referred to at the existing school are not community sports facilities, they can't be, as there's none. Some of the community facilities in the school in the park will be community sports facilities. Therefore your imagined attack will unlikely to be forthcoming.

Glad to see you are supportive of centrally located shared community facilities. How do feel Holyrood, Brunstane and the Scottsih Power sites would fair in this regard?

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 31 Mar 2006, 16:17

Dadaist wrote:
Stephen McIntyre wrote:Ok, so how would you describe the Council's custodianship of Portobello Park?
Go and have an argument with yourself :

Stephen McIntyre wrote:The council did little more than cut the grass

Very poor, an out of context quotation. I expect better of you.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 31 Mar 2006, 16:21

Dale, dale, dale,
No pierdas el tino
Porque si lo pierdes
pierdes el camino.

Ya le diste una,
ya le diste dos,
ya le diste tres
Â¡y tu tiempo se acabÃ³!

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 31 Mar 2006, 16:38

Alison Connelly wrote:There were a couple of points I feel worth emphasising. The first is that it was clear from the document that the condition of Portobello was one of the worst, and it seems strange that the council did not give this aspect more weighting. I wonder why they didn't? A cynic ( ) might think that they always had a plan at the back of their minds for Portobello, and they just had to wait a respectable time before they wheeled it out. Now they have. Were they looking for an excuse to get their hands on that big piece of land some people call the golf course?

So the PPP2 prioritisation procedure was rigged to allow the Council to pursue their fiendish vendetta against Portobello golf-course?

Wow.

Portobelloâ€™s great. Iâ€™m really glad Iâ€™ve moved here. You all seem lovely. But good god youâ€™re a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theorists.

Is there something in the water?

Alison Connelly wrote:The second was that Portobello scorerd very low on the community facilities "mark". One of the points in the document is that the location is poor for the provision of community facilities as it is not central enough. The golf course is not that much nearer Portobello, so I would imagine that the "community facilities" part of the plan might come under attack

These proposals do not require any PPP marking system.

These proposals place the school on a much larger site allowing far greater potential for community facilities, both educational and recreational.

And Iâ€™m not sure everyone thinks the golf-course too far from Portobello;

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index ... =162172006

Diana Cairns, of West Brighton Crescent, Portobello, said: "I'm horrified by the thought of losing all of that green space in the centre of Portobello.

"It's used by all sorts of people - not just golfers, but dog walkers and children - and the great thing is it's so central.

Golfer Marion Summers, 59, of Mountcastle Drive South, said: "We will get a petition up. I have played golf there for 30 years, a lot of people learned to play on that course. The great thing is it is in the heart of the community and people can walk to it.

http://news.scotsman.com/edinburgh.cfm?id=312012006

Margo, 61, of Durham Terrace, says: "There were lots of children playing here in the holidays last week. The course is open to everyone and lots of people use it. It is also very accessible to everyone because it is in the heart of the community.

If the golf-course is so central to the Portobello community could someone explain to me why a school on the golf-course wouldnâ€™t be?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 31 Mar 2006, 16:44

Portobelloâ€™s great. Iâ€™m really glad Iâ€™ve moved here. You all seem lovely. But good god youâ€™re a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theorists.

Yeah but the truth is out there!

I love all the quotes you make which start with "you all" and "you're".

In fact :

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 31 Mar 2006, 17:08

Stephen McIntyre wrote:Alison, what does "an excuse to get their hands on it" mean?

You know exactly what it means - I explained it to you on Monday

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 31 Mar 2006, 17:12

seanie wrote:Portobelloâ€™s great. Iâ€™m really glad Iâ€™ve moved here. You all seem lovely. But good god youâ€™re a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theorists.

Is there something in the water?

Portobello was great. I'm really glad I was born here. I am lovely. But good god, I'm a Council battle scarred realist.

There's something in the air

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 31 Mar 2006, 17:12

Dadaist wrote:I love all the quotes you make which start with "you all" and "you're".

I'm glad.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 31 Mar 2006, 17:18

George Washington's dad gets home to find his son has cut down a cherry tree.

"I cannot tell a lie" the boy says. "I did cut down the tree".

"But surely you must admit that I have maintained, nurtured and been a good custodian of that tree over a very long time!"

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 31 Mar 2006, 17:28

Dadaist wrote:George Washington's dad gets home to find his son has cut down a cherry tree.

"I cannot tell a lie" the boy says. "I did cut down the tree".

"But surely you must admit that I have maintained, nurtured and been a good custodian of that tree over a very long time!"

"And anyway, there's another one two minutes up the road"

Rex_Mundi · Post by **Rex_Mundi** » 01 Apr 2006, 09:10

Dave Connelly wrote:Found these washed up on the beach at Portobello whilst walking yesterday morning, found about 20 in all from Bath Street to the Musselburgh end of the prom.

<img src="http://www.clanconnelly.com/agallery/golf2.jpg">
<img src="http://www.clanconnelly.com/agallery/golf1.jpg">

Do you think they were

1) Lost and looking for Porty golf course
2) Very long drives from Fife
3) A local art Exhibit
4) The end of some depressed Golfer

Answers on a post card please

Anyone DC, who has a modicum of intellect, can see through this ruse.
(Depending on ones computer monitor of course), if a piece of glass/mirror is held between the two golf pictures, a symbol will appear worthy of inclusion in one of Dan Browns books.

Good try, close, but no cigar.

The anagram in the wording is also fairly weak. Another Brown-ism. Was it from Digital Fortress

â€œAnd above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.â€

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 01 Apr 2006, 11:28

Dadaist wrote:George Washington's dad gets home to find his son has cut down a cherry tree.

"I cannot tell a lie" the boy says. "I did cut down the tree".

"But surely you must admit that I have maintained, nurtured and been a good custodian of that tree over a very long time!"

Almost a relevant analogy.

However, the boy did not own the tree.

Also, there is no mention of a purpose and that the sad loss of a tree of will better enable thousands of young boys and girls to grow and flourish. I think GW would have been proud had he known the full story.

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 01 Apr 2006, 11:31

Epykat wrote:
Stephen McIntyre wrote:Alison, what does "an excuse to get their hands on it" mean?
You know exactly what it means - I explained it to you on Monday

I didn't get it. Doesn't make sense to me.

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 01 Apr 2006, 15:07

Maureen Child Newsletter wrote:
Maureen Child, Local Councillor for Milton Ward

Portobello High School - Possible Way Forward?

There has been a lot of debate and discussion, conversations and meetings about the possible way ahead for schools in Portobello and district and understandably so. I have spent more time and effort on this issue in the last month than anything else put together and it has been a pre-occupation for years before that. Contrary to popular myth, this new proposal is not a done deal by any means. It needs everyone's input to make it happen, to stop it happening or to make the very best of what might happen.

I very much hope we can continue to discuss the issues without personal attacks, although people on all sides of this question have told me they feel pretty bruised. Some are being caught in the middle, torn in more than one direction. It seems to be dividing families and friends and we should all take great care to ensure that pressure is eased. Making tough decisions is a bruising process, by its very nature, without any of us making it more so. Let's make this a positive community process.

As I think I have said throughout, there is no way I would be supportive of taking forward this radical idea if I could see another practical way forward than using the golf course option, that would afford the kind of schools and community facilities which the whole of Portobello and district needs. There is no question that this wide community's children and families very much need this facility for themselves and for future generations.

There are a number of apparent alternative solutions being put forward, but I do not yet see a viable one among them. A simple look at the map of Portobello will tell you that there is only one site at the centre of the catchment area and that it is enormous. I have asked myself the key question - what should be at the heart of a community? Excellent community schools in woods and parkland, with playing fields for all? Or a golf course? If that is the choice, there's no real contest in my view: the community school has it hands down.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 01 Apr 2006, 19:38

You missed the bit where she said the school is structurally sound and is not falling down around the ears of the staff and children

. Bet that's a blow to some

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 01 Apr 2006, 21:06

seanie wrote:For Fitness for Purpose only 3 schools ranked worse and 9 ranked better.

For Accessibility only 1 school ranked worse.

For Condition only 2 schools ranked worse, 10 ranked better, with Holyrood the same.

Judged on those three criteria alone only one school ranked as a higher priority ...

....So whilst PHS was rated as a lower priority by some PPP2 criteria, it was clearly one of the most urgent in terms of physical condition. That situation can be expected to deteriorate as time progresses.

But as long as it's structurally sound and not actually falling down on staff and children that's alright.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 01 Apr 2006, 23:23

seanie wrote:But as long as it's structurally sound and not actually falling down on staff and children that's alright.

Well, I'm relieved since it'll be at least 4 years before we can move to a nice shiny new one! But since the fact that it is falling down round about our ears (allegedly) was the basis of quite a few arguments for rushing through the proposals, some people won't be happy that it's not - was the point I was making

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 01 Apr 2006, 23:46

Epykat wrote:But since the fact that it is falling down round about our ears (allegedly) was the basis of quite a few arguments for rushing through the proposals....

Was it?

I'm not aware of many claims that PHS was literally falling down. And I'm not sure many have argued that the proposals be rushed through without scrutiny. Though some appear to have decided these proposals are unaccepable without further consideration.

But if you accept there is a problem, that needs to be addressed, do you have any practical suggestions here and now?

Or do you prefer to wait until the school is "falling down around the ears of the staff and children".

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 02 Apr 2006, 01:06

Epykat wrote:You missed the bit where she said the school is structurally sound and is not falling down around the ears of the staff and children . Bet that's a blow to some

Edinburgh Royal Infirmary was not falling down around the ears (around the ears?) of the staff and patients. Neither was: the dental hospital, the school of artificial intelligence, the royal bank of scotland headquarters, edinburgh airport, the high and sheriff courts and so on.

I didn't miss any "bit" I merely stopped when it got to the best bit.

It is a mind boggling that people are happier or think its more appropriate that a golf course is at the heart of a community and a school is remote.

Many of these people are the same people who freaked, were horrified and shocked, when it was suggested that the library were to be moved 500 yards.

Lawrence Marshall was prepared to compulsory purchase peoples homes to keep the library in the centre of portobello high street, which is not the centre of the community it serves. A few months later he is prepared to deprive the children of the community and locate their school to a peripheral site. I don't know why? Perhaps he would like to explain the comparative rationales?

Dave Connelly · Post by **Dave Connelly** » 02 Apr 2006, 09:21

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 02 Apr 2006, 12:33

seanie wrote:But if you accept there is a problem, that needs to be addressed, do you have any practical suggestions here and now?

I'm not actually sure what it is you're asking me here? Do I think the conditions in the school are intolerable? No, I don't. Do I see wildlife flying up and down the corridors on a daily basis? No, I don't. Are our pupils in danger of becoming obese because they don't have a playing field? No, they are not. Is their education suffering? No, it's not.
To be perfectly honest, it will do nothing for the ethos of the school as it stands for the pupils to be told that their school is unfit and their education is suffering. The kids in the school at the moment will spend their entire school career there. I'm sure it makes them feel great to keep hearing negatives.

{quote="seanie"]Or do you prefer to wait until the school is "falling down around the ears of the staff and children".[/quote]

No, I certainly do not. But exaggerating the conditions therein and implying that the staff and pupils are working in something akin to Victorian workhouse is a great propaganda tool for those who want the current proposals to go through quickly. Yes, we need a new school and it would be a very naive person who would deny that (and before you say it, no I'm not coming up with an alternative proposal and no, I don't want another lecture about money) but since the school is now officially deemed to be 'structurally sound' we can afford the time to explore every single avenue in detail and not just accept the supposed 'only option'.

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 02 Apr 2006, 14:30

Epykat wrote:
seanie wrote:But if you accept there is a problem, that needs to be addressed, do you have any practical suggestions here and now?
I'm not actually sure what it is you're asking me here? Do I think the conditions in the school are intolerable? No, I don't. Do I see wildlife flying up and down the corridors on a daily basis? No, I don't. Are our pupils in danger of becoming obese because they don't have a playing field? No, they are not. Is their education suffering? No, it's not.
To be perfectly honest, it will do nothing for the ethos of the school as it stands for the pupils to be told that their school is unfit and their education is suffering. The kids in the school at the moment will spend their entire school career there. I'm sure it makes them feel great to keep hearing negatives.

{quote="seanie"]Or do you prefer to wait until the school is "falling down around the ears of the staff and children".
No, I certainly do not. But exaggerating the conditions therein and implying that the staff and pupils are working in something akin to Victorian workhouse is a great propaganda tool for those who want the current proposals to go through quickly. Yes, we need a new school and it would be a very naive person who would deny that (and before you say it, no I'm not coming up with an alternative proposal and no, I don't want another lecture about money) but since the school is now officially deemed to be 'structurally sound' we can afford the time to explore every single avenue in detail and not just accept the supposed 'only option'.

[/quote]

IMO Epycat know's much more about the school, than most who
post here. hasn't the Milton and Joppa Rep, written that Porty is not
falling down! This should at the very least, stop the sensationalism. So what's the big rush? Lets, as Epycat said, explore
every alternative, and stop the hysteria.

I

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 02 Apr 2006, 20:29

Who claimed the school was structurally unsound?

I may have missed it but I don't remember anybody suggesting that. I for one didn't need written reassurance from the Milton and Joppa rep.

Because buildings that are structurally unsound are dangerous.

Buildings that are structurally unsound have a nasty habit of falling down.

The idea that a school might be allowed to operate in a building that is structurally unsound is utterly ludicrous.

So why anyone would take the statement that the school is "structurally sound" as a significant revelation is beyond me.

It's a statement of the blindingly obvious.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 05 Apr 2006, 18:40

...eerie quiet. Easter holidays?

Anyway, here is version 2 of the SSP brochure on PHS/St Johns

http://www.radiofreeporty.org/ssp/our_choice_v2.pdf

Once again if you have any comments for your nice local socialists feel free to aim them at me and I will bounce them on.

Post by **wangi** » 05 Apr 2006, 18:59

They've still got that big mistake at the end - the quote from the Central Edinburgh Plan... And another major mistake too.

And What's With the Capitalisation?

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 05 Apr 2006, 19:19

It is full of errors and baffling comparisons. One thing I had not appreciated is Portobello Park was gifted to the Council for recreation only.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 05 Apr 2006, 20:46

wangi wrote:They've still got that big mistake at the end - the quote from the Central Edinburgh Plan... And another major mistake too.

And What's With the Capitalisation?

Dunno - I haven't read it.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 05 Apr 2006, 21:31

They're still suggesting that Falkirk and Argyll & Bute have made a "break from PPP" when both councils are engaged in PPP contracts.

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

New Portobello High School- Where and how?

Re: Washed up on the beach

This is getting