New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Pal of Porty]

2.13.4 The basketball fraternity is dissatisfied with the new proposals, as the new facilities will be inferior to the current ones, which have produced potential future Olympians. The state of the art gym hall on the current site will end up being demolished. It is clear that, apart from one additional all-weather pitch, the new school will end up being worse in terms of sporting facilities than the current one,

The basketball fraternity (and they are brilliant) are indeed dissatisfied with the new proposals but to state that the new school will end up being worse in terms of sporting facilities is ludicrous. Why don't you have a chat with the swimmers and water polo players to see what they think?

[Pal of Porty]

Interesting article in the Scotsman the other day:
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sc ... -1-2210277

Saw that too and thought at the time she should join PPAG.

She has already followed due process to challenge the Plans and has also lost twice in the Court of Session. There also does not appear to be too much in the way of public support for her challenge?

If this lady plays her cards right Ros better watch out or this dude will become the PPAG chairperson.

[Porty]

Betty is quoting from a PPAG interpretation of what went down at a PCC meeting. Can there be a more corrupt source? I doubt it.

[seanie]

And the difference in pitch provision is between two full sized all weather pitches compared to a single five-a-side.

The total pitch area will be at least 15 times greater than now.

[Franck]

2.13.4 The basketball fraternity is dissatisfied with the new proposals, as the new facilities will be inferior to the current ones, which have produced potential future Olympians. The state of the art gym hall on the current site will end up being demolished. It is clear that, apart from one additional all-weather pitch, the new school will end up being worse in terms of sporting facilities than the current one

Hmm, the basketball fraternity in Portobello,eh?If it's the same fraternity that was in place when I played there (winning many,many trophies ) there might be a conflict of interest there when talking about the pro's & con's of a new school in the park.
I'd be interested to hear what the issue's are, as we managed to be very successful in the old PHS sports hall, before the nice new one was built.

[gillian]

So the present pitches are so crap and underused that there's plenty of opportunity for casual use, even though nobody does, whereas the all-weather pitches will be so popular and well used that there won't be plenty of opportunity for casual use? OK, I can see that, but it would be a pretty peverse argument for PPAG to advance.

Makes you wonder why they haven't.

Lsiten up everyone. The penny has just dropped. Betty Windsor is, in fact, in favour of the school on the park.
What she does is put forward rubbish and increasingly bonkers arguments. That way the counter arguments are shown to be clear, consise and infinitely sensible.

It's brilliant, it's clever. Embrace her and her guided tours, she is one of us.

[rmolehusband]

Lsiten up everyone. The penny has just dropped. Betty Windsor is, in fact, in favour of the school on the park.

That makes sense and it would explain why, despite appearing to be so vehemently against the school now, she didn't actually bother object to the planning application. Bravo, Betty!

[Epykat]

Seriously, you lot should learn to grow up. I'd be ashamed of my children if they spoke about people the way you do. It's infantile and rude.

[seashell]

Interesting article in the Scotsman the other day:

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sc ... -1-2210277

Very interesting comments too, including this one
"This is, unfortunately, one of those too frequent cases where the unsuccessful party just keeps steaming on and on, regardless. Whether Miss Uprichard is justified or not, there comes a time when enough is enough. Some party litigators carry on with un-winnable cases, racking up huge expense, not only for themselves, but for the other parties they involve. The normal rule is 'expenses follow success' - if you lose, you pay."

Now, that reminds me of a other case, a little closer to home...

[wangi]

What I picked up on in the St Andrew's article was:

“The huge price of environmental litigation emphasises the serious doubts many people have about democracy in our planning system. Individuals who want to challenge the views of unelected officials risk the imposition of ruinous and potentially life-changing costs.”

Of course, in our case the application has went through the democratic process.

[gillian]

Seriously, you lot should learn to grow up. I'd be ashamed of my children if they spoke about people the way you do. It's infantile and rude.

Infantile maybe, rude no.

This however ,

"Yes there I go again. I'm surprised you don't speak up for them more given that they make up a large portion of your clientele"

is rude and offensive, I would be very ashamed if my children were to make a comment like that on a public forum.

[Makaveli]

Epykat - I take it you don't use any other forums on the internet? This has to be the tamest forum I am on by a long way!!!

[Porty]

stomping out the room when asked a questiion during a conversation is extremely rude. We have a few exponents here.

[Bob Jefferson]

Could someone give me a hand to spot which of our local community councillors have signed the petition? I'm a bit out of touch with the current membership. So far, I have spotted:

Sean Watters, Maria Devoy, Willie Wilson, Tom Ballantine, Nick Stroud (joint sec).

There must be more, surely?

[wangi]

Bob, have you emailed Portobello Community Council (secretary, form on web page) asking them to consider it and forward to members?

[Maria]

Could someone give me a hand to spot which of our local community councillors have signed the petition? I'm a bit out of touch with the current membership. So far, I have spotted:

Sean Watters, Maria Devoy, Willie Wilson, Tom Ballantine, Nick Stroud (joint sec).

There must be more, surely?

The full list of current members can be found here

Willie Wilson and Lillian Graham are, however, are no longer members.

Bob Gatliffe (ex-chair of the PCC) should also appear on the list as a group rep. for Joppa Tennis Courts.

[terry2t]

Portobello is sorely divided by the school issue but don't worry I have the solution. Move it a couple of miles up the road. Craigmillar would be glad of it, and we would not mind if it was still called Portobello School. There you are; park saved, a new school where it will appreciated and arguement over because you will all have to band together to fight for a much needed school as we in Craigmillar have been doing for some time.

[seanie]

That'd be a huge catchment, especially as and when Craigmillar is redeveloped. The school roll would be 2000 plus.

[Bob Jefferson]

So only 3 of the elected members have signed so far - Maria, Tom and Nick. And only 2 of the group members - Sean and Lawrence.

[Bob Jefferson]

Bob, have you emailed Portobello Community Council (secretary, form on web page) asking them to consider it and forward to members?

I just did. Not sure whether this has already been done but no harm in asking.

[seanie]

That was just hilarious! And without a hint of irony.
Priceless Seanie, just priceless. Do you think people aren't aware that you barred me from your FB page "by mistake".
It makes you look ridiculous whining about other people doing it.

No Gillian (or should I call you Betty?) I didn't bar you by mistake. I've already explained to you that you were barred for an offensive comment that I felt went too far. The rest of your comments were removed by mistake, because I didn't realise they would disappear when I barred you for your offensive comment.

[Porty]

Bob, have you emailed Portobello Community Council (secretary, form on web page) asking them to consider it and forward to members?

I just did. Not sure whether this has already been done but no harm in asking.

Expect another email circulation log jam from the pcc secretary .. Unable to forward emails due to her cat being attacked in the park was the most recent excuse offered up by the Chaiperson .

[Bob Jefferson]

Fortunately, there is more than one secretary and the other doesn't have a cat (to my knowledge).

[Betty Windsor]

Seriously, you lot should learn to grow up. I'd be ashamed of my children if they spoke about people the way you do. It's infantile and rude.

Infantile maybe, rude no.

This however ,

"Yes there I go again. I'm surprised you don't speak up for them more given that they make up a large portion of your clientele"

is rude and offensive, I would be very ashamed if my children were to make a comment like that on a public forum.

Rosa you will have to forgive me but I'm not sure who I've offended here (apart from yourself clearly). I'm sure PoP is well aware of who his client group is mostly made up of. As for the clients themselves, while they may not exactly be proud of being poor, I doubt few would deny it.
If I have offended PoP then I'm sorry, because that was not my intention.

[Betty Windsor]

Bob,
I see you've been checking up on people to see whether they've got their posters up or not. What's the punishment for non-compliance? Ostricisation? Any pressure being brought to bear on shopkeepers for not putting up the posters? As there was by you when PPAG put up posters some time ago?
How many of the signatures on your petition are over 18?
The disgraceful way these young people have been used in this latest cynical attempt to intimidate PPAG is an absolute betrayal of all our children.

[Makaveli]

Bob, have you emailed Portobello Community Council (secretary, form on web page) asking them to consider it and forward to members?

I just did. Not sure whether this has already been done but no harm in asking.

Expect another email circulation log jam from the pcc secretary .. Unable to forward emails due to her cat being attacked in the park was the most recent excuse offered up by the Chaiperson .

I just sprayed my screen with coffee with laughter!!! That has to be a wind up?

[Mark Cameron]

How many of the signatures on your petition are over 18?
The disgraceful way these young people have been used in this latest cynical attempt to intimidate PPAG is an absolute betrayal of all our children.

Come on Betty you really are clutching at straws now. Face the facts the groundswell of support in this community is to get on and build the school. Although you and PPAG claim otherwise I fail to see any evidence - where is it? Where are all the PPAG supporters they're certainly not making themselves visible in numbers - why is that?

[Bob Jefferson]

Bob,
I see you've been checking up on people to see whether they've got their posters up or not. What's the punishment for non-compliance? Ostricisation? Any pressure being brought to bear on shopkeepers for not putting up the posters? As there was by you when PPAG put up posters some time ago?
How many of the signatures on your petition are over 18?
The disgraceful way these young people have been used in this latest cynical attempt to intimidate PPAG is an absolute betrayal of all our children.

Local shopkeepers are putting their own posters up Betty - they don't have to be coerced. And local parents will note which ones are supporting us. Are you saying that young people below the age of 18 aren't entitled to express their view? You'd better tell Alex Salmond that.

Our children are being betrayed, you're right about that, and if you succeed in delaying their school any longer, neither they nor their parents will ever forgive you.

[tufty]

I am wondering if PPAG have revealed their strong grounds for appeal yet, or if they are waiting until the last minute to do so? Any one heard or willing to share?

[gillian]

Seriously, you lot should learn to grow up. I'd be ashamed of my children if they spoke about people the way you do. It's infantile and rude.

Infantile maybe, rude no.

This however ,

"Yes there I go again. I'm surprised you don't speak up for them more given that they make up a large portion of your clientele"

is rude and offensive, I would be very ashamed if my children were to make a comment like that on a public forum.

Rosa you will have to forgive me but I'm not sure who I've offended here (apart from yourself clearly). I'm sure PoP is well aware of who his client group is mostly made up of. As for the clients themselves, while they may not exactly be proud of being poor, I doubt few would deny it.
If I have offended PoP then I'm sorry, because that was not my intention.

Betty, you haven't offended me. I find all your comments about the people who live in the Christians and Magdelene offensive. The fact that you can't see why probably says it all.

[Pal of Porty]

I'm sure PoP is well aware of who his client group is mostly made up of. As for the clients themselves, while they may not exactly be proud of being poor, I doubt few would deny it. If I have offended PoP then I'm sorry, because that was not my intention.

I certainly do know my client base and you are incorrect in assuming that my clients are poor and that most of them come from Magdalene/Christians. You clearly have absolutely no idea about my business (not that I would expect you or indeed others to have) and I suggest it is best for you to leave the topic there as this is a school on the park thread.

No need to to apologise as I am not offended in the least but as I have said before I find your comments extremely patronising towards the population of Magdalene and Christians.

[Porty]

Expect another email circulation log jam from the pcc secretary .. Unable to forward emails due to her cat being attacked in the park was the most recent excuse offered up by the Chaiperson .

I just sprayed my screen with coffee with laughter!!! That has to be a wind up?

I'll see if I can locate the email. I can't recall the issue but I followed protocol and contacted the PCC Secretary and asked her to fwd my email to the other councillors. I knew it was something she wouldn't want discussed but I thought she would still fwd...........I was wrong.

It never happened, so after about a week , I took it upon myself to contact the councillors directly. Cat out of the bag time. One or two councillors took real umbrage at being contacted directly ." How did you get my contact details"- ermmmm "you are a community councillor they are available on the net, to the public".

A few councillors queried why my email had not been forwarded, as per my request The Chair then offered an explanation about the sercretary's cat being attacked in rosefiled park, thereby incapacitating the "forward email" function for the entire CC- I kid you not.

[gillian]

"I suggest it is best for you to leave the topic there as this is a school on the park thread."

You are right PoP, it is mostly me dragging this on, I'll stop now.

PPAG DROP THE APPEAL PLEASE !!!

Back on topic now.

[seashell]

I'll see if I can locate the email. I can't recall the issue but I followed protocol and contacted the PCC Secretary and asked her to fwd my email to the other councillors. I knew it was something she wouldn't want discussed but I thought she would still fwd...........I was wrong.

It never happened, so after about a week , I took it upon myself to contact the councillors directly. Cat out of the bag time. One or two councillors took real umbrage at being contacted directly ." How did you get my contact details"- ermmmm "you are a community councillor they are available on the net, to the public".

A few councillors queried why my email had not been forwarded, as per my request The Chair then offered an explanation about the sercretary's cat being attacked in rosefiled park, thereby incapacitating the "forward email" function for the entire CC- I kid you not.

Okay, first of all, as an animal-lover, I'm sorry about the cat.

But the rest is so funny - and also so totally tragic! Somebody actually put that in writing? Really?
(Picks self up off floor)
You couldn't make this stuff up, could you?
No, rewind. Of course we could. just look at some of the 'claims' that keep being voiced on here - like houses being built on the golf course , or how the Big W site would be better as a school location...
It would be quite funny, if it wasn't quite so sad.

Anyway, back to the topic in hand: any news about either what the grounds of appeal are or how PPAG are going to fund their appeal?

[Pal of Porty]

Portobello is sorely divided by the school issue..........

No it's not - It is a community being held to ransom by a small minority of well educated NIMBY's hiding under the banner of environmentalism.