"Sort it out yourselves" (PPAG win legal appeal)

[Epykat]

Still don't think snobbishness has anything to do with it. Most people would, and do fight tooth and nail to get what they believe their children are entitled to and deserve. A refurbished PHS wouldn't fulfil either. Snobbishness just doesn't come into it.

If I'm picking you up right, you're saying that a refurb of however many millions of pounds to bring the current school bang up to scratch still wouldn't be good enough because.... what? It's second hand? I don't understand your thinking, unless you just don't want your kids in a tower block - even a brand spanking new refurbished one with larger classrooms and no NIMBYS?

Other examples of just this kind of thing (a 9 storey educational building) are coming in at approximately £10m and a turnaround time of one year. So a ball park figure of £10m for the tower and another say, £10m for the rest and there's a potential to save maybe £20m to spend on other schools.

[Epykat]

No-one is interested in your consolation prizes. Our kids deserve better than that.

I think you're picking me up wrong Bob.

This Plan B proposal is not being given away as a gift to your children by me. It is a viable proposal, as was requested by the Council, which might just allow your child to not have to walk up 8 flights of stairs every day should you not get your school where you want it. She might never get to see the bunny rabbits in the 'park' but she would get the benefit of stonking panoramic views.

Whether your kids 'deserve' any more than my children 'deserved' is neither here nor there. My children probably would have loved the opulent surroundings of Fettes but in the real world they went to PHS and made the very best of it.

Time you realised that you can't always get what you want and sometimes you have to make the best of what you have, so I'd get working on a Plan B if I were you, just in case.

[Makaveli]

You come across as quite bitter Epycat. I haven't seen anyone anywhere say that a refurb is 'not up to scratch' as you put it.

What I think the people of Porty realise is that we have the chance to create a superb school for everyone in the community to benefit from - whether that be by their kids attending that school or by the increase in people wanting live in Porty because of what a state of the art school can offer.

[Epykat]

You come across as quite bitter Epycat. I haven't seen anyone anywhere say that a refurb is 'not up to scratch' as you put it.

I'm not in the least bit bitter. What do I have to be bitter about? My kids have gone through 6 years in the current building so really, I shouldn't actually give a toss whether or not other people's children have to tolerate the school in the state it's in, but I do.

What you should realise is that, the way things stand, you don't have the chance to create anything! That might change, but if it doesn't then you're up the proverbial shit creek. We were asked for proposals, however radical, and I've put mine forward. What's your Plan B?

[Makaveli]

Oooh bitter!!! So your kids missed out on the chance of going to a new PHS eh? Sounds like the green eyed monster has reared it's very ugly head.

[Epykat]

Oooh bitter!!! So your kids missed out on the chance of going to a new PHS eh? Sounds like the green eyed monster has reared it's very ugly head.

My kids missed out?? My kids left PHS long, long before any of this was even thought of - so bang goes that theory eh?

[Makaveli]

Alot of theories don't work out do they? Like schools on stilts or offshore schools.....

[Epykat]

Alot of theories don't work out do they? Like schools on stilts or offshore schools.....

Or the theory that I'm bitter because my now adult children 'missed out' on a theoretical school? So, what's your Plan B?

[Epykat]

While I'm waiting, I'll just point out that my kids had as good an education as they deserved in large, airy classrooms with fantastic and inspiring views of hills on one side and the sea on the other, with up to date equipment and brilliant teachers. They didn't suffer once.

[Makaveli]

So you are too old to have kids going to the new school so why do you 'give a toss' about the school being built on Porty Park?

Is it the loss of green space (shown to be a farcical ploy by Park Avenue residents) or do you want everyone else's kids to 'tolerate the school in the state it is in' as you had to?

[Betty Windsor]

So you are too old to have kids going to the new school so why do you 'give a toss' about the school being built on Porty Park?

Is it the loss of green space (shown to be a farcical ploy by Park Avenue residents) or do you want everyone else's kids to 'tolerate the school in the state it is in' as you had to?

I though Epy was suggesting a refurb, in which case it would indicate that she does not want everyone else's kids to tolerate the school in the state that hers had to.

[Epykat]

So you are too old to have kids going to the new school so why do you 'give a toss' about the school being built on Porty Park?

Is it the loss of green space (shown to be a farcical ploy by Park Avenue residents) or do you want everyone else's kids to 'tolerate the school in the state it is in' as you had to?

Is there an upper age limit to this forum then? Hang on son til I get my teeth in.........

I give a toss because I am entitled to, just as you are entitled to. You've obviously not been reading any of my posts properly otherwise you would have noticed that I am in favour of refurbishing the current school. Refurbishing means bringing it up to, and probably well over, the standard of a new build but at less cost and probably faster.

PS - I'm so old that I didn't have to tolerate the school in a run down state because it was almost new when I went there - and I don't live anywhere near Park Avenue either

[Porty]

Alot of theories don't work out do they? Like schools on stilts or offshore schools.....

Or the theory that I'm bitter because my now adult children 'missed out' on a theoretical school? So, what's your Plan B?

Are thers people out there who belive you are bitter because your own kids missed out?

I know we have our differences, theres no way I would condone or believe that.

[gillian]

Still don't think snobbishness has anything to do with it. Most people would, and do fight tooth and nail to get what they believe their children are entitled to and deserve. A refurbished PHS wouldn't fulfil either. Snobbishness just doesn't come into it.

If I'm picking you up right, you're saying that a refurb of however many millions of pounds to bring the current school bang up to scratch still wouldn't be good enough because.... what? It's second hand? I don't understand your thinking, unless you just don't want your kids in a tower block - even a brand spanking new refurbished one with larger classrooms and no NIMBYS?

Other examples of just this kind of thing (a 9 storey educational building) are coming in at approximately £10m and a turnaround time of one year. So a ball park figure of £10m for the tower and another say, £10m for the rest and there's a potential to save maybe £20m to spend on other schools.

So, just for the record it doesn't effect my children either. And just for the record I don't think Epykat is sounding bitter.
The tower, in my opinion, is unacceptable on the grounds that it is nigh on impossible to get 1400+ children around it safely. I didn't attend this school so have no direct experience, just what my children have told me. The "stair crushes" as you will know, really do happen. Not safe full stop.
I know nothing of refurbishment and recreation of space but I can't see how you would create bigger classrooms,
unless you have fewer.
This could go on and on and what I am questioning isn't really part of the main argument, but I am genuinely at a loss to know where the snobbish element comes in. The shortcomings of a tower block in which to educate 1400 children are nothing to do with the socially acceptable.

[Bob Jefferson]

This is all just distraction tactics. PPAG would like us to abandon a school on the park and consider alternatives, just as they would like us to blame the Council for the mess we are in. PPAG would like to divide us and weaken our resolve. They know very well that the park is not 'safe' and remains the preferred site. The facts remain. We have a site, we have everything in place to go ahead and build the school that the majority want. The most recent judgment went against us and now we must explore the various options that exist to overcome this problem. That is what we need to concentrate on. Let's not waste our time and energy in these petty squabble that are of no importance or relevance.

[Epykat]

This is all just distraction tactics. PPAG would like us to abandon a school on the park and consider alternatives, just as they would like us to blame the Council for the mess we are in. PPAG would like to divide us and weaken our resolve. They know very well that the park is not 'safe' and remains the preferred site. The facts remain. We have a site, we have everything in place to go ahead and build the school that the majority want. The most recent judgment went against us and now we must explore the various options that exist to overcome this problem. That is what we need to concentrate on. Let's not waste our time and energy in these petty squabble that are of no importance or relevance.

Hey Winston - you should have started that speech with "We will fight them on the beaches........"

or maybe "Look into my eyes....."

*Edited to include a realisation of what Bob is really trying to do...*

[Epykat]

Alot of theories don't work out do they? Like schools on stilts or offshore schools.....

Or the theory that I'm bitter because my now adult children 'missed out' on a theoretical school? So, what's your Plan B?

Are thers people out there who belive you are bitter because your own kids missed out?

I know we have our differences, theres no way I would condone or believe that.

And anyway, it's Betty who's the bitter old witch, I'm just the bullshitting liar so wrong on all counts!

[rathbone]

Would the people who have never worked in a school, know nothing about the workings of a school please stop making statements outwith their knowledge. .

Careful there Sceptic. Epykat worked at PHS for years, knows the school inside out and is fully conversant with its workings. If you're not careful she'll start taking offense and then where will you be?

(Having just re-read that last sentence, don't take it as sarcasm: she really did work there for years and does know what she's talking about)

[Epykat]

Would the people who have never worked in a school, know nothing about the workings of a school please stop making statements outwith their knowledge.

But I have worked in a school and know very well the workings of a school, and what's more it was the very school we're discussing.

Regardless of what happens to or in the school, everything will have to be packed up - if only to be skipped. So that's not really a viable argument.

[Porty]

I missed out 1 question entirely from 8 in my arithmetic. O level .Miss Cooke was raging. Still managed an A tho.

[Porty]

Don't forget the Blackpool tower scoop

[Porty]

I'm off to the ormelie for a pint.

[Scoop]

Don't forget the Blackpool tower scoop

Different kind of education, Porty, but no harm in adding it into the mix. Oh, and what about the old Dick Vet building? I like this game, it's like Trumps. With Towers. Wait a minute.......

[Scoop]

To those who doubt me

This is just getting funnier and funnier.

[Porty]

Amazing -in the ormelie I get talking to Davey the manager for the last 15 years or more. The phone goes and it's Carlsberg. He's been asked to move to Taiwan to design and build their state of the art manufacturing plant.

Then I get talking to Georgie a dental nurse who washes her hair several times a week. She gets a text from the Garnier lab asking if she would like to take on full reponsibilty for coming up with a formula for their new shampoo.

Then I saw Craig, who is a porter at cockenzie power station.I was too frightened to talk to him.

[Epykat]

I'm off to the ormelie for a pint.

Was that an invite? If so, we're busy.

[Epykat]

If you have any questions, ask Bill Nicolson at PHS.......

I'll make a note to do that at my next family gathering seeing as how we're related (sorry, Makaveli, I do keep coming up with these family ties don't I?)

[Epykat]

I missed out 1 question entirely from 8 in my arithmetic. O level .Miss Cooke was raging. Still managed an A tho.

You missed out one question entirely from here.......what did the condition reports carried out by experts say?

[Scoop]

Re the whole refurb debate. I am not sure it is actually viable to repair that building, even then can we please get off the old 'it was ok when i went there' years ago. In the 70's I had a fab wee Austin 1100. Great little car, a bit knackered now but could be patched and still be good. Yes, but I need to drive around Edinburgh everyday now and have a Kia Venga because it meets the requirements of my needs. My little Austin 1100 was fun but would be no good to meet my needs in the 21st Century. Same applies to the existing PHS building.
.

In 1972 VW made a really great little car. I drive everywhere in it. It has been properly maintained.

[Epykat]

Please give the the park it's proper title, as acknowledged from at least 1900.

Will that make a difference to whether or not the school goes there?

[seanie]

No, but the name seemed to concern you a great deal. So you could try to get it right.

Just a suggestion.

[Porty]

Rosa, I am genuinely interested to know where I can access all this information provided by these experts. I would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction.

People can say what they like but you are a trooper. Some 35 years have passed since you left PHS and you are still trying to hone your misinterpretation skills. Respect is due.

[Porty]

And sorry Seanie, for some of us, Portobello Park will always be the Golfie. We've been calling it that for generations and most of us only realised in the last few years that that was not its real name.

Years of being wrong, then you are put straight and before we know it, you are back to being wrong again.

Honestly, the two of you (Epy and Betty) you know less than f**k all about school design. I'd say about as much as my next door neighbour; Sam, a spaniel.

Give it up. A refurb aint gonna happen, it didn't even make the long list of 15 or so options. A refurb is the spawn of Archie Burns, who I think is an ok bloke, but its bonkers, a complete non-starter. These days schools are rarely, if ever, more than 4 storeys. That's not because there's suddenly a lot more land available, quite the opposite.
It is because it is no longer deemed ideal, progress has been made, things have moved on.
Think about your 1972 VW, Epykat. Did VW stick with that same design and spec or have they changed it radically, several times?

I sincerley hope you never have a head on collision in that car, wouldn't it be nice to have an airbag if you did? (and I don't mean Betty in the passenger seat)

[Porty]

You are right rathbone.I just gave Sam a chocolate digestive.And I swear he said refurb. Although he quickly followed up with what sounded like "park"

[Paxetamor]

Porty, I hope you don't live anywhere near the golfie. Are you nobbling Sam with your chocolate biscuits? Chocolate's poisonous to dogs, don't you know? One down. How many more to go? Apparently none, if you listen to the tripe spouted on this forum. On the one hand you have it down as a dogs toilet, covered in shit (I've still to work out where, outside, isn't used as a toilet by dogs, I'm sure someone will let me know of by-laws regarding the subject) and on the other, it's never used, nobody there, ever. I was there yesterday and I wasn't alone, I didn't feel the need to rush back on here and report it. It's boring
All questions asked above are rhetorical.