Woodwares closing / Sainsburys coming to Portobello

[Puerto bella]

There should be an audit of empty shop units on our High St, particularly in relation to the retail policies in the local plan.
Sometimes the reasons for not being let are not entirely to do with competition. Floor plates, rental value, positioning are all important factors. We also have a situation where you have owners of the retail units seeking unrealistic rents plus the quality of the unit available. Of all the empty units, particularly long term empty we should be asking the questions about floorspace, ownership, terms and conditions and how those owners are contributing to the health of our High St. The Mary Portas Review is worth a read in terms of ideas on looking at the health of the High St. Portobello isnt doing too badly though.

[Puerto bella]

People might be interested to know that when I was asking these questions of the council I was informed that Scotmid was one of the main owners. Yet to see docs that illustrate this. We may find that our High St market is 'controlled' by our existing supermarket.

[Maria]

People might be interested to know that when I was asking these questions of the council I was informed that Scotmid was one of the main owners. Yet to see docs that illustrate this. We may find that our High St market is 'controlled' by our existing supermarket.

Isn't the shop advertising that it is the ideal Subway franchise opportunity and which has been lying empty for ages, owned by Scotmid? I seem to remember something about Scotmid being the owner, when the Post Office moved from there into Scotmid.

[minnie1957]

Yes they have been replaced Bob but as you say yourself, replaced with eating establishments. How many more cafes can one High Street have? Deli194 has told me that this is the worst year they have had for 18 years. There can be such a situation as too much competition as the Deli194 will tell you. As for Woodwares, yes they did compete with B&Q for a very long time, they also strongly resisted any superstores coming into the area and I do beleive they meant it. Sadly,I cannot beleive that if you have a long standing family run business which is raking the money in and you have let the world know you are against the superstores in the High Street you would then accept an offer from Sainsburys no matter how good it was. I beleive that the business was not making the money it used to make. None of the small shops are. Dont get me wrong, I think it is all very sad and I wish we could keep the High Street like it used to be, full of small busy independant shops who are making a good living, but I do feel that we have to accept that these days are over. Even the Charity shops are screaming out for donations which they used to receive on a daily basis. The stocks in charity shops are low because people are now taking thier clothes and other items to the shop thats pays them for the goods. Who would, with small children to feed, hand over items for nothing if they can get paid for them? When even charity shops are closing thier doors we have to accept the big boys or our High Street will have nothing.

[wangi]

Sadly,I cannot beleive that if you have a long standing family run business which is raking the money in and you have let the world know you are against the superstores in the High Street you would then accept an offer from Sainsburys no matter how good it was. I beleive that the business was not making the money it used to make.

Or something else to consider is that we are talking about Sainsbury's Local which is a convenience store format and size. It's not a supermarket.

[minnie1957]

But it is owned by the supermarket chain therfore it can run at a loss for a very long time, their big stores will cover the loss until the lease runs out if they are tied to one. Small independant traders in this situation just run into debt and are eventually locked out of the shop, their credit is ruined and they are paying back for a very long time. Sadly its a risk that the small trader is looking less and less likely to take.

[Pal of Porty]

Competition between takeaways must be fierce but in terms of eating in, I cannot remember having it so good in Porty. We now have Chinese, Indian, Spanish and bistro/pub type fare in the Espy and Skylark. Mrs PoP and I have definitely stayed in Porty to dine more often as a result.

[Bob Jefferson]

If some businesses are struggling, others are thriving and it's usually clear to see why on both counts. Businesses fail for many reasons other than unfair competition from superstores. Do we have too many cafes? The Beach House Cafe is expanding and it certainly isn't because they are cheaper than the others. Of course, the recession is playing its part. We are looking for quality and service but we also want good value for money and that represents a challenge to any business. The market sorts itself out and, generally, only the best survive.

The High Street being dominated by a few large companies who are charging unreasonable rentals, that's another story and I agree that it's scandalous that the former Post Office has been lying empty for so long.

[Sceptic]

If my memory serves me, Subway runs on a franchise, basically, they are waiting for someone to walk up, with the readies, and pay for the right to use the name Subway and their products.This was to be the shop where Portobello Churches were going to use as a drop in centre and cafe. It might just come to nought when the new PHS is built on Milton Road.

[malcolmfraser]

It's interesting to read that Sainsbury's "seek to work with local traders" and "complement[] the specialist retailers that already operate in these areas"

How would that work - would they e.g. not stock fresh fish so they don't compete with the fishmongers? Ditto for meat so they don't take business from Findlays? Call me a cynic but I can't imagine Sainsbury's operating that way.

[minnie1957]

I also feel that Edinburgh Council let the people of Portobello down badly, traders and residents. At Christmas the street decorations are very poor. One tree and a few light up ornaments slung on lamposts and buildings. The one that is attached to no 95 High Street has never worked! Every year its erected and every year it fails to light up, this has happened for the last 6 years! They are blue/white lights, there is nothing festive like red or yellow. There is no other shoping area of Edinburgh or midlothian that has such a sparce Christmas. I see more festive decorations from the bus on street lamposts on my way into Mayfield. The children on the bus squeak and squeal with delight. Never ever heard that in Portobello.
Edinburgh Council removed the last ornate victorian lamposts from Portobello and then erected them in the Ocean Terminal! (I now cannot get a direct bus from Joppa to the WGH because that bus now goes to Ocean Terminal as do most bus's nowadays because the council owns ocean terminal)
Small shops are pulled apart by the council at great expense to the trader because the shop is the wrong colour, the sign is too big, the shutters are ugly....the list goes on and on....to paint the shop bright red is a definate no no, unless you are semi-chem, they are allowed, but then again they are owned by scotmid. This does make you wonder just how much say Scotmid have in Portobello.

[Puerto bella]

Do the council own Ocean Terminal?

[Pal of Porty]

Some traders have even had to put up with a (ex) local councillor report them for a breach of use before it was even possible for him to know what the empty shop/new business was going to be!

[Puerto bella]

(I now cannot get a direct bus from Joppa to the WGH because that bus now goes to Ocean Terminal as do most bus's nowadays because the council owns ocean terminal)
.

Cant do the link but BBC web site on 24th Jan 2012 reported:

Forth Ports has announced the sale of its flagship shopping centre, Ocean Terminal, in Leith.

The 420,000 sq ft centre was bought by real estate investor Resolution Property for an undisclosed sum.

[Lima]

The council do not own ocean terminal and from my recollection they never have. It is owned by a fund within the resolution fund management stable and they purchased it from forth ports.

[wangi]

admin: Earlier this evening I was hand delivered a request to remove a post earlier in this thread since it was "a blatant lie". This post by Stephen Mcintyre, which has been pretty much universally ignored, was being referred to:

lucky there won't be a campaign as Pcats already gave their funds away to viridor and ppag.

I'm certain the request came from a PCATS campaigner/board, so I'm happy to take their word on it and clarify that Portobello Campaign Against The Superstore have not given money to these groups. This has also been added to the original post, and the content struck-through.

However I will not censor or otherwise remove the post since I do not believe it is a blatant lie, with any malicious intent.

I have also heard a similar story in Portobello, and without clear information to the contrary it is easy to understand why it is doing the rounds, especially given the somewhat homogenous membership of many of these groups. When was PCATS' last AGM; what was discussed; where are the minutes; who are the board; was there surplus money; has anything been donated to any group; what's the mandate to oppose this development? Clarity & transparency please! I have supported PCATS in the past, and know none of the answers.

[seanie]

Have you checked their web-site?

[wangi]

Ah yes, I had forgotten about that!

Anyway what I do know about PCATS is in their constitution, attached. Will be requesting minutes from recent meetings.

[seanie]

I wonder in which two public places they advertise the public meetings they must hold to comply with their constitution?

[Pal of Porty]

PCATS issued a questionnaire (it was in Kitchener's for example) asking for ideas of what they should do with their surplus funds and also released an article in the Portobello Reporter. Here is an extract from the PCC Minutes way back in 2009:

"Diana Cairns gave an update on PONGS fundraising. There had been no objections, following the article in the Portobello Reporter, to the suggestion for PCATS to donate some of its residual funds to the campaign PLI funds"

Let them try and get a line through that one admin!

[gillian]

Surely uncertainty around this issue couldn't be more simple to rectify? For years there has been discussion about surplus funds and if they did exist , what has happened to them. All that has to happen is for PCATs to put the required information into the public domain by whichever means they deem best. End of story....maybe

[Porty]

I did confuse matters by missing out the word "campaign" after Viridor. No way I was suggesting PCATS gave money to Viridor. The point is: PCATS intended giving away some or all of the money, which was donated to prevent a superstore opening on the Bailyfield site. it is a matter of public record.

The group has very littel transparency, they were left with around £3.5k from the Superstore campaign, which concluded in mid- 2006. Six years on, the general public, those who donated, have little or no information to tell them where the money is or how much is left?

From memory PCATS spent about 80% of their funds on consultants, they used to have basic accounts on their website.

PCATS have showed willing to donate to their pet causes, such as the Viridor Campaign ,Planning Democracy. and personally I wouldn't rule out the Hovercraft or the campaign against BL Developments. (I don't believe they would have stooped as low as the application in Bellfield Lane or Anne and Belle's)
They've sold the goalie. Surely, they cannot be suprised that there is widely held believe they have donated to PPAG?

[urchaidh]

admin: Earlier this evening I was hand delivered a request to remove a post earlier in this thread since it was "a blatant lie".

If only the same rigorous devotion to seeking out and exorcising blatant lies and untruths on the internet could be applied on the PPAG website.

I'd suggest that, rather than being struck through, we should follow the example of PPAG's website and present suspect phrases in bold, red text, [admin: edited]

[SoupDragon]

Minnie I've found if you can get to Milton Road or Edinburgh Rd at Musselburgh there's an East Lothian bus 113 that runs to WGH, still not the same as the 129 though.


As for Scotmid owning a lot of the High Street I mind when I was a lot younger the whole run of shops from around Mikes Tackle shop to the funeral directors at corner of Pipe Street was co op, furnishings, clothing, butchers shoes I think.
Not sure if the sold them or still hold the leases.
The top of the building at the corner of Pipe Street has some co operative carvings.
There was also another co op grocery where Costcutters is now if I remember correctly.


And of course there will soon be a Co op bank in the High Street when they take over LloydsTSB

[gillian]

Sorry to appear naive but if the money collected was partly from public donations then there must be open records available?

[Pal of Porty]

There was also another co op grocery where Costcutters is now if I remember correctly. And of course there will soon be a Co op bank in the High Street when they take over LloydsTSB

Not to mention the Co-op at the top of King's Road which is now JLS security

[Porty]

Sorry to appear naive but if the money collected was partly from public donations then there must be open records available?

When it comes to PCATS, PPAG and your expectation of open records. I'm afraid you are naive.

Not sure about PONG's-they collected loads of cash, did they publish accounts. (not suggesting PONG's donated to PPAG)

[seanie]

Come now, no need for such cynicism.

I see from PCATS' constitution that minutes must be made available to any interested party, so I'm sure we can clear everything up with one simple e-mail.

[Porty]

After making donations to whichever causes they choose, PCATS likely still have quite a bit of cash,which was donated in good faith (including by me), for one purpose; to combat a superstore application at Baileyfield.

PCAT's have asked for no mandate from us to "battle" the Sainsbury's Local on the High Street. If they did, judging by Geoff's survey, only an insignificant minority are against the idea.

Sainsbury's local is a different cause altogether. PCAT's have no right to use the funds for this purpose- it may as well be the school, hovercraft or whatever.

[magbagpuss]

Good news , just called Woodies to see when they were closing cos I want to make them some cupcakes n a wee buffet to say Thank You. It could be as much as a year before all this takes place , happy days for the moment . That truly gives the staff members a good chance to get an alternative job that they will like and not just taking one in a panic. So happy for them and selfishly for us ! There is a lot of skills and advanced knowledge through them there doors . A reprieve for the moment

[seanie]

Time enough to plan for a replacement hardware shop?

[jb5370]

That's good news magbagpuss - they were a bit vague when I asked them last week!

[Puerto bella]

or to measure the fuss before submitting on a bigger site?

[seanie]

But where in Portobello would they find a bigger si......?




Oh.

[seanie]

I doubt PPAG needed funds of any other groups. I'm pretty sure they got most of their money from people round the park who got suckered in by the nonsense about housing on the golf course and the threat to the value of their homes. Remember the e-mail?

All donations are welcome no matter how small but the smaller the amounts the more donors we need. For instance £80,000 equals 800 residents donating £100 or it could mean 80 people donating £1,000. To put it in context, £1,000 is less than 0.5% of values of properties adjacent to the Park. Time to contact potential donors is short as we do not have time to raise funds through normal channels.

I think that's how they raised enough money to fund their legal challenge, as well as covering the cost of their fund-losing fun runs.