Edinburgh Council Election 2012: Portobello/Craigmillar

[Grunk]

Not going to vote this time, didn't even bothering to register.

In the past, my vote has never made a difference, and putting a number on a piece of paper once every 5 years is hardly democracy. I guess once candidates stop, towing the party line or evangelising their own personal politics, and actually start representing the people they are supposed to represent, then it becomes worthwhile (also it means that it shouldn't who you vote for the ends are the same, it's just the negotiator that is different).

In the mean time, if I haven't register I am less likely to be called up for jury duty.

[storky]

I am surprised to hear people saying because they "left the womb" singing the red flag they can only vote Labour. ....

Agreed! I'm also surprised people vote for their preferred candidate based on being male or female. I personally vote for who I think is the best candidate regardless of sex.

[Sceptic]

Storky, what do you do when ALL the candidates make two short planks look intelligent!

Personally, I vote Monster Raving Looney, you know it makes sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lg1726]

Move to Ward 10 and you could get the following:

Jenny Dawe - Scottish Liberal Democrats
Paul Godzik - The Labour and Co-operative Party Candidate
Sandy Howat - Scottish National Party (SNP)
Phil Hunt - Pirate Party Scotland
William David Mitchell Macadam - UK Independence Party (UKIP)
Melanie Main - Scottish Green Party
Mark McInnes - Scottish Conservative and Unionist

[Jopparox]

Think its so sad when people cant be bothered to vote. So many people fought so hard for it. Of course its not perfect but when you have REALLY crap councillors you know about it. It is pretty thankless task (I for one would not do it..) so I feel obliged to get off my backside and down to the polling station. We'd fight for it if it was taken away from us! And not that long ago that my family had no vote coz of where they lived and I am sure many Porty people are in the same situation... recent memories. Come on you lot- even if we dont have a pirate party candidate you can put one number down surely! As someone here has said- its only every 5 years or so...

[lg1726]

I'm sure if there was a porty pirate party that would do it! Like you Jopparox - i will be voting and it may well be just the one candidate, but i am just about to make my way to the polling station now. My grandmother chained herself to railings in Dundee to allow me the right to vote. She worked in munitions factories in WW1 when the men were at the front, only to be relegated to the kitchen sink when it was over and she was a feisty, politically active woman who would have given me hell and more if i did not use the vote she and her suffragette sisters campaigned and died for! So I'll be in the little booth in the next 30mins or so!

[jamiek]

I ended up voting Peter maccoll 1 Maureen child 2 Bridgman 3 Manson 4 I was disappointed to learn no one was opposing the theft of common good land. There really should have been a referendum on that issue they all knew they would lose and so it was a stitch up as far as I am concerned. I was gona write f u on the ballot and I was close to it but then managed to pick four knowing that sum1 wil be elected so least worst should b chosen. Although I wish I had stood on a save the park stance. I think I might stand in future elections. For this one though Peter maccoll seems like he has some good ideas judging by his blog even though he supports the theft of common good land. Maureen child is always quick to help when people get in touch with her so that is good even though her party is incompetent and she will be liable to be whipped come the big decisions. I chose snp 3 and 4 purely because of their party as they have not impressed me as candidates and at least I can trust that the snp wil whip them effectively when it comes to votes because the two snp I cud not vote higher and other candidates I could not vote for because I know nothing about them. I tried google and found little info that cud inform my view.

[seanie]

You can't steal what you own.

Common Good assets are owned by the Council.

[Makaveli]

Why would you bother making the effort of going to the polling both just to write F U on the ballot paper?

[jamiek]

Common good land - in care of the council to be used recreationally not developed this trust has been abused the person who donated it wil be spinning in their grave. I was going to write f u to represent the fact that I am disgusted by all the candidates approval of the theft of common good land.

[seanie]

Common Good assets are owned by local authorities who muct adminster them with regard to the interests of the local residents. That was established by the 1973 Local Government (Scotland) Act.

And no, the land wan't donated by anyone. The then City Coucil paid cold hard cash for it. Several million pounds by today's standards.

You've not really been paying attention, have you?

[fresian]

Jamie, you did better than I did. I could only find 2 who I would even consider voting for, and they weren't from the same party, even then I'm not too sure about my second choice.

[Maria]

I used most of my voting preferences and ended up voting for 3 different parties for my first, second and third votes. My first choice vote was an easy one - happily, I didn't have to choose between party political loyalty and the best woman for the job . My second and third votes were based on personal trust of the candidates as individuals, rather than their party allegiance.

I didn't allocate any preference for 2 of the candidates on the list.

[Pal of Porty]

... My first choice vote was an easy one - happily, I didn't have to choose between party political loyalty and the best woman for the job . My second and third votes were based on personal trust of the candidates as individuals, rather than their party allegiance. I didn't allocate any preference for 2 of the candidates on the list.

Ditto.

[seanie]

I managed only 3.

One Independent, one Labour, one SNP.

[wangi]

The results for neighbouring Craigentinny / Duddingston:

Name, party, stage elected
Joan Griffiths, Scottish Labour Party, One
Stefan Tymkewycz, Scottish National Party (SNP), One
Alex Lunn, Scottish Labour Party, Eight

[wangi]

And for Portobello/Craigmillar: Child (Lab), Bridgeman (SNP), Walker (Lab)...

Name, party, stage elected
Maureen Child, Scottish Labour Party, One
Mike Bridgman, Scottish Nation Party (SNP), Six
David Walker, Scottish Labour Party, Eight

The result (audio): http://soundcloud.com/georgewarduk/scot ... election-6

[mr magnolia]

I demand a recount.
And a proper public briefing on how to use your preferences in a preventive manner.
Congrats to MC and Mr B. Surprised at it going to the 6thcasting of the runes. Wonder if that's 'usual'?

[Bazza]

And a proper public briefing on how to use your preferences in a preventive manner.

Indeed. I suspect if some of those so opposed to David Walker had used their preferences to select other candidates with their lower votes, he wouldn't've won. But they haven't posted the full results yet.

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20188/ ... ts_2012/17

[Bazza]

Here's the full data:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/do ... on_results

At stage 7, David Walker beat Peter McColl by 227 votes. At that stage, 981 votes had been dropped because people didn't have a preference.

[SoupDragon]

Would anyone have voted for the penguin if he'd stood here?

Congratulations to Maureen Child and Mike Brigman

[Puerto bella]

In a nut shell - thanks to Maureen's popularity and the way the STV works we've ended up with two decent folk and a crook? Edinburgh Sucks needs updating.

[SoupDragon]

Got to mind that the ward is now bigger than just Portobello, where MC was a councillor before boundary changes, some districts will always vote for party rather than candidate

[Puerto bella]

Am aware of his standing in Craigmillar and that trad labour voters in some areas would vote for a monkey if it had a red rosette on.

[Bazza]

In a nut shell - thanks to Maureen's popularity and the way the STV works we've ended up with two decent folk and a crook?

I don't Think it's the way STV works, but the way people voted. There were some 900 voters who expressed no preference between Peter McColl and Walker.

Having said that, Walker got a lot of first and second preference votes...

[Puerto bella]

Ask Sheila Gilmore and Maureen

[Porty]

In a nut shell - thanks to Maureen's popularity and the way the STV works we've ended up with two decent folk and a crook. .

Spookily similar to last time

[Puerto bella]

LOL

[mr magnolia]

Here's the full data:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/do ... on_results

At stage 7, David Walker beat Peter McColl by 227 votes. At that stage, 981 votes had been dropped because people didn't have a preference.

any chance of an explanation of how the maths works?

I took my voting choice procedure guide as one of the posts on here somewhere that reminded me that sVT is about expressing two preferences - one for who you WANT, and by extension, one for who you DONT want - but you really have to use all your choices to make a difference in the second bit.

Dont understand how the counting works though!

[wangi]

[Bazza]

Here's the full data:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/do ... on_results

At stage 7, David Walker beat Peter McColl by 227 votes. At that stage, 981 votes had been dropped because people didn't have a preference.

any chance of an explanation of how the maths works?

I took my voting choice procedure guide as one of the posts on here somewhere that reminded me that sVT is about expressing two preferences - one for who you WANT, and by extension, one for who you DONT want - but you really have to use all your choices to make a difference in the second bit.

Dont understand how the counting works though!

The main point is that we're electing three councillors, not one. So even if you only like one councillor, and you number them "1", there are still two more to be elected.

As for how the counting works, it's a bit complicated In our case, 7231 votes were cast, all first preferences were added up. There's a quota for winning (a third of the valid votes cast -1808), and Maureen Childs exceeded that quota, so she was elected. Now it gets tricky. The excess votes are moved on to their second preferences. But suppose me and you both put Maureen Childs as our first vote. One of ours could be an extra vote beyond the quota, and one might have been used to reach the quota. So whose second preference do the take? So they take an average of the second preferences, and scale it by how many votes were over the quota. These are then added on to the remaining candidates.

At this stage, no one was over the quota, so the last candidate (Martin Veart) was removed, and the second (or third) preferences from his supporters were distributed. So if you voted Maureen Childs first, Martin Veart second, your third preference would now be used.

Still no-one exceeded the quota, so Norrie Davis was excluded, and again, next preferences were distributed. By this stage there were already 199 votes with no further preference, so those voters were no longer contributing.

Again, no-one was over the quota, so Henry Christian went, and votes redistributed. Now there were 527 votes with no further preference.

Alistair Manson went next, and once the votes for him were redistributed according to the next preference. This time Mike Bridgman reached the quota. The votes over the quota were redistributed. At this point, There were 980 votes with no preference between the two remaining candidates. Peter McColl was on 1203 votes, David Walker was on 1430' and a further 980 expressed no preference. So Peter McColl was knocked out, and David Walker won by default, even though he didn't reach the quota.

Hope that helps!

[Bob Jefferson]

Thanks for your efforts to explain but I'm not sure that even now, with hindsight, I would know who to give my second and third votes to in order to prevent Walker from being elected, bearing in mind I didn't want Manson either.

[mr magnolia]

hmm thanks Bazza, I think!

tell me, at the first time a candidate gets knocked out, does the system average EVEYONES second choice, or as seems to be the case from my reading of your words and the voting figures, just those whose first vote was for MC? And later on, whilst at stage 6 or so, whose 6th preferences are being averaged at that stage?

[wangi]

If you've got a lazy Sunday afternoon planned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_S ... able_Votes

[jamiek]

Seanie, one important point is that it has been acknowledged not only by the council but also by the local community that people are divided on this issue. The democratic thing would be to hold a referendum on the issue. I and most other people say the reason the council did not want a referendum is because they know they would lose.

I have been speaking to my work mates and it is clear that the council have been trying to earn cash by selling public land all over the city, meadow bank stadium at one point, land behind Waverly station and now Porty golf course and former Porty high land. Public opinion is against this. Public opinion also is showing that people really dislike the current council system. The trams fiasco has been the nail in the coffin regarding public trust in the council. Most people now think that our councillors are on the make taking back handers and handing over contracts that line their own pockets.

The fact that only 38% of the Scottish public voted in the council elections raises MASSIVE QUESTIONS OF LEGITIMACY!!!

How can any council elected by a minority of people represent the majority of citizens? The system is broken and needs changed. Scrapping the council system is a must and an alternative is needed. One proposal could be direct democracy which also has it's failings but one thing is for sure the current system lacks legitimacy and any illegitimate political system is destined for failure, one example of the predicted failure is what we are currently seeing corrupt local decisions in the interest of a minority rather than majority.

There are plenty alternative places for Porty high school the empty land beside Holy Rood being one such example. St Francis primary and Niddrie primary joined together well why can't Holy Rood and Porty on the same independent but land sharing basis? There are so many solutions but the current corrupt system will solve nothing.