New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Mark Cameron]

http://www.facebook.com/new.phs.park/po ... 3702236457

Hello, I have just signed your petition. I really appreciate the wording of the petition where it calls for us to re-build our community. I can see from many posts here that there is still a lot of bad feeling on this side of the debate. I totally understand your frustration and I suppose there is still something of a battle to be won. But if the community is to be healed after this divisive experience, one side of the debate is going to have to suck it up and be rather statesman-like about it. To put it bluntly, stop squabbling about being barred from websites etc (or limit this to a private forum) and show us all that you do see the bigger picture. Thank you for bringing your campaign to my attention. Best wishes.

Please listen to the good lady.

L/

But how can one be expected to understand both sides of the debate and ergo 'the bigger picture' when it's not possible to comment or question one of the parties without being banned from their community page?

Why should the fact they're banning people be limited to a private forum and hidden from the wider community? In my mind that's not bitching. By taking the steps they have PPAG are either trying to paint the situation differently to anyone reading their page or are avoiding answering genuine questions from the community they claim to represent.

I'm all for working together to find a solution but it looks to me like PPAG aren't interested in engaging in an open debate with the wider community. Happy to be proved wrong.

[wangi]

Yes; but everyone knows that. It well known that the "Save Porty Park" Facebook site and their website blog is culled of anything not 100% onside. But continually highlighting it we move the discussion away from the core issue (drop the appeal; get it built) and instead on to something much less useful.

It's the same too re Portobello Community Council - there are definitely issues there but best left till later. Majority of people don't care about PCC; don't care about how it represents "us" - but they do want the school built.

That is by far the most important thing - drop the appeal PPAG; get the school built now.

[Paxetamor]

Porty, I didn't ask for general enlightenment, just about what's getting built on Jewel Park. It did make me chuckle though. I'm not surprised you didn't finish your latin phrase: carpe diem, quam minumum credula postero. Not quite what you intended, was it? Anyway, dulce est desipere in loco.

As for the perilous side of Milton Road, I didn't realise you were such a drama queen. Do I have to mention the underpasses again. It'll be you that's not being called a moron soon.

[seashell]

Oh wow -the battle of the latin tags. Sometimes good old english says it best: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

But if we are into latin tags, try this one in relation to your Big W argument: Ignoratio elenchi .

Now, let's get back onto the subject, shall we?

[Makaveli]

Are you still saying that the Big W is a good site?

If you are then I am afraid you are a moron.

[Maria]

Porty, I didn't ask for general enlightenment, just about what's getting built on Jewel Park.

Think it is Scottish Water, upgrading the sewage system for the new houses being built in Craigmillar.

See http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2012/02/1 ... h-surface/

[lg1726]

To Paxetamor - we are talking about teenagers here for the most part, a time in one's live when rebellion is not just common place, but indeed, mandatory! So, how to get 1400 such members of the population going through this f*** you stage of their development to do anything half as sensible as using an underpass is beyond me. Perhaps you have some suggestions, cattle prods, armed guards on watch towers? Even if they did actually use them, can you just begin to imagine what sort of things they might get up to in there!!!???

[Pal of Porty]

......I didn't ask for general enlightenment, just about what's getting built on Jewel Park......

The work is being carried out by Scottish Water (probably on behalf of the Council) to upgrade the sewage system to cope with the new houses being built at Craigmillar. Everything will be returned to as before on completion of the works but I know Edina Hibs were really brassed off to turn up one day and see their 7 a side pitch gone. It will probably take a long time for the pitch to return to how good was before the works but I don't believe anything is being built.

[Maria]

I've always suspected you skip over my posts PoP.

[portygeoff]

...and those that do [want the new school to go on the park] are those that have children who will be educated at Portobello High school.Of these people, a large proportion do not originate from Portobello and could just as quickly move out of the area as they did moving in.(No hard feelings I hope Geoff). My family are from Portobello and my daughter is fifth generation in my family to attend Towerbank primary.

Just seen this. An outrageous slur on both myself and my family. This is the sort of fascist statement I would expect from the EDL/SDL and not a neighbour. I have lived in Portobello for almost 20 years, my wife longer. Our families have been educated in the area. Interesting that my family have been involved in numerous campaigns, activities and community events. I would be hard pushed to recall Sheila's attendance at hardly any of these events, if any. In fact it seems to me that until this became an issue because her grand mother lived opposite the Golf Course she has been more noted for her absence in the community. And as for the 5 generations at Tower Bank, shame that many of then seem to not have then attended a Portobello secondary school, being educated outwith Portobello.

[Sceptic]

Once again, it is getting personal.

Is there any need for this?

One thing that has not been mentioned, why do we not move some pupils up to Castlebrae?

It reduces the need for such a large PHS. The footprint could be reduced, but it woulsd cause outcry by parents whose children would be sent to Castlebrae. At present, Castlebrae has less than 300 pupils in a school designed to take over twice that.

Any comments? All abuse is no problem as I have a very thick hide.

[seashell]

Why don't you write to the council with your idea and suggest they rezone the catchment areas?
Or hey - why not make the new PHS school on the park even bigger, and merge the two schools there?

[seanie]

A replacement for Castlebrae is an integral part of the longer term regeneration plans that will eventually see the local population, and demand for school places, increase significantly over current levels.

At 1400, the proposed PHS is slightly over-sized for current catchment demand (which is closer to 1200) but the school was keen to keep to around 1400 for the curriculum advantages and over the medium term there's a blip I'n school numbers that will increase in-catchment demand.

Look how Towerbank has increased In size over the last 6 years. That will have to work its way through PHS.

[wangi]

Save Porty Park are rehashing the 25% of Portobello's parkland claim again on their Facebook page.

Let me share my working. The boundary in question is naturally the catchment of Portobello High School - not whatever arbitrary line PPAG choose to draw around Portobello (their listed parks do not even coincide with the Portobello Community Council boundary). So, here it is:


(click for PDF version)

In addition to the reasoning above it is inconsistent of PPAG to argue so passionately for Portobello Golf Course; and then simply dismiss it as inaccessible open space not worthy of consideration at a later date.

L/

[wangi]

By the way, does the poster with the hectarage totals take into account the work currently being carried out at Jewel Park? I'm not sure what they're doing there but it seems to cover a large area of the park. I'm sure there is somebody out there that can enlighten me.

Others have answered that. Given it is a temporary situation it has not been taken into account. Likewise Magdalene Glen (apologies if that name offends anyone) and improvements it will gain, as a result of the new PHS, have not been included.

[Paxetamor]

FFS, I was not the one that brought up the Big W again and I wasn't the one to start the latin "war", and yet now I'm stupid. Seashell, you are a piece of work. I neither know or ever want to know who you are, and I hope you think the same. Was it you that wrote that Desperate poem (in every sense of the word)? Were you disappointed not to get a little row of applauding emoticons, is that what's bothering you? Is that English enough?

Thank you to those of you who actually read what I asked and answered.

[Porty]

Why exclude tbe pitches at brunstane and duddingston primaries ? And am I correct in thinking if the golf course was discounted the percentage would beabout 4%?

[seashell]

Oh dear, Paxetamor - upset that you went to all that trouble googling some latin tags only to be upstaged?

FYI: Ignoratio elenchi does not mean stupid. It's a philosophical concept, the fallacy of proving a conclusion not pertinent and it seems to be something you specialise in. It's also known as the red herring concept, which it appears PPAG and it's supporters are resorting to in order to try to divert attention from the real issues at hand here.

You really are terrifically fond of slinging insults around (drama queens, pieces of work) - but guess what? It doesn't bother me in the slightest. All you are doing is exposing yourself further and giving me a real laugh.

[Sceptic]

Why not be like Cato the Elder; "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

[Paxetamor]

Upstaged by what? You? Love the way you assume I've looked everything up on Google, how very 21st century of you. FYI, I know your "tag" doesn't mean stupid, that wasn't what I was referring to. Please don't try to show me up in an attempt to further your agenda(whatever that may be).

[seashell]

Or how about PPAG take these words from Cato to heart?
impedit ira animum, ne possit cernere vernum

[seashell]

Upstaged by what? You? Love the way you assume I've looked everything up on Google, how very 21st century of you. FYI, I know your "tag" doesn't mean stupid, that wasn't what I was referring to. Please don't try to show me up in an attempt to further your agenda(whatever that may be).

any chance of you getting back on topic any time soon?
Or do you prefer to try to distract attention from the topic by slinging mud?
I don't have an agenda, but clearly you do.

[Porty]

what's Latin for 'moron in an underpass' ?

[rmolehusband]

Illegitimi non carborundum!

[Chas]

Illegitimi non carborundum!

[Sceptic]

I do not suppose there are many sites where the jokes are made in latin!

"sic transit gloria mundi" as they used to say in Rome.

[Pal of Porty]

I've always suspected you skip over my posts PoP.

Good one.

It takes me a long time to do a post when I am in the shop as I keep having to serve customers in between writing a little bit at a time. Obviously I should have looked before I posted.

[Porty]

Oh FFS- I gave up latin in 1973- I concede.

[Pal of Porty]

The latin is getting to me too -Cogito, ergo doleo.

[seanie]

Coveted green space must stay

THE present Portobello High School, of which I am a former pupil, was built on parkland and was just over 40 years old when the council decided that a new school needed built.

The council wants to build the new high school on Portobello Park and is not replacing any lost green space.

If the new school is in fact built on the park, in 40 years, when it too needs replaced, where will the next school be built? On the golf course?

My daughter attends Towerbank Primary. The majority of parents who want the school to be built on the park do not originate from Portobello, have no connection with the park or the golf course and don’t care or understand the importance of preserving our beautiful park and golf course.

We need to keep what green space we have left for the physical and mental health of present and future generations.

Mark Dickson, Bellfield Lane, Portobello

[wangi]

This whole "white settler" nonsense, which is being spouted by Mark Dickson, Sheila Coventry and others on the Save Porty Park FB page, is disgusting. Edinburgh is an inclusive and welcoming city with many residents from disparate backgrounds. We're better for it. And Portobello is too.

Or are PPAG going to be packing off Diana Cairns and others amongst their support to where they came from too? Didn't think so...

[Mark Cameron]

Mark Dickson - "The majority of parents who want the school to be built on the park do not originate from Portobello, have no connection with the park or the golf course and don’t care or understand the importance of preserving our beautiful park and golf course."

Two things for Mark Dickson:

Can he let us 'outsiders' know how many generations one has to have stayed in Portobello to understand the importance of the park? I should also remind him that he's referring to a park that 9 times out of 10 is devoid of a living soul when I pass by.

Don't be so patronising to local parents. Most I am certain are very clear on the imporance of environmental issues but are also capable of taking a balanced look at the options available and looking at the greater good.

Drop the Appeal - build the new school now!

[lg1726]

I previously responded on the Save Porty Park FB when the original post went up from Sheila Coventry. However, my post was removed and I was subsequently banned from that page. I sought to point out that my family moved here 12 years ago and we do everything we can to support and sustain the local community and in particular, local shops and traders. We spend our hard earned money in the local shops buying all our fresh meat, fish etc on the high street and always try to employ locally based tradesmen for work. We use the local cafes and restaurants and our young son attends activities and events, all held in places such as the community centre, the leisure centre, the baths etc. I assume that we are not unique and I also assume that the continued contribution to the local economy by us “white settlers” pays dividends for those more “established” residents. So we can contribute to sustaining the vibrancy and economy of the community, which we all benefit from, but we cannot take a principled stance on the site of the school attended by our children? Should the same argument not also apply to those not steeped generations deep in Porty engaged in PPAG? Surely this group must also have “white settlers” within their supporters? Can we assume that they too should be denied their position on this???

[Pal of Porty]

My Dad tells me the Golf Course and Portobello Park were dug up to grow vegetables during the war. Does this qualify me to make comments on the School?

[Sceptic]

Salsify, not qualify!