New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[seashell]

Don't worry, Porty.
After all, as PPAG keep tellig us, they are supported by the *significant majority*, so doubtless they have ample funds.

Only a particularly obtuse group of people would never conceive of the notion they might have to pay for the legal action and think it prudent to ensure they have ample funds before embarking on a very costly exercise. As they are launching an appeal, one can only assume they have the money to fund that, so it is only fair that the Council (and thus the people of Edinburgh) should be able to recoup the monies spent to date. Why should all the risks be one-sided (i.e. funded by the Council)?

Any court action is risky and expensive. That's why it's normally a last resort. PPAG had their day in court, as was their right. They lost the case and now they're going to have to pay. That was always a possibility. Cold hard facts. Why should the people of Edinburgh subsidise their misguided action? PPAG were wrong - and they were proven to be wrong. You don't start court action without being able to afford the costs of losing. Not unless you are particularly ill-advised or so idiotic as to think there is no possibility of losing.

[Porty]

Beautifully put.

One also has to take into account the nature of PPAG s loss. The judgment was damning.A comprehensive dismissal without a single mention of any meritable aspect to their case.

Diana Cairns, on PPAG behalf , tell us their QC advises there are 'strong grouunds for appeal'.This is simply incredible.

You can't and shoukd not either follow nor trust zealots Its the road to wrack and ruin.

[Porty]

BTW Bob- you are playing a blinder. Thank you.

[Bob Jefferson]

[wangi]

Reminder to sign the petition: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/dea ... ppeal.html

Currently 768 signatures.

[Bob Jefferson]

It would be nice if we could make 1000 but there's still a long way to go.

[Bob Jefferson]

[Chas]

Nice to see that the LibDem candidate Martin Veart doesn't share the views of the outgoing member...
https://twitter.com/#!/Martin_Veart/sta ... 2924178432

[Jamesie]

Marilyne MacLaren spoke at today's demo in the park. Interestingly, not only are the council suing for costs, they will also ask the court to ensure that PPAG put up a bond, in advance of their appeal.

Suspected this might occur - known as caution (pronounced kayshon) - the likelihood being no bond, no appeal.

[Jamesie]

The best way of proceeding with the school as soon as possible is to destroy PPAG financially.

Jamesie-In closing or to be precise; when PPAG sat down, our Counsel requested that a decision on expenses should be deferred, not sure of the implications?

Difficult to say why without being there to see the context unfortunately.

[Bob Jefferson]

[Betty Windsor]

Not quite the mass demonstration you were hoping for I guess. I think if you are hoping to persuade PPAG to drop the case by any other means than violence, you might start to think about some kind of charm offensive.
Good luck.

[Porty]

Wrong guess.

Luck, persuasion , violence (wtf?) and charm don't come into it.

Gloves are off, PPAG see it through or choke to death on their own bullshit. OR see it through, choke to death on their own bullshit and fork out £150k. The choice is theirs and theirs alone.Its roosting time.

You mention a charm offensive and one does wonder if the few at the PPAG core are self-charming. They surely must crave love from somewhere ? I find the idea quite offensive, disturbing even. Must be lonely at the bottom

There does appear to be some form of phsycological trauma prevailing. Perhaps they've been hurt in the past?

If that is the case it should stand them in good stead for the very near future. They can't win.

[seanie]

Not quite the mass demonstration you were hoping for I guess. I think if you are hoping to persuade PPAG to drop the case by any other means than violence, you might start to think about some kind of charm offensive.
Good luck.

Violence? Does a samba band count as violence?

I fear you may have lost whatever tenuous grip you had on reality Gillian.

[joeshmoe]

Not quite the mass demonstration you were hoping for I guess. I think if you are hoping to persuade PPAG to drop the case by any other means than violence, you might start to think about some kind of charm offensive.
Good luck.

Are you really prepared to pay what will likely be well over £300k to fund two appeals, for a case you wont win, all for a delay of two years and the loathing of a whole community?

Really?

I suspect in the cold light of day , and the harsh realities of the finances, you wont be

[Porty]

Sean, perhaps Batty has a point. Maybe we should have softened PPAG up first with the junior guitar orchestra.

[Bob Jefferson]

Now that was funny.

[Bob Jefferson]

Please distribute, print and display this poster in your window, in local shops and around Portobello.

drop.pdf

(16.8 KiB) Downloaded 358 times

[seashell]

Not quite the mass demonstration you were hoping for I guess. I think if you are hoping to persuade PPAG to drop the case by any other means than violence, you might start to think about some kind of charm offensive.
Good luck.

Gillian: let's look at the facts
PPAG lost the judicial review.
Lady Dorrian ruled on mora but also said that appropriation was legal.
The council are pursuing them for costs.
The council are now requesting that PPAG put up a bond before the appeal goes ahead.
The council's costs to date are in the region of £75,000.
An appeal is estimated to double this, as stated Ms McLaren.
It's reasonable to assume PPAG have already incurred equivalent costs.
That puts the bill to date at £150,000 for PPAG, with the possibility of this rising to £300,000 if they lose the appeal.

Many people view the tactics of PPAG as being bullying and with their core reason a profound case of NIMBY-ism at its very worst.

The rest of the community has shown its support for the school, including a very successful rally - done at a time when many people were actually at work, so could not turn out to show their support.

My own personal opinion is that as the economic reality hits hard, PPAG will withdraw. I base this on the assumption that they are willing to gamble with the futures of our children, but not with their own financial futures. THey are willing to spend the Council's money (which is derived from the people of Edinburgh) in pursuing a pointless action when their legal arguments were found to have no basis in law, but when they are asked to recompense this, there are cries of 'foul'?

So it is now time to 'put up, or shut up', in terms of the appeal.
Show me the money, PPAG! All £300k of it.

[gillian]

I'm not keeping up I know, but where does violence come into it? I'm serious Betty, who was being violent and where?

[joeshmoe]

How long will the Court take to ask for this bond? Weeks, months?

You know whatever happens they will just leave it until the absolute last minute, just wonder when that might be

[seashell]

I'd suggest the best course of action would be to ask Councillor McLaren to keep us informed as to how proceedings are going.

[Makaveli]

Mrs Makaveli and the youngest Makavelian made it along to the protest yesterday and said that it was very good and doesn't remember seeing any violence at all.

Maybe Batty can enlighten us as to how this violence manifested itself?

[Makaveli]

BTW - good to see you back Seashell

[seashell]

Thank you!

[seashell]

not sure if anyone else has posted this link to the article on the bbc news page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-17560782

[seanie]

There's an aspect that may be under appreciated.

There are other schools requiring work, including St John's. The Scottish Government will soon be releasing capital investment funds that Local Authorities can bid for.

If Portobello High School doesn't go ahead soon, the Council may not be able to bid for more money. Unless the contract is signed and the funding formally committed, they may have too much money allocated to capital investment to qualify for any more.

An appeal won't just delay PHS, it could delay work to schools across Edinburgh.

[Chas]

An appeal won't just delay PHS, it could delay work to schools across Edinburgh.

Alternatively, while the appeal goes on, the money allocated to the New PHS is spent on maintaining the crumbling wreck of a building and/or other schools in need, so when PPAG finally give in there will be nothing left to build our hard fought school with!

[Pal of Porty]

A relevant point Seanie but it will obviously have no bearing on PPAG. They have already trancended the line of rationalality and are now psychotically pursuing an appeal. Don't forget this is the group that only yesterday were telling everyone that houses are going on the golf course and that they have a test case important for the rest of Scotland. Anyone with a couple of brain cells can tell you that the golfie is common good land and there are already legal precedents in both Scotland and England.

It is extremely difficult to think of one single aspect of their campaign that has been authentic and this is just more factually incorrect fantasy from the PPAG factory.

[Bob Jefferson]

[Bob Jefferson]

From today's EN:

Mums, dads and kids unite to tell park group: let us build our school

[Betty Windsor]

I'm not keeping up I know, but where does violence come into it? I'm serious Betty, who was being violent and where?

To the best of my knowledge Rosa there has been no actual violence but the talk of lining people up and shooting them sounds threatening to me.
I also feel that threatening to go to someone's door in a mob is bullying.

[Betty Windsor]

I see from the video that cllr Child is vowing to fight to get the existing site turned back into to green space.
Really Maureen? Have you forgotten that meeting in March 2010 when you voted at full council in support of a report which stated the council were going to sell the school site for £3.9 Million?
That was when everyone knew you'd sold out!

[gillian]

Well, Betty, I may be wrong but Ithink the whole shooting thing was a joke. Not that funny I grant you, a bit too Clarksonesque for me, but I'm certain no one's going to shoot anyone. The way I read it is that people are finding the situation so ludicrous that they are responding with ludicrous scenarios. In the same way that you are talking about "land grabbing". The council are taking underused land building a school, in parkland , providing leisure facilities next to a municipal golf course. Where does the "grabbing" bit come in?

People are beyond angry at PPAG's refusal to accept that they have lost the battle, they fought hard, but they have lost. When people are so angry and frustrated about an issue so important they do say things that maybe should be left unsaid. At the end of the day the school will be built, how wonderful would it be if this happened sooner rather than much later. Have a word with your pals, get them to drop the appeal just like all the people who have signed the petition are asking and all the chidren who were demonstrating were pleading

[seanie]

I see from the video that cllr Child is vowing to fight to get the existing site turned back into to green space.
Really Maureen? Have you forgotten that meeting in March 2010 when you voted at full council in support of a report which stated the council were going to sell the school site for £3.9 Million?
That was when everyone knew you'd sold out!

You're not telling the truth Gillian. It's not enough to read the reports that go to the committees; you need to read the minutes to see what was decided. And the motion that was voted through included the following;

To approve the revised approach to open space compensation set out in the Directors’ report with the exception of the matter of the provision, or otherwise, of alternative open space.

The report was accepted apart from the recommendation regarding the existing site, although it was also confirmed that IF the site was sold, any receipt would be ring-fenced for capital investment in schools.

The issue of what to do with the existing site is still undecided.