New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[mr magnolia]

I get the feeling this may be the straw that breaks the camels back, parents have had enough of this now, myself included. I was ok with them appealing once on whatever tenuous grounds they used but to deliberately leave it so late and now to rsk a further delay of TWO YEARS, when the appeal Judge effectively threw it out is shameful

I'm with you on this issue. Not really interested in the costs persual, but enough is enough; most folk probably think its fine letting people have their day in court, but if an appeal has actually been lodged, then thats simply wilful or ill-judged refusal to acknowledge that due process has been done and seen to be done, and that there is a wider community will that is being followed by the Councils course of action in promoting the school construction. In the spirit of community engagement and consensus, I suggest that there is a crying need for a cessation of hostilities and an agreement that the school should proceed, thus allowing the community a chance to regroup and reform as a positive body, supportive of our own area, needs and wishes.

[joeshmoe]

I've had a response from Kenny Macaskill


Thank you for copying me in to your e mail. I am sorry to read that. I was with Peigi McArthur and senior pupils earlier today. Though feelings run deep in the community the time for debate has passed and the time for construction has arrived.

It’s for the council and their lawyers to consider the issue of expenses but they invariably follow success. I doubt there is any merit in any further appeal and unless there was an agreement predicated on abandoning an appeal I can’t see why they should not be pursued.
Kenny MacAskill

[seanie]

In the spirit of community engagement and consensus, I suggest that there is a crying need for a cessation of hostilities and an agreement that the school should proceed, thus allowing the community a chance to regroup and reform as a positive body, supportive of our own area, needs and wishes.

How do we persuade PPAG of that?

[seanie]

A two year delay would, I imagine, push building costs up . Anyone know if the Council would have to go through the whole tendering process again? If this is the case, then not only should the Council pursue court costs , but should pursue recompense for any additional costs.

I can't believe that PPAG are appealing this.

A contractor couldn't hold his tender for that length of time. They'd have to conclude the proceedings (up to a year?) and then go through the notification/tender procedures again, which could be another 6 months.

[joeshmoe]

A two year delay would, I imagine, push building costs up . Anyone know if the Council would have to go through the whole tendering process again? If this is the case, then not only should the Council pursue court costs , but should pursue recompense for any additional costs.

I can't believe that PPAG are appealing this.

A contractor couldn't hold his tender for that length of time. They'd have to conclude the proceedings (up to a year?) and then go through the notification/tender procedures again, which could be another 6 months.

At another huge cost to both the Council and ultimately the taxpayer

I see the strength of feeling on the FB page, perhaps it's time to have some sort of active show of support for the new school. Get the community, parents and kids together in the park itself, involve the press, denounce this action, make it an election issue. I'm sure many would be more than happy to help organise

[sopeph]

Is it worth putting a standard letter on the talk porty website that we can all download and sign? That way everyone who is against this appeal is likely to contact Kenny MacAskill and their local Councillors? I think everyone would be more than happy to turn up at the park to show our active support for the new school. Enough is enough.

[seanie]

A petition's being organised to demonstrate support for the school. As for the issue of costs, it may or may not have a bearing depending on the legal position. I'll try to get some clarity on that.

[Bob Jefferson]

Please sign the petition and post the link on your Facebook page:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/dea ... ppeal.html

[Jamesie]

Not had time to read through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been covered, but did the Petitioners seek a protective costs order at the start of the hearing, and if so were they successful?

[seanie]

The issue was mentioned briefly at the start of proceedings but there seemed to be an agreement to deal with the issues of costs later. Don't know the ins and outs of it.

[Makaveli]

Surely in cases such as this when the council have won the first case and an appeal is brought the council would then go after costs (in this case from PPAG) for costs from the first case?

That seems fair to me.

[joeshmoe]

Reply from Cllr Maureen Child


I agree, it is disgraceful.

Maureen

[storky]

With the May elections coming up, it is also worth noting that Councillor Stephen Hawkins (Lib Dems) is a PPAG supporter.

[seanie]

He's not standing.

[Jamesie]

Surely in cases such as this when the council have won the first case and an appeal is brought the council would then go after costs (in this case from PPAG) for costs from the first case?

That seems fair to me.

That would make sense but it actually isn't the case. The marking of an appeal normally "freezes" all previous orders of the court - including an order on expenses. It isn't clear to me whether any order on expenses was actually made in respect of the first - often you would see a judge stating in his or her opinion that the case would be put out "By Order" for a discussion on expenses - albeit the opinion is silent on this.

[Makaveli]

Shame that - would like to have seen costs pursued in this case.

[seanie]

£41m high school plan could be delayed by legal challenge

Diana Cairns, of PPAG, who have had to fund their expensive court battle, said: “Our QC felt we had good grounds for appeal so we decided as a group that it’s a principle worth fighting for. If this judgement is allowed it means any authority in Scotland can appropriate a piece of public good land and there would be no way of stopping it.

“Obviously we’ll be very disappointed if this fails – it will be the end of the road for us. But if you don’t try you’ll never know and you have to sometimes take these steps.

“We don’t take any satisfaction in delaying the school but if the council had tried to find a brown field site more rigorously then maybe we wouldn’t be in this situation. We’re not against the idea of a new school. The only reason there’s been any opposition is because we’ve got to give up 25 per cent of Portobello’s green space.”

[Makaveli]

How many times does this idiot have to be told that it is not 25% of Portobello's green space being lost?

[gillian]

I have just had an email, after signing the on line petition, saying there is to be a mass demo of parents and pupils, on the park after school tomorrow. Anyone know about this?

[wangi]

Hi Rosa, see http://www.facebook.com/events/346624398706241/

Basically aim is to have as many as possible making noise & their feelings known... Portobello Park at 1pm tomorrow.

L/

[Pal of Porty]

I am not too bothered about costs as I am much more concerned about the potential delay being caused to the much needed rebuild of the new school.

Surely there has to be a mechanism that can promptly validate the substance to an appeal, which has already lost on both delay and merit. The recent EEN article demonstrates that PPAG have conveniently ignored what the judge said in court and they continue to peddle their factually incorrect information interwoven with lies and mis-representations. I would not even be surprised if PPAG have only appealed to cause maximum buggeration and have every intention of withdrawing before it costs them anything - the previous behaviour of their main players certainly makes this a possibility.

Portobello is most definitely not a split community - it is only a handful of people who are making it appear so and the time has come to demonstrate this.

[storky]

The best way of proceeding with the school as soon as possible is to destroy PPAG financially. Pressure has to be applied to our Council to seek legal costs, thus preventing them proceeding with their appeal.

I have requested a FOI on the costs to date. I will post once received.

[Porty]

The best way of proceeding with the school as soon as possible is to destroy PPAG financially.

You'd think so but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Jamesie-In closing or to be precise; when PPAG sat down, our Counsel requested that a decision on expenses should be deferred, not sure of the implications?

And I agree with PoP- Portobello is not a split community, four or five sick diehards continue to alienate themselves from the body f the kirk That's all.

[Bob Jefferson]

A reminder that today is Demo Day in Portobello Park. Everyone will be heading up there after school breaks, aiming to be in the park for around 1pm. We hope to have some speakers and maybe even a samba band! This is an opportunity for all parents and their children, and anyone else who supports our cause, to come along and demonstrate their support for the new school, which is now threatened with further delay by PPAG's intention to appeal.

We are asking PPAG to drop their appeal for the sake of the thousands of local children whose education will be damaged by their actions.

What do we want? A new school!
When do we want it? Now!

http://www.facebook.com/events/346624398706241/

[Makaveli]

Have you informed Norris McWhirter to come along?

I am sure this will be the world record for most number of folk using Porty Park at one time!!!

[Bob Jefferson]

Council suing local protest group for £75,000 legal bill

[Bob Jefferson]

Have you informed Norris McWhirter to come along?

I am sure this will be the world record for most number of folk using Porty Park at one time!!!

Yeah, the irony wasn't lost on me. I'm sure the kids would much rather be on the beach. Most of them have probably never set foot on Portobello Park before and never will again until the school is built.

[storky]

I'm certainly not impressed with the response of the local councilors to this matter. Almost five working days and only two acknowledgements. The only decent reply was from Kenny Macaskill!

I've requested the email addresses of all the Edinburgh Councilors in a soft format. Perhaps the Councilors in other wards will have a little more interest. They should have as it is a general Edinburgh issue.

[joeshmoe]

http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/news/3020 ... egal-bill/

Fantastic news!!

Serves them all right. Few people in PPAG going to be on their phones to lawyers this morning!

[joeshmoe]

I'm certainly not impressed with the response of the local councilors to this matter. Almost five working days and only two acknowledgements. The only decent reply was from Kenny Macaskill!

I've requested the email addresses of all the Edinburgh Councilors in a soft format. Perhaps the Councilors in other wards will have a little more interest. They should have as it is a general Edinburgh issue.

To be fair i had replies from Councillors, they are attending the demo today as i understand it and the decision to sue PPAG has no doubt come from them as an edict to CEC

[Bob Jefferson]

Official press release from the Council:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/articl ... ourt_costs

[Makaveli]

Well done CEC!!!!

[Porty]

May sound like a daft question; who are PPAG?

The group had to formailise in order to bring the court action, Does anyone know who how many and who the named indivduals are?

[storky]

May sound like a daft question; who are PPAG?

The group had to formailise in order to bring the court action, Does anyone know who how many and who the named indivduals are?

That same thought crossed my mind.

[Franck]

Official press release from the Council:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/articl ... ourt_costs

Never really thought the cooncil would do that, well done indeed.I bet there are a few PPAG's having brown trooser moments this morning.