Independent Businesses & Subway in Portobello!

[Porty]

Who knows? From what I understand; Diana Cairns and Councillor Hawkins were both of a mind to object to the change of use. It was mentioned [by someone else] that "2 well know local business men" were behind the cafe; not the person on the application..." However, iniially there was not much signs of support for objectio around the room. Diana asked for a vote, which she lost by 10 to 2.

Personally, I think its disgraceful that some on PCC are trying to make it even more difficult for business people who are looking to invest in Portobello High Street. Especially when it is a reasonable proposition for a prominent site that has lain empty for almost two years.

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/ ... 00391/ECOU

We opened our new business at 152 High Street on September 28th last year. More than three months prior to opening, when noone could possibly have known our trading style and service provsion, the City Council recieved an enforcement complaint about change of use. I contacted the appropriate department to establish whether it was a bit strange to get a complaint prior to the opening of a new business and a new concept to Scotland!!! I was advised that ; yes it was a bit strange and that the complaint had come from a Councillor apparently on behalf of member or members of the public. At no time were we approached by any of our Councillors to establish what we were doing? And we know all three personally. The Councillor obvously had no interest in what investment we intended and just complained.

To cut a long story short we took the decision to apply for change of use (even although we thought it wholly inappropriate). The change of use was granted in record time, without quibble and not a single objection was made by a member of the public. I can only conclude that one of our Councillors deliberately sought to make life difficult for us. Perhaps not unrelated to the change of use discussion at PCC on Monday?

[Mark Cameron]

Does anyone know if either of the councillors read these threads? It would be interesting to hear their reasons for objection. How many people in the community have objected to them about this?

I'm definately for seeing new businesses on our high street rather than boarded up windows.

[Makaveli]

I am getting more and more annoyed by this Diana Cairns and he Nimby ways.

What is the woman's problem?

[wangi]

The main reason being discussed was the requirement (clause something.blah of something) that less than 33% of the high street shops should be non-retail. Cafe, hairdressers, financial services etc are non-retail. Supposedly this promotes a vibrant high street, with lots of retail use. The planning app Porty refs above pushed Porty High St to just under that 33% threshold.

Of course the reality is very different. Sure, many may wish for a nice book shop, or a shoe shop - but the world has moved on. A cafe in this prominent site is much better than a disused, or even boarded up, shop.

Also consider most of the retail on Porty High Street are homogeneous charity shops - hardly a beacon of variety!

A spark of common sense was the suggestion that as a sea-side "resort" perhaps Porty can / should sustain more cafes...

Any in any case the application is now closed for representations.

[Porty]

Interesting- I thought the 33% rule applied to a run or block of shops, not the area as a whole. In our case the run goes from the charity shop on the corner of bath street to McColls and what the situation is outside of that run of shops is of no relevance, or so I think? if the same applies to the other side of the street, the proposed cafe may have an issue?

I should say that the Councillor also complained about the colour and signage of our intended shop. Even although at the time we had yet to decide what they woud be and did not do so until two months later.

[Bob Jefferson]

Pretty sure it applies only to the primary frontage but don't recall what that consists of, I think it only refers to businesses on the north side of the street but I could be wrong on this.

[Porty]

Does anyone know if either of the councillors read these threads? It would be interesting to hear their reasons for objection. How many people in the community have objected to them about this?

I must say that when it came to making our change of use application one of our local councillors was extremly helpful with advice and knowledge about the application process. She could hardly have been more responsive and her guidance was spot on.

[Grunk]

Was surprised at the Portobello Community Council meeting last night there were a few seriously talking about objecting to this planning application. In the end the community council is going to send in a letter of comment...

I assume they were only discussing it as it had been raised by the members of the community that they represent?

They wouldn't take it upon themselves to have ideas above their station and decide issues for the greater community without consultation?

[Mark Cameron]

Do you really think so.....did they give an indication at the meeting how many people in the community had raised concerns, how many others in the community they had then canvassed opinion from?

[wangi]

I assume they were only discussing it as it had been raised by the members of the community that they represent?
They wouldn't take it upon themselves to have ideas above their station and decide issues for the greater community without consultation?

Well Portobello Community council are a statutory consultee for the application.

Do you really think so.....did they give an indication at the meeting how many people in the community had raised concerns, how many others in the community they had then canvassed opinion from?

There was one member of the public there who had concerns with the application.

Interesting- I thought the 33% rule applied to a run or block of shops, not the area as a whole. In our case the run goes from the charity shop on the corner of bath street to McColls and what the situation is outside of that run of shops is of no relevance, or so I think? if the same applies to the other side of the street, the proposed cafe may have an issue?

Pretty sure it applies only to the primary frontage but don't recall what that consists of, I think it only refers to businesses on the north side of the street but I could be wrong on this.

See Edinburgh City Local Plan; Chapter 8:

Policy Ret 9: Alternative Use of Shop Units – Primary Frontages in the City Centre and Town Centres
In Primary Frontages (defined on the Proposals Map and in Appendix D), the change of use of a shop unit to a non-shop use will be permitted provided:
a) as a result of permitting the change of use, no more than one third of the total number of units in the frontage will be in nonshop use
b) permitting the change of use, would not result in four or more consecutive non-shop uses
c) the proposal is for an appropriate commercial or community use which would complement the character of the centre and would not be detrimental to its vitality and viability

[wangi]

It was mentioned [by someone else] that "2 well know local business men" were behind the cafe; not the person on the application..."

The things you see...

[Porty bella]

There is a huge Porty mums & babies/kids market for cafes to tap into. Local mums are keen for more cafes with either soft play corners or kids toy corners for toddlers. Reds has a tiny area for small babies to sit/stand that is great and takes up no space. The cage isn't as good for unstable toddlers because they can fall and hurt themselves / get trampled by the bigger kids. But it's always busy!

Also please... some healthy food? Some allergy free options - dairy free, gluten free etc is not catered for in Porty.

Also, plenty breastfeeding mums around on dairy free, gluten free diets with babies who have reflux - who would love to have lunch/coffee & cake out regularly! My mother's groups used to meet in Porty all the time and start with coffee and cake and then stay on for lunch too!

[Mark Cameron]

Who are the people in the snaps? is it the 2 well known local businessmen?

[Doris]

So to pick up from the Acorn Pet Centre Art thread.......

Maybe Porty needs something like this initiative to draw people's attention to "hidden gems"

http://www.bury.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=6696

[Grunk]

I think its a shame to see so many empty shops.

I've heard that in some places they use the empty shops to display art and decorative pieces from local and not so local artists. I think this would be a great idea as it will draw people's attention to vacant sites, as well as adding some culture to the area, instead of just an empty window.

[kings roader]

Who are the people in the snaps? is it the 2 well known local businessmen?

Guess so

[wangi]

I see the premises at 121 Portobello High Street are now the subject of a planning application 11/01667/FUL for change of use to cafe:

The application was withdrawn.

[Porty]

May not be the end of the matter.

[Porty]

Subway posters up in shop.

[Imogen]

Subway posters up in shop.

Is there any option to complain about this? One of the reasons I wanted to move to Porty in the first place was its relative lack of ugly chain shops and cafes!

[Porty]

Its a long way from yorksire but you,ve come to the right place; Porty is the complaints hub of the city. Complaining is always an option.Our complaints department has a couple of full time staff but new blood is always welcome, especially if you do unreasonable.

Seriously, the posters are in the windows, behind the glass and therefore of no interest to planning. We already have Baguette Express, Greggs and Bains so Subway won't be first.

I think they will struggle to find a franchisee.

According to their Ad in Franchise Direct the minimum investment for a Subway outlet is £101,500. It is unlikely that opening at 121 PHS would bring much change from £200,000. Subway undoubtedly have many succesful outlets. I hope any prospective franchisee does their homework, there are dozens of second hand Subway franchises for sale, some at way less than half of what a new one will cost. Investing £200k in a business on Porty High Street would terrify me, especially in what is a secondary location

[Ross Glanville]

I love Portobello and pass through the High street a lot especially when I am visiting family there, However I don't go browsing the shops as there is a lack of variety (in my opinion) for a high street. I feel that a viable independant business is far better than a Subway. There are already a few cafes/food outlets here but they are not all the same so there isn't really much harm in that! A baguette express and a subway within a very short walking distance of one another? I don't think so! The subway in Leith has sat waiting to be franchised out for long enough if I am right in thinking at least a couple of years, if this was to happen in Portobello I think it is unfair when there could be another business using those very premises.