New Portobello High School - on going issues

[wangi]

Everyone's entitled to their point of view, and it's not your position to allow or disallow them making it known. Seems amazingly petty to try and influence it otherwise...

[Epykat]

on a site that councillors unanimously decided was the best option.

And that is the problem. I presume if the councillors unanimously decided that it was a shortsighted vision to build on the golf course you would just have sat back and accepted that? Everyone is entitled to fight their corner to the best of their ability and I'll be buying several calendars. I apologise in advance on the affect this may have on your children

[Bob Jefferson]

Everyone's entitled to their point of view, and it's not your position to allow or disallow them making it known.

What makes you think I want to disallow people from making their point of view known? What concerns me is that people will purchase the calendar without understanding precisely how the profits will be used, ie to attempt to block the replacement of Portobello High School. I hope that PPAG will make this expressly clear so that people can make an informed choice.

it's not your position

I'm simply fighting my corner to the best of my ability, as Epykat puts it, by trying to persuade people not to buy the calendar and local traders not to sell it.

Have you contributed photos?

[wangi]

Not that I see the relevance, but... I've not contributed photos to the calender (and yes, I was asked).

[Maria]

Local shops may find themselves in a difficult situation here. Many will have been very grateful for PCATS and a number of prominent members of PPAG are also high profile PCATS campaigners. I suppose, as Bob says, it is up to shoppers to let the retailer know how they feel about PPAG fundraisers.

Bob may be using emotive language, but he isn't trying to stop others from expressing a contrary view. Indeed, his effort to thwart PPAG fundraising seems fairly mundane to me. As far as I know, he hasn't tried to turn every calendar scene into a 'Spot the Bob' competition or paraded up and down in front of 'Findlay's' with placards comparing their customers to Christmas turkeys.

I agree with Bob's presumption that many folk may not be aware, when purchasing the calendar, where the money will go. This doesn't mean I think PPAG will be using underhand tactics, but merely that many folk, when faced with charity fundraising, simply put their hand in their pocket, without asking questions.

[Bob Jefferson]

or paraded up and down in front of 'Findlay's' with placards comparing their customers to Christmas turkeys.

many folk, when faced with charity fundraising, simply put their hand in their pocket, without asking questions.

Very true. I feel much the same way about the value of petitions. There are some terrible PONGS coming from your basement btw.

[Maria]

many folk, when faced with charity fundraising, simply put their hand in their pocket, without asking questions.

Very true. I feel much the same way about the value of petitions. There are some terrible PONGS coming from your basement btw.

Ah, so that's why you wouldn't sign my petition. I thought you were just being an awkward git.

The smell from my basement will be nothing btw compared to the smell in your new attic conversion if Viridor come to town.

[Bob Jefferson]

your new attic conversion

Believe me, it's easier to build a school on a public park than it is to get a loft converted around here.

[Epykat]

your new attic conversion

Believe me, it's easier to build a school on a public park than it is to get a loft converted around here.

And don't even think about putting windows on your roof . I can lend you my 'how to win against the Council taking your windows out' pack if you want. It includes a nice calendar with pictures of velux windows in it.

[mr magnolia]

I wonder if Portobello will have a new High School with sports facilities by the time our kids are entering the 2014 Commonwealth games. Hmm?

[Maria]

From the EN letters 14/11/07

Get on with giving us a new school

[Epykat]

Anybody else from Porty's family got a letter to write?

[Bob Jefferson]

Reply to Stephen's letter from Diana Cairns in today's EN:

Park isn't perfect for Porty's school

[Bob Jefferson]

In case anyone else has forgotten what was unanimously decided by full Council on 21 December 2006:

Consultation on Site Options for the Replacement of Portobello High School and St John’s Primary School

A consultation process had been undertaken on the options to replace Portobello High School and St John’s Primary School. Evaluation of the benefits, timescales, cost and deliverability supported building a new Portobello High School in Portobello Park, with a site for St John’s being reserved at the current High School site.

Decision

1) To acknowledge the high level of considered and measured debate that this consultation had generated, with nearly 800 people attending 3 public meetings, in addition to the individual and group submissions detailed in the joint report by the Directors of City Development and Children and Families.

2) To approve the selection of Option C (Portobello Park) as the preferred location for a new Portobello High School, subject to:

(a) confirmation, through the courts if necessary, of the land being useable for this purpose;

(b) an audit of usage of the current park being undertaken to inform the re-provisioning of adequate facilities to meet that need;

(c) the identification of local available land for open space provision in compensation for the loss of part of Portobello Park;

(d) this land (which may include the current St John’s Primary School site) being identified and secured prior to the commencement of construction of any new Portobello High School; and

(e) assurances that no housing would be built on the remaining green space of Portobello Park/golf course.

3) To approve the selection of Option A (rebuild within the Portobello High School site) as the preferred location for a new St John’s Primary School with a commitment to ongoing dialogue about possible further improvements to be made to the current school site.

4) To delegate authority to the Directors of Children and Families and Finance to:

(a) develop a funding strategy for the delivery of these schools;

(b) submit an initial case to the Scottish Executive in January 2007 in advance of submission of a full business case; and

(c) explore, with the Scottish Executive, possible delivery mechanisms for the Portobello High School and St John’s Primary School rebuild programmes.

5) To call for a report on the consequences of:

(a) increasing the size of the new Portobello High School to 1400 places in line with demand;

(b) setting an intake limit for the 2007/2008 start of session which would be appropriate for a school of 1400 places; and

(c) considering the possible need to review the catchment area for the school at a suitable time prior to the opening of the new school building.

6) To call for a further report on new build versus refurbishment of St John’s Primary School.

(References – Act of Council No 2 of 4 May 2006; joint report no CEC/144/06-07/CD+C&F by the Directors of City Development and Children and Families, submitted)

.

[Bob Jefferson]

Councillor Burns' motion to Council on 25 October 2007:

“This Council re-affirms previous decisions regarding the need for a new Portobello High School, and the agreed location of Portobello Park, all within the timescale previously proposed of 2011.

This Council believes that any funding package for a new school for Portobello, and the other 4 schools in ‘‘wave 3”, must include substantial support from the Scottish Government and agrees to urgently submit a formal proposal to the Government seeking the required funding.

Council further agrees:

to work with the school communities, of all 5 schools in wave 3, to press the Scottish Government for the required support to report back in two cycles on what contribution could be made from Council resources,through prudential borrowing and capital receipts, or other methods."

Decision:

To reaffirm previous decisions regarding the need for a new Portobello High School.

To recognise the serious and urgent need for five new or renovated “wave 3” schools and to this end to continue to discuss ways forward with the Scottish Government.

To agree that any funding package for a new school for Portobello, and the other four schools in “wave 3”, must include substantial support from the Scottish Government and urgently to submit a formal proposal to the Government seeking the required funding.

Further, to agree:

(a) To work with the school communities of all five schools in “wave 3” to press the Scottish Government for the required support.

(b) To report back early in the new year on what contribution could be made from Council resources, through prudential borrowing and capital receipts or other methods.

5) In this regard, to note the ongoing constructive dialogue between parents, teachers, the Director and Convener of Education, Children and Families and the Director of Finance on the way forward.

6) To welcome the proposals made by the above:

(a) To undertake initial feasibility studies and option appraisals with an aim of completion by the end of January 2008 and presenting the results to a meeting of the Education, Children and Families Committee thereafter.

(b) To explore all possible financial options for funding the necessary work.

(c) To meet again in December 2007 to discuss progress.

[bearcub]

Today's Evening News, complete with video...

Crumbling Porty High

[Maria]

Has anyone mangaged to view the video clip? It won't load for me

[Bob Jefferson]

Works fine on a PC but I had problems viewing it on Mac as well - very slow and stuttering. It's a .wmv file so Flip4Mac should be able to handle it.

[Bob Jefferson]

Anyone who is still having problems viewing this video might want to try this link:

http://www.multimedia.scotsman.com/encl ... Porty2.wmv

You then also have the option to save a copy for posterity.

[Bob Jefferson]

From today's EN Letters Page:

Time for an open debate on school site

[Porty]

Contrary to the impression Mr McIntyre wishes to create, I still object to any development of Portobello Park

Eh? The impression I create?

I got the " impression" in question for the following reasons: Councilor Hawkins attended a meeting of more than 200 parents. He had an opportunity to address the audience, he did so.

He told us that after some negotiating, the decision to locate the new PHS on Portobello Park was once again given unanimous support by the Councilors (does unanimous not include him?), he told us that he did not wish to revisit the educational consultation, which is the only legal process available to establish the intended site of a relocated School. (Planning permission and other permissions are almost always required too)

What he failed to mention was that he is still against building on Portobello Park.

Now I wonder why he failed to mention this? He also failed to tell us whether he was still hoping to build in Figgate Park.

We had to wait til the Evening News letter a few weeks later to find out, and that was after i had formed my "impression". So it wasn't me that created this impression.

What I don't understand is; how can a proposal have unanimous support with a Councilor who at a later date announces that he is opposed to the core purpose of that proposal?

To summarise: Mr Hawkins does not wish to revisit something he fundamentally disagrees with!!!! I'm struggling to identify the appropriate impression to apply to this situation.

Any suggestions?

[Bob Jefferson]

A worrying development, as outlined in Maureen Child's newsletter:

Quest for New Local Schools - Progress Slow

I continue to push for action on Portobello High School and St John’s RC Primary School. The funding position is not yet clear but the Council has agreed to take the feasibility for all their top priority new schools to the next stage so that the Scottish Government and Council can make a decision on how much money to provide for new schools in Edinburgh.

Despite my efforts to get a re-affirmation of the commitment to a new school, the future of a new community secondary school and library, for a re-populated Craigmillar, is still uncertain. The building would be provided for by the regeneration company, PARC, and with a grant already agreed by the Scottish Government a couple of years ago. Since the abortive proposals to close Castlebrae, its future remains uncertain and there may be a proposal to build an even bigger Portobello High School.

It seems inconceivable that anyone would seriously consider increasing the size of what is already Edinburgh's largest school and I'm sure this idea, if it has any foundation, will be strongly resisted by both communities.

[wangi]

It seems inconceivable that anyone would seriously consider increasing the size of what is already Edinburgh's largest school and I'm sure this idea, if it has any foundation, will be strongly resisted by both communities.

Oh, I don't know... think back a few days to your own response / the perceived response of others to an off the cuff suggestion I made regarding cutting the Portobello catchment (less pupils to an overcrowded school) in favour of increasing the Castlebrae or replacement catchment (more pupils for a school with capacity):

For starters consider the impact of redrawing the school catchment boundaries

I wouldn't say that too loudly. I can hear the sound of pitchforks being sharpened.

Obviously the matra of "economies of scale" is getting banded about somewhere in the council, however children are not goods coming off a production line. Smaller schools are surely better for the local communities they serve. However the parents of pupils (and future pupils) at Portobello are unwittingly siding with such a scheme - it'd be unthinkable to send their kids up to the "under-performing" Castlebrae up by "undesirable" Craigmillar, eh?

[Bob Jefferson]

Just to remind you....

From Parclife

11 July 2007

Craigmillar Schools Look Forward to an Exciting Future

PARC is to invest around £30 million in a brand new community High School and public library for Craigmillar.

The new school will have capacity for up to 700 pupils and will be one of the most technologically advanced anywhere in Edinburgh.

Consultation with the local community on how the new school will look will begin later this year. Construction work will begin in 2009, with the new school opening for the start of the school year in 2011.

Councillor Mrs Marilyne MacLaren, Convenor for Education, Children and Families, at the City of Edinburgh Council adds:

"The Council is committed to continuing to provide excellent learning opportunities for the children of Craigmillar, and the wider community.

"We look forward to working with PARC over the next four years to provide a new learning establishment of which the whole city can be proud."

Millions of pounds are being spent on regenerating Craigmillar. It was only yesterday they officially opened half a million quid's worth of artificial sports pitches. Thousands of new homes are being built.

I must be missing something.

[seanie]

Smaller schools are surely better for the local communities they serve.

There's not much evidence to support that. Research suggests that very small and very large schools are best avoided but the middle range is considerable. It's generally regarded that secondary schools with a poorer socio-econonmic intake are better if smaller than those with a more balanced intake, partly because there are more pastoral issues, but as secondary schools get smaller its more difficult to offer a broad curriculum.

[Bob Jefferson]

PHS-related matters from a recent Council meeting:

QUESTION NO 4

By Councillor Child to be answered by the Convener of the Education, Children and Families Committee at a meeting of the Council on 22 November 2007.

Question

Following the firm public commitment made by her Vice-Chair, Councillor Beckett, at the Portobello High School meeting on 30 October 2007, what progress has been made on the design of a new Portobello High School and application for planning permission, matters which can be taken forward in parallel with the preparation of the case for new schools’ funding to the Scottish Government?

Answer

I was not present at the meeting but the Vice-Convener assures me he did not say this. It is recognised that the proposed site for Portobello is a contentious one within the local Portobello area. Accordingly it is considered that a planning application should not be submitted until the full details of the proposal are available. This will give all interested parties the opportunity to comment on the full details of the proposal, rather than partial information that would be presented for information as part of an earlier, outline application. The development of a detailed design for the school requires to await the appointment of a design team through the formal procurement process. Given that the appointment of a team and the development of a design to planning application stage will incur considerable fees (upwards of £1 m), this will have to await funding being secured for this project.

QUESTION NO 5

By Councillor Burns to be answered by the Convener of the Education, Children and Families Committee at a meeting of the Council on 22 November 2007.

Question

Are you able to confirm that:

• The City of Edinburgh Basketball Club Management Committee will be consulted on the sports hall provision in the new Portobello High School?
  
  The sports hall provision in the new Portobello High School will replicate, as a minimum, the existing space dimensions of the present games hall and gymnasium combined?

Answer

There have already been initial discussions with the Club regarding their inclusion within the provision in the new Portobello High School. However, until a design team is appointed, it is too early to debate the specification for the sports facilities. Once funding is secured for the project, the appointment of a design team can commence and further consideration given to the specification of the facilities.

As indicated above, the specifications are yet to be agreed for the sports facilities for the school. They will, as a minimum, meet the generic standards for school design set out by the Council, and take cognisance of SportScotland guidance on sports facilities.

[mr magnolia]

I may be wrong but i would have thought that an outline planning application is exactly what should be happening if there is any possibility of seriously moving this forward. It doesn't commit anyone to anything, but it would flush out the 'legal' issue of the use of the land, and it would allow a formal debate and a resolution of any accommodations or provisions that have to be made elsewhere. Prudent management would require that to be sorted ahead of or at least in parallel with any tentative thoughts about gym halls.

(or perhaps an outline is not needed?)

[Bob Jefferson]

Perhaps seanie would like to comment on that?

Meanwhile, here is Maureen's motion re a replacement school for Craigmillar from the same meeting:

10.10 By Councillor Child - New High School for Craigmillar

“That this Council re-affirms its commitment to the building of a new High School for Craigmillar as the cornerstone of the new Town Centre and the heart of the regeneration of this part of Edinburgh and asks PARC to continue with the next stage of the school design process, without delay.”

[seanie]

An outline planning application is exactly what I'd expect if the Council seriously wanted to take things forward. Given that the proposal is obviously contentious and could take a long time to resolve, an outline application could sort out whether the basic idea was feasible without the huge outlay of cost that involves the considerable design development to arrive at a full application.

[Bob Jefferson]

From the Association of Teachers and Lecturers today:

A question mark has been raised over plans to revamp five schools in Edinburgh.

Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's opposition leader, today warned that new funding may not be available until 2009.

Boroughmuir High, Portobello High, James Gillespie's High, St John's Primary and St Crispin's Special School have been earmarked for rebuilding or refurbishment that will cost over £100 million in total.

In October, the Scottish government announced that instead of funding the entire project, it was setting up the Scottish Futures Trust, its own version of private finance initiatives, but no timetable has been given.

Mr Burns told the Scotsman he considered it unlikely that the trust would be up and running before 2009-10.

Councillor Marilyne MacLaren, the city's education leader, said: 'I am concerned that the document talks of incremental progress on the trust proposal, as these schools urgently need rebuilding.'

A Scottish government spokesperson said any promise of financial support would be honoured.

[Bob Jefferson]

The front page of the PPAG site boldly claims:

We do not claim to represent the whole of the community but we do represent a SIGNIFICANT MAJORITY

Really? Prove it. And please don't cite your completely discredited online petition.

[Bob Jefferson]

Anyone remember the Scottish Futures Trust? It was the SNP's big idea, much touted in their election manifesto, to replace PFI to fund things like new schools.

Naturally, those of us who are waiting to find out how the Scottish Government proposes to finance a new Portobello High School are rather keen to discover precisely what SFT is and when it is going to happen.

No time soon it would appear. A consultation with stakeholders is finally under way, with responses required by 14 March. Action at last? Don't hold your breath:

7.1 Recognising these constraints and the lead times involved in setting up any new investment vehicle, the Government views the SFT initiative as a development path moving from the present position in a series of stages to the realisation of all of our objectives, rather than a big bang approach.

[Bob Jefferson]

From Andrew Burns' blog today:

Well, recently it was Goodbye biomass, it now appears that all our fears about Wave3 schools were all too well-founded

Back in October the Council agreed a motion on the way forward and to receive an update report on the various feasibility studies by the end of January ... still haven't seen that report, and now that the 12th February meeting is cancelled, I've no idea when this work will publicly surface - surely not as part of the main budget-meeting when it would have no chance of receiving any 'detailed consideration'?

And now, to make matters a lot worse, it appears that at a meeting of the Portobello High School Parent Council last night the local MSP said something to the effect of:

• As a result of the local government settlement, Council’s no longer apply to the Scottish Government for additional capital funding. They have been allocated additional budget that they can use as they see fit.
  
  With regard to new schools – or any other capital project - the City Council now needs to work out its priorities and how to use the additional funds that have been provided.
  
  For a new Portobello High School, the City Council does not need to present a business case or apply for funding to the Scottish Government. Once it has decided its commitment to a new school, it needs to work out how to fund the project from its own resources

I'll tell you now, that will come as a huge shock to officers working on the feasibility studies ... not to mention the Council Coalition politicians!

As for the money being available in the Local Government settlement ... well, I can only repeat that if the equivalent levels of finance as the first two-rounds of school-building in the City are eventually made available, then I'll be the first to applaud it - remembering that round one in Edinburgh was some £130million of capital investment and round two some £180million.

That level of capital monies is NOT in the current Local Government settlement for the City of Edinburgh Council.

Goodbye Wave3 Schools ??

[Bob Jefferson]

Better news for Castlebrae from tonight's EN:

£30m 'centre of excellence' set to unite star pupils in city

[Bob Jefferson]

From today's EN:

City makes 'desperate' appeal for school cash