Portobello Beach: disabled access project

[Denise]

Sorry for my lack of observational skills, thought the tank chairs were already in production.
AND... when did you get to be a moderator Rapunzell! hmmmmm?

The chairs with the all terrain wheels way back at the start of this thread are available though.

Are other authorities hiring them out? Seems a bit tight. Could there not just be a booking system and anyone entitled to a "blue badge" or taxi card could book them?

Not sure how these things work in practice.

[rapunzell]

I didn't help by putting a link to that tank chair in a blog about the Landeez coming to the beaches In my brand new position of beachy mod I can be the first person I delete This time I just edited and added a few words.

To add assistance/ confusion, here is that link to the Landeez chair from the Cornwall article you spotted:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/5197610.stm

I think most beaches call it chair hire but it is free, and you get the deposit back when you bring the chair back. The deposit seems to range from nowt to an average of a fiver to an outrageous £70 on one beach, must check my notes and name them. I know the customer gets the money back but who ordinarily takes £70 down to the beach? Still, at least the chairs are being provided, which is great progress. I'm looking forward to us joining in : )

[rapunzell]

First update from the new location

Here is a shot from Palermo beach, where a beach path is formed from (I think) 6 feet by 2 feet sections of planking, laid side by side and end to end. Very temporary, and not too heavy or expensive, but needs a good sized cupboard/ shed/ garage storage and a few volunteers to heft. Do you think Mica would give us a good price quote?.. Maybe a company will give us them for free if we emblazon their logo on the planks as free advertising..


http://www.flickr.com/photos/96947382@N00/404915396/

with thanks to the photographer:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/400asa/

[Maria]

Think you'd need something bigger than a cupboard for that lot Rapunzell! I also suspect that they would have to be lifted and relaid every day lest they ended up on a bonfire on the beach.

Are the Council still trying to come up with different options then? Have they no solution in mind themselves?

[rapunzell]

Yes, we'd need someone with a garage, spare energy and a watchdog for that kind of path. We'll keep that plan as a last resort

I hope we'll be getting an update from the council soon, fingers crossed. I'm trying to get as much info and as many contacts ready for them as possible.

[rapunzell]

I've had encouraging email from our new principle CEC contact Chris Stannard, of Service Improvement Management. Unfortunately they weren't successful in securing funding for the whole proposed project, but plans are afoot to begin changes, he is still seeking alternative areas of funding to increase the plans, and he is very interested in finding out how the Turkish Baths could be utilised as a base to provide access that would otherwise be more costly (and therefore less likely) so watch this space for further information.

There has also been very encouraging email from Nick Croft , Liz Summerfield and William Alexander, who are all involved with the disability access forum of the CEC and keen to ensure that enough work is done and that changes are good enough, and will help all they can. I will let them know where (it seems) we are up to now, and ask for advice!

[rapunzell]

Today Chris Stannard and surveyor took a look at the ramp down from the Turkish Baths to cost it for resurfacing and levelling. It is as good a place to start the project as any, especially if the first pathway and/or beach wheelchair are based at the Baths. The work on this first ramp will give them a good idea of costs, and the cost of eventually expanding along the promenade. Here we go!

[Sandra]

Today Chris Stannard and surveyor took a look at the ramp down from the Turkish Baths to cost it for resurfacing and levelling. It is as good a place to start the project as any, especially if the first pathway and/or beach wheelchair are based at the Baths. The work on this first ramp will give them a good idea of costs, and the cost of eventually expanding along the promenade. Here we go!

Brilliant news Rapunzell

[rapunzell]

Well, it is springtime! Eight months after we first started to try to improve beach access, and most of the ramps are still blocked by the high tech sand containment solution of concrete blocks and a switched-off answering machine. At the start of the year the council email said they had examined the access proposals over the winter but failed to find full funding. The next explained we were at least getting one ramp and pathway at the Turkish Baths, with chance of chairs at that base. Now they want detailed proposals before they see what they can fund.

No matter what kind of smooth ramps and sand pathways we *eventually* manage to install, it will make no difference if the 'sand containment' issue continues to block most of the entrances with lumps of concrete, and those supplying them refuse to communicate on the matter.

I did get to sit on the sand in the sunshine on my birthday this weekend, but it was only thanks to the assistance of some big strong lads, and we still took a risk using the dangerous gap left on the bottom of Bath Street where the 'access' is a cross section of ramp and steps. Wheels can only fall over the edge, so the chair has to be lifted. The council has been repeatedly warned about the danger of this particular gap, with no results or response. Even other council departments agree that 'sand containment' is not always more important than human access, and that if using concrete blockades instead of sand gates etc, then they cannot use them for eight months of every year and call it 'winter' sand containment.

Does it take a journalist or a solicitor to make certain members of the council answerable? If so, where are they?! There are so many issues that are difficult or complex to sort out, and here we are having to waste time and energy fixing something as basic as concrete blocks and the man whose team put them there.

Anyway, back to taking pathway measurements and looking at sandchairs with optimism and the knowledge that we do have some council members helping us with this, and they'll work it out eventually. Probably.

Only three months until summer?!

[rapunzell]

Does anyone know how to construct a professionally presented proposal for the specific requirements of a fully accessible promenade and beach? Or could recommend someone who would help draw up something like this and know what must be included? For free or nearly free?

I'd always hoped the council would do this themselves as part of their consideration of the prom's needs over the winter, but they didn't, and if pushed I suspect they would only spend the available funding on a glossy consultancy firm, and the last time they looked at the prom like that it was all very philosophical and expensive but access wasn't even mentioned.

I'd like to have something to give this latest consultancy firm for the redevelopment of the amusement land etc, as well as giving it to the council. The more specific and professional our presentation, the less easy it will be for them to treat it as an optional extra, but I don't know how to do this!

[rapunzell]

Spring appears to have returned, but the beach is as we left it, well, except for the now well-fertilised sand... Time for a new round of emails, working with those who have been taking an interest and trying to get plans instigated, but also chasing those officials who haven't answered any email since the first hit their inboxes last summer...

It is starting to look as though Fife Council is pulling ahead of Edinburgh Council for beach access. Great for optimism, and we must catch up!

[rapunzell]

Our glamourous overseas correspondent (Denise) has provided evidence of Fife's progress on beach access. It isn't elegant, but it is effective, and it doesn't need specialist maintenance. Thanks to the length needed to give access to the highwater mark, the slope is very gentle.



There can't be ramp access to the low tide mark at Burntisland beach because the sea retreats about a mile out and hides behind an island

[Puerto bella]

I e mailed the Council about this last year and got an acknowledgment and that was all I heard. I suggested that they install a type of matting/ ramp for the summer months. You see these all over Spain and they are basically like a chespale fence lying flat on the ground with the wooden planks lying tightly together. It means that you can push a wheelchair or pram along them to get access right down to the water.

[rapunzell]

Hi Puerto bella, welcome to the quest! Those are good paths, and very inexpensive too, so I was hoping that suggesting them would inspire the council to offer us a couple in time for this summer while they saw to the more difficult, labour intensive or expensive alterations. They just added them to the list.

We do have trouble with anything wooden being in danger of finding its way onto the odd bonfire, but we could easily have a couple of those slatted roll-up-able pathways for daytime or special events, stored at the Turkish Baths perhaps. I think we are going to have to make our own path in the meantime. I wish I knew someone with a workshop and some spare stock!

[wangi]

Rapunzell, a few times now I've seem you refer specifically to the Turkish Baths... And I'm confused. What's the distinction here with those and the the swimming pool? Surely anything stored will just be "bunged round the back" of the "Portobello Swim Centre"?

[rapunzell]

So sorry folks, I don't have any good news or breakthroughs with the project yet. The latest council update is that the first part of their plans (one altered ramp and path at the Turkish Baths) are gradually taking shape and their intentions are good but not imminent, even with the delay on this year's summer weather.

We could have had a taste of things to come with a special pathway for the community opening of the pyramid installation, but I'm afraid BTotB realised too late it wasn't an optional extra but an integral component of a 'community' event, and unfortunately despite their best efforts couldn't come up with one in the final week. They do have a head start for their next beach installation though, so we have that to look forward to!

[rapunzell]

It's what the council have been calling it when we discuss the building as storage and staff there as possible helpers, so that's what I've been calling it too.

[wangi]

Well to be honest it just seems to be confusing...

Lets just call it what people call it? The turkish baths are just a wee bit inside the building!

[rapunzell]

I've only ever heard it referred to as the Turkish baths, never as the swim centre. In fact, when I first called it by its full title, no-one knew I meant that place and thought it must be nearer town. I might remember to call it by the official name, though I won't risk confusing the council, who think they are improving access outside the Turkish Baths.

[wangi]

Different circles... It's simply "Portobello Baths" to me...

[Puerto bella]

Hi Rapunzel, things don't move quickly in the Council unless you hassle, hassle, hassle. Have you tackled our new Councillors about this yet? I was thinking that maybe its something they should be looking at in terms of the seaside award and general improvements to the beach and access for all. I think I will e mail them again and try and get a response this time.

[rapunzell]

Hi Rapunzel, things don't move quickly in the Council unless you hassle, hassle, hassle. Have you tackled our new Councillors about this yet? I was thinking that maybe its something they should be looking at in terms of the seaside award and general improvements to the beach and access for all. I think I will e mail them again and try and get a response this time.

That's great Pb, we need as many people as possible to hassle the council and the tourist board, and best of all would be if the media *finally * took up the issue and started hassling them too publicly to be ignored!

The last councillor, lawrence Marshall, didn't answer a single one of my emails about access in almost two years, except when one of his colleagues emailed him about it. I will keep on at the new ones...

[Puerto bella]

Explains why he lost his seat? I had a similar experience although I did get a response after a time but it never really got to the bottom of an issue or helped until around a month before the election when there was a small flurry of responses. Funny that.......

[rapunzell]

Explains why he lost his seat? I had a similar experience although I did get a response after a time but it never really got to the bottom of an issue or helped until around a month before the election when there was a small flurry of responses. Funny that.......

Apparently one in seven Scottish voters have mobility problems (no idea what the ratio for non voters is...) but I don't know if that includes the mobility problems of parent with a heavy pram, and there are loads of those!

Maureen Child has shown an interest in improving access and attitudes to it, but has had difficulty in persuading her colleagues of its importance.

[Maria]

Saw two items of interest to this thread while on holiday in Sardinia, Rapunzell.

The first was a path to aid beach access which was constructed of sections of rigid blue plastic. It wasn't that satisfactory as parts came adrift and it couldn't really cope with an uneven surface.

However, I also spotted two wheelchair users and their families regularly access the beach on some funky looking chairs similar to the Landeez one pictured at the start of this thread. The frames were light and could fold. The seats consisted of a blue material 'laced' onto the frame and the wheels were yellow and of a large 'balloon' type. The men were easily pushed onto the sand and also into the water. I didn't have a camera to take a photo and having no Italian, unfortunately couldn't ask about them. I tried to identify a manufacturer's name and was delighted to spot a website addie -www.neotech.it - on the back of each chair. Unfortunately, on looking at this site it doesn't seem to be the manufacturer - it must have been an advert for the company

If storage of equipment is a stumbling block then these chairs would be ideal as they are obviously designed to be stored easily (the two families were camping in RVs adjacent to the beach). It is also a product that I would assume is available in Europe as opposed to the Aussie and US chairs which dominate the net.

[rapunzell]

Thanks Marya! I will investigate...

Actually, there's a thing we've never thought of - getting a chair or two from local sponsors instead. Are there any wealthy business entrepreneurs in the area..?

[GRANTY]

The National Lotteries 'Awards for All Grant' is ideal for this sort of thing. You'd just need to get a constituted group to apply. They'll give grants up to £10,000 and the application process is easy. I'd say it would be a good case.

[rapunzell]

The National Lotteries 'Awards for All Grant' is ideal for this sort of thing. You'd just need to get a constituted group to apply. They'll give grants up to £10,000 and the application process is easy. I'd say it would be a good case.

Aha! Is the community council a constituted group?

[Epykat]

The National Lotteries 'Awards for All Grant' is ideal for this sort of thing. You'd just need to get a constituted group to apply. They'll give grants up to £10,000 and the application process is easy. I'd say it would be a good case.

The application process is easy Rapunzell. I got money from them for the school playground and it was very painless!

[rapunzell]

Thanks Epy!

Well, inspired by thoughts of lottery funding, I'm trying to find out how to get into a group so I can apply for a grant for a couple of beach buggies and maybe a kitty for Portobello Swim Centre for, I dunno, padlocks and posters? Not sure what they'll need!

In the meantime I met our pal from Scottish Natural Heritage at the weekend, who has apparently been working away in the background trying to (repeatedly) offer money, manpower and freebies to the council for the alterations and pathways we met to discuss last year with the council management.

He is keen to work on the project himself, even _do_ it himself, but the council have been so disinterested they've come close to losing SNH's help altogether. Unfortunately they must have the council as part of the project, or else they'd have just gone ahead on their own with it last year and we'd have had all sorts of pathways and trial day events to try out already!

It is very hard to think kindly of the council when I know there is a group actively trying to *build* us pathways and the council are saying, yeah, ok, in a bit, maybe later, what? Yeah, after lunch.

Maddening!

[SoupDragon]

Saw this news item at the weekend, seems some beaches are able to get special chairs
BBC

picture on this linkBBC link

from the article it would appear the funding came from a govt dept
The chairs look like they need someone to push them and the articles don't say how the hiring of them is managed but its interesting to see that its feasible

[rapunzell]

The council don't want to talk about beach access as its now part of the intergalactic coastal redevelopment project, so progress has not been possible these past THREE YEARS. However, it pays not to give up hope, or move house just to get a swim, and now there is a wee bit of news.

Lakeland Ltd sell a sturdy garden path in sections, strong enough to take heavy wheelbarrows. They can be fastened side-by-side to provide a double width path that can cope with slopes, slippiness and rough use. Can you guess where I'm going with this?

Lakeland Ltd have offered to provide a (short) section of path to enable access down the sand, perhaps for a community event in the near future, if we can get our end organised. I imagine it would be just for that day's use then we'd need to store it in a shed/ cupboard on the prom for the next organised day's use, but still, OMG

[rapunzell]

Ok, we just need to get a letter from the community council saying that they approve a beach path and Lakeland will send the pieces. There won't be enough to reach the high tide mark so I may fundraise the cost to get extra sections.

We also need somewhere to store it - preferably where it can be accessed by others.

[wangi]

Did you put "community council" there by mistake, instead of Edinburgh Council?

[rapunzell]

Did you put "community council" there by mistake, instead of Edinburgh Council?

Nope, I thought that if Edinburgh Council don't want anything to do with it then they must be leaving it for Portobello to decide for ourselves