We are sailing, well almost...

Carol · Post by **Carol** » 24 Oct 2006, 17:16

My posting has gone on to the Bottom of Bath Street Page.

Jonathan Bendit · Post by **Jonathan Bendit** » 24 Oct 2006, 18:43

I think there is a bit of unease about the siting of the dinghy park. The dinghies would be getting launched in the middle of the "golden balls, we would be losing a well established landscaped area, the residents around there may be subjected to noise and other disturbance. What happens to it all if the dinghy club is not a commercial success?

I quite understand your concerns and aim to address them here:

The golden balls as you describe them were located - I believe - to provide a guide for the Jet Skis. I am unsure as to why launching sailing dinghies or kayaks should be cause for concern.

In my view the greatest losers of the landscaped area, would be dogs who, according to my observations are the ground's most frequent visitors. We shall NOT be building on the land but creating a well landscaped and - as far as possible - attractive dinghy park. Currently, I think it looks pretty tatty and unkempt and I think we could probably improve on it!

The issue of noise I intend to deal with in the document which I will make available in the next 10 days or so.

As for whether or not it will be a commercial success; the dinghy club will be set up as a charity. It will raise funding from a variety of sources, including community activities, grants and membership fees. Its costs - beyond the capital costs associated with its initial establishment (i.e. fencing, landscaping etc) will include annual ground rent charges from the council, ground maintenance fees, security, boat purchase costs, a web site, etc.

However, within a couple of years we would hope to get RYA accreditation to provide sailing courses. The club could create revenue by renting boats out (albeit at a very competitive rate), it would charge members for boat storage etc. So, the intention is that the club will, at the very least, pay its own way.

IF it is not a commercial success, we will dismantle the fencing, sell the boats, and return the land to the council.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 27 Oct 2006, 17:09

Thank you for posting your intentions on POL, there's been all sorts of rumours floating around (sorry, couldn't resist the pun). I saw the neighbour notifications and it wasn't very clear as to what was intended as the dotted lines merged with the solid ones, then came the delay in being able to see plans. Some folks thought this was an attempt to delay public awareness by a slick operator associated with Gregors who would then sneak in and build more "Miami flats". Other rumours have been a road thru' the site, a clubhouse, walls built etc etc. Hence the unease.

I know kayaks go at a gentle pace, wasn't sure about the speed of dinghys but if you say there's no danger to bathers then that seems ok. You have to remember that this is the first year we've been free of selfish jet skiers buzzing the tideline. (Yes there were a few "golden balls "there last year but some jet skiers ignored them )

The landscaped area is used by sunbathers and picnickers in the summer. Unfortunatly it's true that dog owners allow their animals to foul there, as happens in every green space and park in Porty. Until about mid week Gregors (at least I think it was them )had a grotty bit fence up against the wall which didn't improve the look of the place.

I look forward to seeing your plans for the area. being honest you might have a couple of my offspring amongst your customers

Number12lilac · Post by **Number12lilac** » 16 Nov 2006, 16:57

impossiblevoices wrote:this is a brilliant idea. Lets all try and support it and not start the complaining and whining already, Gedge. I'm sure that all the necessary Health and Safety requirements will be met and that people will use their common sense when planning all this out. Lets not tarnish this great idea with whinging before it is even off the ground.

I feel that it is very unfair for such a sweeping statement to be made. Voicing ones opinions and concerns about such a proposal, particularly for those of us who live directly next to the planned site, should not be dismissed as whinging, whining or moaning.

It is difficult to support such a proposal when one faces having a seven foot fence erected directly outside ones window, and the 'open sea views' suddenly start to resemble 'life in Barlinnie Prison'. I think we are entitled to ask if the noise (paricularly at night in high winds) is likely to cause disturbance as, again, this site is directly outside many bedroom windows.

It's not about whinging and moaning, it's about getting all the facts so that we are in a better position to make informed choices.

Freestyler · Post by **Freestyler** » 29 Dec 2006, 01:55

Jonathan Bendit wrote:Jetskis? No way. Wind or paddle power only. We would make the constitution restrict use of the centre accordingly!

Jonathan , Watersports means watersports. This is a fantasic op for the beach and all sports should be considered.

Remember it not only your tax dollar that pays for these things...

Jonathan Bendit · Post by **Jonathan Bendit** » 29 Dec 2006, 20:39

Jonathan , Watersports means watersports. This is a fantasic op for the beach and all sports should be considered.

Remember it not only your tax dollar that pays for these things...

Freestyle. The location of the proposed site for the Water Sports club is inappropriate for jetskis for a number of reasons.

First, it is not close to anywhere that would give the necessary vehicle access to the beach.

Secondly, it is adjascent to the line of yellow balls which were placed there to provide a line behind which jetskis are dissallowed.

Thirdly the likely members of the club are those that would benefit from using the facilities that the dinghy / kayak park would provide, ie storage, equipment rental, so there would not be much in it for jetskiers.

Whether or not the Water Sports Club that will hopefully be formed, can offer anything else to jetskiers is open to discussion. I recognise that Portobello is a wonderful location for all watersports enthusiasts, the key is to manage all interests so that they can coexist successfully with one another and with locals residents.

My ambition is to successfully establish a dinghy and kayak club. The choice of the term water sports is born out of convenience. I doubt very much whether we would be successful in the planning application, were it to include Jet skis.

I don't know what you mean when remind me that "it not only your tax dollar that pays for these things... " If the club is formed, its funding will come from membership fees and hopefully lottery money.

Freestyler · Post by **Freestyler** » 30 Dec 2006, 23:33

Jonathan, I hope it goes well i really do, I`ve been into watersports for years and enjoy anything that includes water.

My wife has been a sailor for 18 years now and this is a great idea to bring back some fun and sports to the beach.

My comments where said because shower and changing rooms could be used by all and also a bit of interaction between the activity`s would also help control use of the beach.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 16 Jan 2007, 19:18

Here is the planning support document. Neighbourhood notification went out last night.

Planning Support Document

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Jan 2007, 12:19

What an excellent and largely accurate document. Not to say there is not the odd mistake but in a 30+ page document it is overall good quality. Good luck Jonatahn.

Jonathan Bendit · Post by **Jonathan Bendit** » 17 Jan 2007, 17:40

Thanks Porty.

Mistakes, i.e. typos and gramatical **** ups will, I hope, soon be gone. Factual errors - happy to be corrected!

Thumper* · Post by Thumper* » 17 Jan 2007, 18:16

Just picked up on thie thread ............. wow what a great asset for the local area ................ a great place for youngsters to learn a new sport, and somewhere for watersport enthusiast's to get together

This is also a good opportunity, to incorporate the local Personal watercraft community................ it works well in other parts of the country..and responsible jetskiers, make great safety boat operatives........espescially when the youngster's are out in force, learning to sail ................. give it some thought ??

The RYA would be a usefull resource with your planning application as well as liason with the PWC community............. if I can help, PM me !!

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 17 Jan 2007, 18:44

I can't get that file to open!

Jonathan Bendit · Post by **Jonathan Bendit** » 17 Jan 2007, 19:07

Morag - it is just a .pdf. Have you the latest version of acrobat reader? Try http://www.adobeacrobat-8.com/index.asp ... a20eebb21e.

Jonathan Bendit · Post by **Jonathan Bendit** » 17 Jan 2007, 19:08

Thumper* Thanks for the enthusiastic posting - and I really appreciate the offer for help re manning safety boats.

The suggestion that the club should become a focal point for all water sports users in Portobello was made informally at a meeting held to discuss the petition to the Scottish Executive to ban Jet Skis! Attending were the RYA, various noise and land-use people from the City Council, Lawrence Marshall, and the Police, plus the petition proposer.

It was made clear that the proposed location for the new club is inappropriate for PWC activity both on and off the water. However the outcome of the meeting was the suggestion of a management plan for their current launching point at the bottom of Kings Street which should keep all parties, Jet Skiers, local residents and beach users, happy(er).

It also emerged that to date the PWC folk are not organised in anyway - do not have a club as such and as a consequence are more difficult to communicate / deal with than if they were. So I recognise that local PWC community would benefit from being allied to the club, â€˜though I am not convinced that the sport is a natural bedfellow with sailing and kayaking.

I am also aware of the depth and breadth of feeling against PWCâ€™s and the idea that the club becomes the focal point for the anti PWC lobby is not a particularly appealing one.

Only if the planning application is successful, will the club get off the ground. At this stage it is only an idea. If we are successful, we will establish an administrative body and decide the extent to which the club could involve itself with sports outside the original plan.

It is probably a sensible idea to include the PWC community. I am just not sure I want to deal with everything that comes with it.

Thumper* · Post by Thumper* » 18 Jan 2007, 20:40

Sorry Jonathan, for dropping in on this ...........at what looks like a late stage....you seem to have done your homework.....and I cannot argue with your post, interms of planning and getting up and running.....a great acheivement in itself, for one sporting discipline.let alone a whole host........ your right.... their does'nt seem to be a PWC club, and thats the main focus to all the issues..........

In other parts of the country.......... well established but ailing watersports clubs, have been saved by the addition of other watersports (inc, PWC)............ you don't have this problem ..................

I wish you well............ a mammoth task for those involved ........ And I too would wish to keep it simple in the early day's ............ ihope everyone is on side and that you get your wish

aileenandfearghal · Post by **aileenandfearghal** » 18 Jan 2007, 21:35

A fantastic document. Our fingers are very firmly crossed. Good luck!

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 13 Feb 2007, 21:42

A letter urging objections be sent to the CEC against the proposed sailing club venue has just hit my doormat. It raises perfectly reasonable points and concerns, but is, strangely, completely anonymous..

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 13 Feb 2007, 21:51

The application is 07/00186/FUL

You can view it online here:

Planning Application

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 13 Feb 2007, 21:59

I have to admit I was pricing canoes earlier today

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 13 Feb 2007, 22:06

I would like to see a copy of this letter you received. Can you get it scanned and put online? I'm willing to help out if required.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 13 Feb 2007, 22:20

Not sure I can scan it, but I might be able to photograph it and email it to you

Give me a moment..

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 14 Feb 2007, 07:41

Thanks. Here it is:

Sounds familiar. A well-loved green space that is going to be lost. I'm surprised someone hasn't already started a petition.

Seriously, I have never seen anyone picnic here. Let's face it - it's a dog toilet.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:40

I was pondering this. I am torn between desperately wanting a sailing club here and not wanting to lose any more of Porty's controversial green space.

It's a real pity the amusement arcade waste ground redevelopment didn't have to maintain low height community useage, then there could be a boat yard and potteries there, in grounds already suited to both and so (I think) unobjectionable to those nearby. The old harbour area is even the sort of tidal moorage that Cramond boat club use.. No, stop me now!

Of course, the flip side of using appropriate design, community needs and good precedence to lead prom regeneration might include the rebuilding of Malborough Mansions on that green space, a substantially higher and wider build than a boatyard fence.. Oops.

aileenandfearghal · Post by **aileenandfearghal** » 14 Feb 2007, 12:30

We love the idea of there being a sailing club in porty from a selfish point of view. The beach is right there at the end of Bath Street and it would be amazing to have the facility to get out there and sail.

Being outdoory people and teachers we can also see the benefit to the community as a whole. The more people we can get outside and get involved the better for a whole multitude of reasons.

Being new to the area, we're a bit unaware of the history and politics surrounding these issues - but it's perfectly understandable that people will have objections. If you're not interested in sailing, you're unlikely to see any benefits to having this on your doorstep - only problems. Unfortunatley, such is the nature of life, this is likely to be the case no matter where the club is sited. It is a bit surprising however that the above document tries to sell that piece of grass as some sort of invaluable amenity to the community. Not many would believe that and I think this detracts from their argument.

As far as we know, Jonathan has decided that a sailing club would be a good idea and is doing his best to make this happen. There probably are alternative locations for it, but he has gone ahead with what he sees as the best one and is planning to do it in the most sustainable and considerate way possible.

So, he has put forward his idea and others are putting forward their objections. It is up to the council to decide what is the best thing to do for the community as a whole. This is the way it goes when we're all living in a fairly small space.

Sorry, I seem to be rambling. Just some thoughts on the matter.

Fearghal

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 14 Feb 2007, 12:59

I've been mentioning the idea of a sailing club whenever I've bumped into a neighbour, and now three more local yachters are keen to join in, and get their kids into the water here

None of them had heard anything about it before though, so if that is the average then most folk will only know about it from the letter against it that they got through their doors last night, and won't know where to get more info if they are keen to support/join the sailing club, or even if they just have questions ie about the parking.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 14 Feb 2007, 14:21

I think the 'attractive green space' became an 'unattractive green space' as soon as Miami Vice was erected. The shadow this building casts is so vast that the beach won't be thronged with people at that end because it's freezing! Therefore, the sailing club is a good use of the otherwise unused space and I'm all for it (ha, that fooled you Jefferson

).

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 14 Feb 2007, 15:07

Epykat wrote:(ha, that fooled you Jefferson ).

Not at all. I knew that eventually we would find a patch of grass in Portobello that didn't evoke long distant romantic memories for you.

tom nimmo · Post by **tom nimmo** » 14 Feb 2007, 20:10

Epykat - The only way the white flats will cast a shadow on this piece of ground will be if the sun rises in the west. As far as I'm aware, it still rises in the east. The white flats do provide a solid wind break from the west gales that blow along the prom most days. I do agree that this bit of green space is no more than a dogs toilet and I would think twice about walking on it, never mind having a picnic. I really like the idea of sailing tuition and I would be keen to give it a go if it was on offer. I used to own a canoe which I occaisionally took to the beach so I would be keen to do it again if possible. A vast behind and other such nautical terms, me hearties.

Post by **wangi** » 15 Feb 2007, 10:54

You know, it doesn't stay in the east all day

Late afternoon / early evening in the summer this area will be in shadow.

aileenandfearghal · Post by **aileenandfearghal** » 27 Mar 2007, 11:36

There was a suggestion that we could have a website to help promote the idea of a sailing & kayaking club for Portobello and (assuming permission is granted) can be used as the website of the club.

I've taken it upon myself to set one up: www.sailporty.org.uk

There's not much on there as yet, just a couple of links really. I have put on a discussion board though - so any future questions/debates can be shared on there.

If you have any ideas for additions/changes/improvements, please let me know.

Fearghal

Puerto bella · Post by **Puerto bella** » 10 Jul 2007, 00:38

Did the sailing club get permission?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 15 Jul 2007, 21:23

Puerto bella wrote:Did the sailing club get permission?

I got a message from Jonathan while I was on holiday to say that he had been informed by Planning of a further delay in making a decision. Let you know as soon as I hear anything.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 01 Nov 2007, 19:37

Update from Jonathan:

Dear all

After a 10 month wait we are now scheduled for a decision next Wednesday 7th November.

As you will know, this if for the joint application of the café/clubhouse (change of use back to commercial) and to change the use of the adjacent patch of land.

Even if successful, the actual realisation of the club will still be contingent on the success of a further planning application for providing vehicle access onto the land – so that sailors can unhitch their boats safely off the road.

This as you will now means widening the alley at the end of the Straiton Place flats etc.

However if we get the OK on Wednesday it will be a significant milestone.

Fingers crossed.

Regards

Jonathan Bendit

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 05 Nov 2007, 13:16

From today's EN :

Water sports club set to make a big splash at Porty

Post by **wangi** » 05 Nov 2007, 13:44

Poor bit of journalism - reads like the plan has been approved and it's a sure thing. It's still to be discussed on Wednesday.

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

We are sailing, well almost...

In response Soupdragon's posting

Re: Jetskis??

Jetskis

Sailing Club

Re: Sailing Club