Community Council Elections

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 09 May 2006, 20:05

I want to be in an anti-clique clique.

Cleopas · Post by **Cleopas** » 09 May 2006, 20:08

Can someone tell me about community councils? I know of Government and local authority councils but I have never heard about community councils before.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 09 May 2006, 20:18

Welcome to the forum!

Love the avatar.

Here's a link with some info :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_councils

We're very lucky to have several community councillors on board here at POL who I am sure will also give you info.

Cleopas · Post by **Cleopas** » 09 May 2006, 20:37

Thank you, Dadaist. I'll look it up.

I hope you have a fine collection of Dadaism. It is one of my favourite art styles. I like Marcel Duchamp, Raoul Hausmann, Tristan Tzara, Hans Arp and Richard Huelsenbeck.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 09 May 2006, 21:22

Cleopas wrote:Thank you, Dadaist. I'll look it up.

I hope you have a fine collection of Dadaism. It is one of my favourite art styles. I like Marcel Duchamp, Raoul Hausmann, Tristan Tzara, Hans Arp and Richard Huelsenbeck.

I'd love to respond but we really have to maintain thread integrity and discipline here - that is, we're only really allowed to chat about the council of communes here. Do head on over to the main forum for other gossip and tittle-tattle - and our thread which welcomes new members.

Cleopas · Post by **Cleopas** » 11 May 2006, 10:40

Consider the integrity of the thread maintained.

I have now studied these community councils articles and read much online and I do not understand why people want yet another level of governance! Do they not trust themselves? Why trust complete strangers to run their lives for them? As far as I can see, anyone who becomes a community councillor (or politician) has their own interests to consider first. It's only when something for the community happens to happily coincide with that self-interest does it become "for the good of the community". Frankly it stinks. It's hopelessly corrupt. Anyone who wants become a councillor has their own agenda and is immediately suspect. Why do it? Self-importance and a chance to A) make some illicit cash for themselves and B) tell people what to do.

And we are told that it is Africa that is corrupt? No - it's the "civilised West" that is more corrupt than any other society on the face of the Earth. Everywhere else, you KNOW who is corrupt and why. Here in the West, it's hidden under a veneer of "good works" ... and it all starts with being on a community council.

No wonder I'm an anarchist!

ali · Post by **ali** » 11 May 2006, 10:45

Cleopas wrote:....... It's only when something for the community happens to happily coincide with that self-interest does it become "for the good of the community". .........................................

Welcome Cleopas. You know, you might just be on to something there..............

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 11 May 2006, 10:48

That's a quality post, whoever you are! I love anarchists since my very early days of reading Class War.

You do know that post is going to be picked apart limb from limb by our resident communal council posse don't you?

Heh. I'm glad it's not me for once - you'd best get ready for a fight.

The following users here are elected community councillors :

Epykat
Marya
Bob
Porty/Stephen McIntyre

You've got a tough time ahead of you, Cleopas. But this is the home of open, mostly friendly, robust semi-debate and at the end of the day everyone here will sit down and buy each other a drink. So far, nobody has to my knowledge been glassed or poured said drink over someone else, so even if it gets hot don't worry - it will cool down.

But yeah, as opening shots go - quality. You're in the lions' den with that post!!!!

edit -> only had one "s" and two "e"s in "posse" and it looked like posy, and the cc members are not a bunch of flowers.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 11 May 2006, 11:19

Cleopas wrote:Consider the integrity of the thread maintained.

I have now studied these community councils articles and read much online and I do not understand why people want yet another level of governance! Do they not trust themselves? Why trust complete strangers to run their lives for them? As far as I can see, anyone who becomes a community councillor (or politician) has their own interests to consider first. It's only when something for the community happens to happily coincide with that self-interest does it become "for the good of the community". Frankly it stinks. It's hopelessly corrupt. Anyone whao wants become a councillor has their own agenda and is immediately suspect. Why do it? Self-importance and a chance to A) make some illicit cash for themselves and B) tell people what to do.

And we are told that it is Africa that is corrupt? No - it's the "civilised West" that is more corrupt than any other society on the face of the Earth. Everywhere else, you KNOW who is corrupt and why. Here in the West, it's hidden under a veneer of "good works" ... and it all starts with being on a community council.

No wonder I'm an anarchist!

I agree with much of what you say but not the money making bit. I'm a new councillor and I hope to influence matters. I have only attended 3 meetings and I felt a bit uncomfortable with some of the sweeping statements and dismissive attitude to some issues. At the same time there are some really good things proposed/achieved by the Council.

Am I suspect? Well I do have new schools as a primary objective but anyone who takes time to read any of my recent posts on the matter will know that I am no longer a suspect. Welcome to the forum. The kid that lives next door to me did a PHD in anarchy at Bristol Uni.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 11 May 2006, 11:36

As an aside I have to say that whilst books on Dada and qualifications in anarchy are fine, I prefer my dada and anarchism to take place live.

The former aren't wrong, but it's a bit like stamp collecting - a collection of stamps looks very nice, but they are much cooler when actually on envelopes getting franked and sending stuff innit.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 11 May 2006, 12:35

Cleopas wrote:Consider the integrity of the thread maintained.

I have now studied these community councils articles and read much online and I do not understand why people want yet another level of governance! Do they not trust themselves? Why trust complete strangers to run their lives for them? As far as I can see, anyone who becomes a community councillor (or politician) has their own interests to consider first. It's only when something for the community happens to happily coincide with that self-interest does it become "for the good of the community". Frankly it stinks. It's hopelessly corrupt. Anyone whao wants become a councillor has their own agenda and is immediately suspect. Why do it? Self-importance and a chance to A) make some illicit cash for themselves and B) tell people what to do.

And we are told that it is Africa that is corrupt? No - it's the "civilised West" that is more corrupt than any other society on the face of the Earth. Everywhere else, you KNOW who is corrupt and why. Here in the West, it's hidden under a veneer of "good works" ... and it all starts with being on a community council.

No wonder I'm an anarchist!

Guilty as charged on all counts

. I've got so much illicit cash and do gooderness in me I just don't know what to do with it all. My self importance is out the window and my "good works" are taking up so much of my time that I don't have time to sit and read my "How to be corrupt from scratch" books.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 11 May 2006, 12:42

5 and the bonus ball

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 11 May 2006, 12:52

I'm wondering if one of the things Celopas has missed is the similarities between him/her and our esteemed community councillors - that is, a desire to change a local or global environment through direct action.

As an anarchist, Cleopas seeks to solve the whole problem - community councillors on the other hand want to change small things and hope that others are doing likewise.

I guess the only (!) argument is a tactical one.

I think also that Cleopas has missed out the grey ground between selfishness and true altruism - that is, reciprocal altruism. The community councillor *is* getting something out of it - a positive change to his or her community. It's not like they are doing it for someone elses beach, path etc - they are being a bit selfish in that they are out for their community.

I think that, amongst the community councillors in the UK, there must be the odd anarcho or two. It would be possible, come the eventual overthrow or downfall of capitalism, for these structures to form some part of a people's government - at least in the short term before the onset of true communism dissolves the need for any and all such groupings and bureaucracies.

So rather than criticise CC's, Cleopas should put his or her money where his or her mouth is, join his or her local CC and use it to end the real corruption of the moneyed classes and the imperialist political elite.

ali · Post by **ali** » 11 May 2006, 13:02

Dadaist wrote:
You do know that post is going to be picked apart limb from limb by our resident communal council posse don't you?

Heh. I'm glad it's not me for once - you'd best get ready for a fight.

You're in the lions' den with that post!!!!

This is a textbook Dada behaviour, Cleo - he warns you that you are about to be ripped apart by others, tells you that you are in the lions den.................... and then turns on you and bares his fangs and roars!!!! (in the nicest possible way, of course).

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 12 May 2006, 00:32

Dadaist wrote:I'm wondering if one of the things Celopas has missed is the similarities between him/her and our esteemed community councillors - that is, a desire to change a local or global environment through direct action.

As an anarchist, Cleopas seeks to solve the whole problem - community councillors on the other hand want to change small things and hope that others are doing likewise.

I guess the only (!) argument is a tactical one.

I think also that Cleopas has missed out the grey ground between selfishness and true altruism - that is, reciprocal altruism. The community councillor *is* getting something out of it - a positive change to his or her community. It's not like they are doing it for someone elses beach, path etc - they are being a bit selfish in that they are out for their community.

I think that, amongst the community councillors in the UK, there must be the odd anarcho or two. It would be possible, come the eventual overthrow or downfall of capitalism, for these structures to form some part of a people's government - at least in the short term before the onset of true communism dissolves the need for any and all such groupings and bureaucracies.

So rather than criticise CC's, Cleopas should put his or her money where his or her mouth is, join his or her local CC and use it to end the real corruption of the moneyed classes and the imperialist political elite.

Jesus gave his life for us all did not ask for anything back!

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 18 May 2006, 06:38

Are these meetings open to the public

If so when and where is the next one or am I to late to get involed

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 18 May 2006, 08:59

Izzie wrote:Are these meetings open to the public

If so when and where is the next one or am I to late to get involed

Izzy, the meetings are held in the Portobello Baptist Church Hall, just off the High Street (near the Portobello Bar). They are open to the public and take place on the last Monday of the month.

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 18 May 2006, 10:04

Thanks for that might come along

What time

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 18 May 2006, 16:59

Izzie wrote:Thanks for that might come along

What time

I'll try to spot you Izzie, though I'm a bit of a sitting duck for you

The meetings usually last from 7.30 to about 9 pm. (depending on whether a new Porty High School is being discussed or not!). The next one is also the AGM.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 18 May 2006, 17:54

I'll try to spot you Izzie, though I'm a bit of a sitting duck for you

Sure enough, those rollers are a bit of a giveaway!!

Cleopas · Post by **Cleopas** » 19 May 2006, 17:15

The mention of Jesus Christ on this board sets my teeth on edge. Or Mohammed, or Buddha, or Siva, Kali and Yaweh!

Religion, as everyone should know, is the Last Refuge of the Scoundrel ... and anyone caught espousing it should be flogged to within an inch of their lives ... flogged again ... and then hung out to dry in a khamsin!

Religion, like politics at all levels is part of the insidious disease that envelopes humanity and threatens to wipe us all out in a nuclear conflagration.

Preists have no right to dabble in politics and vice versa. I consider them enemies of the human race.

Therefore the community council, while it is a democratically good idea sows within itself its own seed of destruction.

If I had been there, I would have forced the damn hemlock down Socrates' throat myself, and then extolled his wife, the shrew Xanthippe as a virtuous woman!

Viva la anarchaos!!!

gilo · Post by **gilo** » 19 May 2006, 17:31

May the good lord have mercy on your soul.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 19 May 2006, 17:40

Gilo wrote:May the good lord have mercy on your soul.

Amen to that brother!

Cleopas · Post by **Cleopas** » 19 May 2006, 17:42

I do not have this "mythical" soul to worry about. So I wouldn't bother about the mercy angle.

I believe in ONE City ONE Council ... and hell mend them when they get it wrong. Put lots of clauses into the acceptance of these positions, and watch the fun begin.

If councils had to deal with real consequences of their policies and actions at the most visceral level ... I'd bet the farm over three quarters would drop out! Hit THEM in the pocket and see THEY like it!

Anarchy is best!

Green Onions · Post by **Green Onions** » 19 May 2006, 19:24

Absolutely agree that the council should be responsible for the decisions that it makes on our behalf. However, I don't think that there is anything wrong in local mechanisms to get people to act over local issues.

One thing that I find pretty annoying is the way that lots of people claim they don't want a nanny state and yet if a problem comes up that affects them personally then they expect the council or Govt to do everything. I think it sets up a real parent/child relationship which disempowers us all. If there is something we believe affects our community then we should be prepared to act on that and I guess community councils are supposed to be one mechanism to do that.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 19 May 2006, 20:35

Cleopas wrote:Therefore the community council, while it is a democratically good idea sows within itself its own seed of destruction

The Community Council hasn't half got exciting lately

(I'll look out for you Izzie. I'm not as easy to spot as Marya because in real life my face isn't that colour - unless I've overdone the sunbed)

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 19 May 2006, 20:54

Porty wrote:I'm a new councillor and I hope to influence matters....

Sorry, just noticed that!

Cleopas · Post by **Cleopas** » 19 May 2006, 22:14

I am, btw ... a him ... not the kind you sing in church however ... unless you're inclined like that.

I do have a little political experience and that is probably what makes me reach for my ancestral assegai when someone mentions the "altruism" of councillors and religious people. I still believe my ancestors had the right idea that missionaries were just large hairless pigs and good to eat. The same applies to the colonialists that swindled Africa away from Africans and raped the continent for its resources since prehistorical times. I would've done for Rhodes and Livingstone!

I watched Will and Grace earlier and heard a GREAT line from Rosario ... "Sleep with the light on, white man ... you're time is coming!"

I would apply that to community councillors and others right up to government level ... then it's the UN!

"Embrace Anarchy for a better life!"

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 24 May 2006, 21:54

Is the meeting in the Baptist Church or libary I have 2 sets of info please help 2 confused girls

It is on monday is it at 7 30pm

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 25 May 2006, 08:49

Baptist Church Hall, up the vennel next to the Portobello Bar. The last Monday of each month (except July and December from memory) at 7:30 pm sharp.

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 30 May 2006, 18:28

Well who spotted me then

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 30 May 2006, 19:21

It was a very well-attended meeting. Did you stay for a drink afterwards? You should have introduced yourself, though Maria and I were ambushed and didn't get much of a chance to socialise.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 30 May 2006, 19:28

I'm delighted to report that Margaret Smith has been resurrected as a Community Councillor. She now represents the Labour Group. And the 15th and final local interest group slot has now been taken and as soon as I remember who they are I'll let you know! The Portobello Amnesia Group perhaps.

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 30 May 2006, 19:42

Yes stayed for a drink and was sitting to the right and in front of you.I think I was about 2 seats away from Maria.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 30 May 2006, 20:46

Izzie wrote:Yes stayed for a drink and was sitting to the right and in front of you.I think I was about 2 seats away from Maria.

Marya and I did debate whether or not that was you but the red herring was that you were sitting beside a man and not a lady (as previously stated in another post). We were almost going to introduce ourselves but both of us got caught up elsewhere, sorry

. A waste of a good bagging opportunity