Cllr Marshall
In comments you made in the Evening News, you referred to discussions on porty.org.uk message boards as "gossip" and "tittle-tattle".
Were you referring to the "Portobello Online" general discussion sub-forum, this forum ("Portobello Matters"), or the entire message board?
Matthew Hunter
Councillor Lawrence Marshall
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Lawrence Marshall
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Matthew,
Bob Jefferson has kindly alerted me to your posting above. This perhaps illustrates that I don't have the time to be able to "surf" the website looking for stuff. I can do so only very occasionally given that, for instance, I've only been able to sit at my computer for just over an hour so far this week due to work, committee meetings, meetings in Portobello, police briefings, etc..
The main thrust of my comment was really directed at the anonymity of postings on the various forums. This may be common to all such discussion forums but it goes against the whole ethos of public life where you have to be accountable for what you say. Folk on the forum simply aren't - although I accept that, if they overstep the mark, their postings will be removed.
This analogy shouldn't be pushed too far, and I do so with a hint of devil's advocacy, but, when this summer I was looking through Stasi files in the Stasi prison in the centre of Rostock in the old East Germany, I was struck by how all the files had been written up meticulously as folk had been spied upon and followed, etc. but were all anonymous and penned under pseudonyms such as you can see on discussion forums today.
The poor folk whose lives were sometimes thereby destroyed had, of course, no redress or comeback such as a discussion forum affords, but I still think that it illustrates that an open society is one is which people put their own name to things and can thereby be held accountable.
So, thanks Matthew for putting your real name to things!
Lawrence
Bob Jefferson has kindly alerted me to your posting above. This perhaps illustrates that I don't have the time to be able to "surf" the website looking for stuff. I can do so only very occasionally given that, for instance, I've only been able to sit at my computer for just over an hour so far this week due to work, committee meetings, meetings in Portobello, police briefings, etc..
The main thrust of my comment was really directed at the anonymity of postings on the various forums. This may be common to all such discussion forums but it goes against the whole ethos of public life where you have to be accountable for what you say. Folk on the forum simply aren't - although I accept that, if they overstep the mark, their postings will be removed.
This analogy shouldn't be pushed too far, and I do so with a hint of devil's advocacy, but, when this summer I was looking through Stasi files in the Stasi prison in the centre of Rostock in the old East Germany, I was struck by how all the files had been written up meticulously as folk had been spied upon and followed, etc. but were all anonymous and penned under pseudonyms such as you can see on discussion forums today.
The poor folk whose lives were sometimes thereby destroyed had, of course, no redress or comeback such as a discussion forum affords, but I still think that it illustrates that an open society is one is which people put their own name to things and can thereby be held accountable.
So, thanks Matthew for putting your real name to things!
Lawrence
Your published comment didn't mention anonymity, nor have you answered my question as to whether your "gossip" and "tittle tattle" remark was directed at the "Portobello Online" general discussion sub-forum, this forum ("Portobello Matters"), or the entire message board.
Spare us the GDR rubbish and try answering the question.
Spare us the GDR rubbish and try answering the question.
The exact quotation from Lawrence was:
"The website has been really good at raising issues, although some elements, such as the discussion forums, are little more than gossip and tittle-tattle."
Seems clear that he means ALL POL discussion forums are little more than gossip and tittle-tattle but I am less clear about what parts of the website "has been good at raising issues". How can both statements by Lawrence have integrity?
"The website has been really good at raising issues, although some elements, such as the discussion forums, are little more than gossip and tittle-tattle."
Seems clear that he means ALL POL discussion forums are little more than gossip and tittle-tattle but I am less clear about what parts of the website "has been good at raising issues". How can both statements by Lawrence have integrity?
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Pal of Porty
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LawrenceLawrence Marshall wrote:...... I've only been able to sit at my computer for just over an hour so far this week due to work, committee meetings, meetings in Portobello, police briefings, etc.. Lawrence
You may find that if you answer the question rather than skirting round the issue (as you did in this instance with Matthew), you could use your 1 hour more effectively!
Dave Davidson
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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Lawrence Marshall
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- Location: Portobello & City Chambers
Anonymity encourages "gossip" and "tittle-tattle" precisely because such postings lack real-life accountability. I understand that people feel able more easily to post their comments when doing so "under cover" - but it's simply not open and transparent and is obviously against the codes of conduct to which local councillors, regardless of party, have to sign up to.
As for the Portobello Online website, I think that there are two main sections which receive postings in a discussion forum manner. The issues raised are often of importance but there seems to me also be a lot of mis-information and back-biting in the columns which having to post under your real name would soon dispel. Have you ever wondered why a significant number of folk in Portobello active in the local community refuse to look at the site or post on to it?
As for the Portobello Online website, I think that there are two main sections which receive postings in a discussion forum manner. The issues raised are often of importance but there seems to me also be a lot of mis-information and back-biting in the columns which having to post under your real name would soon dispel. Have you ever wondered why a significant number of folk in Portobello active in the local community refuse to look at the site or post on to it?
But then again consider that from the other perspective - there are a lot of folk who do participate here (both in serious and less so discussions) that are not "active in the local community" (in quotes because this site is part of it too)...Lawrence Marshall wrote:Have you ever wondered why a significant number of folk in Portobello active in the local community refuse to look at the site or post on to it?
... And i'd wager the perceived stuffyness certainly has something to do with that.
This site therefore draws more folk into discussing Portobello than otherwise would do so. That cannot be a bad thing.
Lawrence, having stated that you visit POL only "very occasionally" do you believe it was fair and reasonable of you, an elected representative, to disrespect our forums and forum members with the following quote in the Evening News:Lawrence Marshall wrote: Matthew,
.......This perhaps illustrates that I don't have the time to be able to "surf" the website looking for stuff. I can do so only very occasionally …... Lawrence
I find the dig to be totally inappropriate particularly when the featured article in the EN was among the best PR this site has had.Lawrence Marshall wrote: "The website has been really good at raising issues, although some elements, such as the discussion forums, are little more than gossip and tittle-tattle."
You have made the point that you rarely visit, why did you choose to dis us to the wider public?
What was in it for you to do so?
Stephen
(Those are fairly direct questions, direct answers would be appreciated)
I agree.Porty wrote:I find the dig to be totally inappropriate particularly when the featured article in the EN was among the best PR this site has had.
You have made the point that you rarely visit, why did you choose to dis us to the wider public?
What was in it for you to do so?
It doesn't endear you to the voting public. For note, I use my "real" name.
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Pal of Porty
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Lawrence,Lawrence Marshall wrote:..... I understand that people feel able more easily to post their comments when doing so "under cover" - but it's simply not open and transparent and is obviously against the codes of conduct to which local councillors, regardless of party, have to sign up to.
I have been an active socialist for most of my adult life. Over the last thirty years I have held senior positions in a trades union and in local government and until my retirement last year I was an advisor to both the UK and European parliaments. Throughout that time I have been subject to Official Secrets legislation, party whips, political and other embargos and peer pressure, all of which were designed to prevent the operation of government being 'open and transparent'. Porty Online hardly compares.
An open, transparent and sensible decision was made to separate out the 'serious' matters from the 'lighter' by creating the Portobello Matters forum for the former and Portobello Online for the latter. I think, if you take the time to study them both, you will find that serious matters are treated as such, and the lighter ones range from the frivilous to the downright rude.
I choose to operate under a pseudonym, not because I am afraid to put my head above the parapet, but because IT'S FUN, and as a silver surfer I try to get all the fun I can out of life.
It seems to me that you are overworking. Take some time off, grab a secret identity and join in. You might find you like the cut and thrust of debate with your constituents ( or there again, you might not.)
Regards,
David Irving
I have nothing to say and I'm going to say it.
Most regular posters here know me, my wife, my daughter and where we live and work.Cllr LM wrote: it goes against the whole ethos of public life where you have to be accountable for what you say. Folk on the forum simply aren't
We've all been round to each others houses etc and, especially for people who have moved to Portobello from elsewhere, this has been a very positive community-oriented experience. I put it to you that you are a dinosaur.
Matty
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Bob Jefferson
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As the person responsible for starting this forum I feel obliged to contribute to this thread. Let's put aside the question of anonymity. Yes we follow the accepted convention of allowing posters to adopt a username of their choice but there is nevertheless a degree of accountability in that we have details of members' email and IP addresses. The top 20 posters are by now all known to each other and in a small community like Portobello it's not difficult to work out who is who.
In addition to this, we have a set of posting guidelines and a team of moderators who take their responsibility very seriously. Finding a balance in moderation that allows ‘free speech' while not being offensive to others is certainly not easy but, on the whole, I think we do a pretty good job. We want to encourage as many people as possible to use and enjoy the forum but we recognise that, with the best will in the world, we are never going to please everyone. For some, this means of communication is just not their thing and never will be. Many others are lurkers, happy to read the posts of others but not interested in contributing their own, for whatever reason. Older members of the community may not have internet access or the skills to use this facility. Many people, like yourself, simply do not have the time.
However, the forum is successful because many local people (including community activists) do use the forum and find it to be useful, entertaining and enjoyable. We currently have 428 registered users (and growing) – a significant section of the local community, including many of your local constituents and I'm sure that at least some of these people will have felt offended by your EN comments. Sure, a lot of the content is light-hearted and of little consequence but these social exchanges are nevertheless important. This is the virtual street-corner where people meet and exchange pleasantries, ideas and information. This is about social cohesion. In a few weeks time 25 people, who until relatively recently were largely unknown to each other, will share a Xmas meal in a local restaurant. For me, that in itself makes the forum worthwhile, but it is much more than this.
As a result of the forum, local people are now much better informed of local issues and empowered to participate in decision making processes. We have a network of information that means we often have local stories before the EN and sometimes even before our local councillors. We have people who care about their community and are prepared to give up their own valuable time for worthwhile projects, such as our Artifacts clean-up and our current local history project. We provide a platform for any local group that wishes to promote its activities. It's a self-help community – we recommend books and local tradesmen to each other, for example, and we provide a facility to buy, sell (but mostly give away) items. Forum members have set up a community internet radio station. Forum members are in the process of setting up a community internet TV station. We have organised visits to the Scottish Parliament and a number of other social events.
We provide (free of charge) private forums to any local group that wants one. As an example, I have on more than one occasion attempted to interest Community Council members in having their own private, hidden, ‘by invitation only' forum. This would enable members to continue discussion and debate of important local matters that we often don't have time to cover in any depth during our 10 x 2 hour meetings per annum. No gossip, no tittle-tattle – just serious online discussion. The response to this offer? Nothing. Nevertheless, the offer remains open.
So, if you are correct and our 30000+ posts amount to little more than gossip and tittle tattle then the answer is in the hands of our detractors. After all, the forum is simply a facility, a blank canvas, and it is the people of Portobello who provide the content. Those who criticise the standard of discussion are very welcome to add quality by registering and posting their own messages. They will be made very welcome.
After all, the way to improve anything is to be a part of it - the reason you are a member of the Labour Party surely?
In addition to this, we have a set of posting guidelines and a team of moderators who take their responsibility very seriously. Finding a balance in moderation that allows ‘free speech' while not being offensive to others is certainly not easy but, on the whole, I think we do a pretty good job. We want to encourage as many people as possible to use and enjoy the forum but we recognise that, with the best will in the world, we are never going to please everyone. For some, this means of communication is just not their thing and never will be. Many others are lurkers, happy to read the posts of others but not interested in contributing their own, for whatever reason. Older members of the community may not have internet access or the skills to use this facility. Many people, like yourself, simply do not have the time.
However, the forum is successful because many local people (including community activists) do use the forum and find it to be useful, entertaining and enjoyable. We currently have 428 registered users (and growing) – a significant section of the local community, including many of your local constituents and I'm sure that at least some of these people will have felt offended by your EN comments. Sure, a lot of the content is light-hearted and of little consequence but these social exchanges are nevertheless important. This is the virtual street-corner where people meet and exchange pleasantries, ideas and information. This is about social cohesion. In a few weeks time 25 people, who until relatively recently were largely unknown to each other, will share a Xmas meal in a local restaurant. For me, that in itself makes the forum worthwhile, but it is much more than this.
As a result of the forum, local people are now much better informed of local issues and empowered to participate in decision making processes. We have a network of information that means we often have local stories before the EN and sometimes even before our local councillors. We have people who care about their community and are prepared to give up their own valuable time for worthwhile projects, such as our Artifacts clean-up and our current local history project. We provide a platform for any local group that wishes to promote its activities. It's a self-help community – we recommend books and local tradesmen to each other, for example, and we provide a facility to buy, sell (but mostly give away) items. Forum members have set up a community internet radio station. Forum members are in the process of setting up a community internet TV station. We have organised visits to the Scottish Parliament and a number of other social events.
We provide (free of charge) private forums to any local group that wants one. As an example, I have on more than one occasion attempted to interest Community Council members in having their own private, hidden, ‘by invitation only' forum. This would enable members to continue discussion and debate of important local matters that we often don't have time to cover in any depth during our 10 x 2 hour meetings per annum. No gossip, no tittle-tattle – just serious online discussion. The response to this offer? Nothing. Nevertheless, the offer remains open.
So, if you are correct and our 30000+ posts amount to little more than gossip and tittle tattle then the answer is in the hands of our detractors. After all, the forum is simply a facility, a blank canvas, and it is the people of Portobello who provide the content. Those who criticise the standard of discussion are very welcome to add quality by registering and posting their own messages. They will be made very welcome.
After all, the way to improve anything is to be a part of it - the reason you are a member of the Labour Party surely?
Porty wrote:So, finally I ken yir name! No wonder you have hidden behind your anonymous guise for so long, with all that poop you post.Gemini wrote:Anne
haha - a bit like the kettle calling the pot black - you have been known
to post the biggest load of *** this side of the Forth!
http://www.00fun.com/lostmytoot04.shtml
Are you inferring I'm a has been?Gemini wrote:- you have been known
to post the biggest load of *** this side of the Forth!
http://www.00fun.com/lostmytoot04.shtml
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Pal of Porty
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mr magnolia
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Pal of Porty
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Oh, and here was I, thinking I was laughing with you, not at youmr magnolia wrote:Epykat wrote:Lawrence should get himself a new username (we could even suggest a few) and have a bit of FUN
You think this is fun?
I'm only here from a sense of civic pride.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!