Punch Taverns - meeting with management

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 27 May 2005, 01:23

I passionately believe that the way to solve problems is through communication. History shows many examples where it has proved the ultimate solution.

What "profanity filters" me about this thread, is that if you say anything like "the noise in the pub down stairs is doing my brain in," it is deemed negative but "we want to talk to Punch about their future role in Portobello" then this is deemed positive. If I lived next door to say, 'The Tides Inn,' I think I would find it very hard to be deemed as a 'positive' contributer to this thread by many POL members.

I am very fortunate that I live in a relatively peaceful part of Portobello. However I do sincerely wish that all you "Punch Tavern talk about the Futures ' will soon have a Tides Inn clone as your next door neighbour (I believe stem cell technology will soon make this a possibility).

Perhaps then you will 'postively' post about how Punch will be changing their modus operandi but I suspect your agenda at the meeting with Punch would be somewhat altered!

maureen mclaughlin · Post by **maureen mclaughlin** » 27 May 2005, 18:44

Pal of porty, you are absolutely correct!

I have live in KingÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Road for 13 yr, from the out set I was aware that you canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t live above a pub and not expect some noise on occasions. During my 13yr I have never have cause to complain about noise, so it would seam that over the past 13yr this pub was run by proprietors who were aware that they had restrictions and a duty to neighbours and the community. I did not wake up one morning and say, Ha IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m going to take on the Tides Inn for my next project. I have done this for the sake of my own mental well being. It is a sad state of affairs when you canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t relax in your own home because what ever room you go in to is filled with the sound of loud music. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t live directly above so I really sympathise with those who do.
I would not have believed that this situation could cause so much stress and believe me, I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t stress easily. However this situation has undoubtedly had an effect. You canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t sleep as the noise continues until 12.30sh, then you have another 30min or so of people shouting, arguing and fighting etc.
Bed times on Fri and sat are now about 2am. There have been times when I have had to start work at 7am so you can imagine the state IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m in. I would not wish this on any one.
So talk all you want and hopeful you get action, but I want action now.
Maureen

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 03 Jun 2005, 07:34

Any news on last night's meeting?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 03 Jun 2005, 21:04

Well, it was Brian's gig so I'm leaving it up to him to report, but I felt it went very well. Lawrence, Maureen and Inspector Norrie Ward were all in attendance, along with the lesses of the Tides Inn and Utopia Beach Life and the area managers concerned.

All the current issues were given a good airing and I think we can expect improvements. Over to you Brian.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 03 Jun 2005, 21:50

Bob Jefferson wrote:Well, it was Brian's gig so I'm leaving it up to him to report, but I felt it went very well. Lawrence, Maureen and Inspector Norrie Ward were all in attendance, along with the lesses of the Tides Inn and Utopia Beach Life and the area managers concerned.

All the current issues were given a good airing and I think we can expect improvements. Over to you Brian.

And to you; Maureen and other neighbours of Punch.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 04 Jun 2005, 16:11

Anyone fancy a challenge?

Scroll down until you get to the Pop Inn. When you have a school with a bad rep they send in a Super HT to sort it out, someone with a proven track record. I think what we need here is a Super Publican. From our conversation the other night, I don't think Punch see this as anything other than a no-frills working men's pub. Fair enough, they can't all be trendy cafÃƒÂ©-bars.

Still, there is plenty of room for improvement in a pub that was voted the worst in Portobello in an online poll. We expect an orderly-run establishment, an over 21's policy to keep out the under-age drinkers and someone who is going to ensure that there is no trouble of any kind in or around the premises.

You'll see that the Figgate Whins is also featured on this page.

maureen mclaughlin · Post by **maureen mclaughlin** » 04 Jun 2005, 18:34

That great! But how come I can hear music in my house from the Tides Inn.

Brian McCrow · Post by **Brian McCrow** » 05 Jun 2005, 13:06

Meeting with Punch Taverns on Thursday 2/6/05

Present:

Elaine Kennedy, Leslie Welsh Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Punch Taverns
Alastair Tillbrook Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Utopia Beach Life lessee
Yvonne Whitson Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Tides Inn lessee
Marie Taylor Ã¢â‚¬â€œ local resident living above Tides Inn
Cllrs. Maureen Child, Lawrence Marshall
Inspector Norman Ward
Portobello Community Council - Bob Jefferson, Brian McCrow

The aim of the meeting was to create and on-going relationship and dialogue between Punch Taverns management, the lessees of their pubs in Portobello and the Portobello Community and to provide a forum for the sharing of views on the needs and desires of the local community versus the business needs of Punch Taverns and their lessees.

Elaine Kennedy explained the Punch Taverns business model, which is that Punch acquire the premises and refurbish them to fit different types of pubs appropriate to the neighbourhood. They interview, train and appoint lessees who have to submit a detailed Business plan prior to appointment. The lessees are then totally responsible for the operation of their pub business including adherence to the Public House licence and the attendant Environment Health regulations. They are normally granted 10 year renewable lease although shorter leases are sometimes granted, typically as part of their lessee approval process.

Punch Taverns are the second largest pub company in the UK with over 8,500 premises.

Any problems with the operation of a pub should be addressed directly to the lessee in the first place as itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s their business and their licence. The lessees assured us that they are sensitive to the needs of and issues for local residents and their customers. If an issue persists it can be raised with the Punch management who will discuss the resolution with the lessee. Ultimately, an issue can be raised with Environmental Health and/or the Police.

We certainly felt that the lessees and Punch managers were genuinely concerned about resolving issues preferably through face to face discussions. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve listed below some of the issues and proposed resolution.

Tides Inn. Yvonne Whitson has many years experience of running pubs and is very concerned about the issues reported in the Forum. As she has only been in the pub for 9 weeks it has taken some time to realise the root cause of the noise issues. It appears that the loudspeakers are positioned at the back of the pub close to a door, which opens onto the stairwell for the flats above. She is having the speakers moved over the next couple of weeks to reduce the noise. A limiter is also being fitted to the jukebox to prevent loud music being played. These are problems she has inherited and is now fixing them. She had one problem with violence from a gang of youths from Niddrie who had been kicked out of the First & Last pub for bad behaviour and came down to the Tides Inn to cause trouble. She contacted the police and closed the bar once the police had moved the gang on. She said that she hasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t had any other violence in her pub. As she builds her regular trade she has had to bar only a small number of customers for inappropriate behaviour. The pub is now for over 21s only.

Lawrence Marshall has agreed to arrange a meeting between Maureen McLaughlin and the lessee, Yvonne Whitson.

Utopia Beach Life. Alastair Tillbrook has run a very successful pub in Easter Road Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Utopia, where he provides quality food. He hasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t had any issues with this pub. He will be spending more time at this new pub over the coming months to get it established. He is targeting the 20 to 30 year old market with good beers and a quality seafood restaurant. Unfortunately, he canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t get the restaurant fully operational until Transco install a commercial gas supply, which may take a number of weeks. If he can get funding from Coors heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll put up awnings and have outdoor seating.

He also said that if customers have any issues they should discuss them directly with him. If heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not in the pub you can ask for his mobile number.

Now he is concerned that he has had windows broken on 4 occasions after the pub was closed and the toilet has been vandalised. This is of concern to him as he thought Portobello was a safe community. He hasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t had these problems at Easter Road.

Pop Inn. This is on a short term lease and they are looking for a new lessee. Discussions are taking place on the need for refurbishment.

Figgate Whins. There will be a major refurbishment including additional soundproofing. They plan to have it as a bistro type bar with sandwiches, paninis, good wine and beer ranges, coffee for relaxed eating and drinking with no games or TV. They expect to open in Sept/Oct 2005.

Future meeting. We plan to communicate directly over the coming months with a similar meeting in 6 months time.

The strong message is if you have an issue discuss it directly with the lessee in the first instance and as soon as possible so it can get fixed.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:27

Sounds very worthwhile Brian and the lines of communication are clear. Should we still keep an ongoing on-line record of incidences? (hopefully dormant)

Brian McCrow · Post by **Brian McCrow** » 05 Jun 2005, 15:44

I think it would be very useful to use the Forum to record incidents. I know that the Punch management do have a look.

I've also agreed to show Yvonne at the Tides Inn how to access the Forum once she gets her PC on-line.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 05 Jun 2005, 16:10

One of the things that came out of the meeting was the revelation that the forum was widely read by those present, including the Inspector. The concensus was that the website and the forum were very informative and entertaining.

We are sometimes still criticised in some quarters for the number of 'negative' posts, but the fact is that Maureen and others have been able to air their genuine grievances, that Brian has taken the initiative and arranged this meeting and that actions arising from that should hopefully make a difference to the quality of life of those affected, while opening new lines of communication to deal with any future issues. And if we have in some small way helped to influence the direction of the next batch of Punch-owned Porty pubs, then all the better.

For me, that's Portobello Online at its best - people working together to create a better community.

maureen mclaughlin · Post by **maureen mclaughlin** » 06 Jun 2005, 18:29

If the meeting with Punch pubs has brought about positive changes then that's great.
However I wish to point out a number of concerns that I continue to have, as to why I don't think you should be slapping each other on the backs just yet.
It is noted that the licensee is very experienced. However experience does not somehow guarantee a good or competent manger. I think we can all think of some one who we work with, who is very experienced, yet not good at their job.
The licensee has highlighted a number of issues and possible solutions in relation to the problem of noise from the pub. That is fantastic, as there is now an acknowledgement that there is a problem in relation to the pub and noise disturbance.
I feel however I have to point out that environmental health has engaged with the licensee on numerous occasions, It has been they who not only highlighted these issues but also provided the solutions. The lead environmental health officer is in constant contact with other complainants and myself. They have witnessed such disturbance and discussed with us theories and possible solutions as to how to resolve these issues. The vast majority of these issues were raised very early on. Although 9 weeks later remain unresolved.
As has been highlighted the pub has been open for 9 weeks. Why would that matter, unless this experienced licencee is suggesting its ok for our peace to be disturbed whilst they experiment with various events and noise levels as they're just settling in.
In relation to disturbances and violent incidents from this pub? I have only seen the police respond to one serious incident, which is the same incident the licensee has referred to. Why did this alleged group from Niddrie make their way to the Tides Inn, lets face it. Its a pub off the beaten track? That is very strange in itself. There are numerous incidents of minor (as in police terms) disturbances i.e., shouting and screaming and the occasional blow being flung. I wouldn't dream of calling the police to such an incident, however I can assure you these incidents occur regularly.
It is suggested that the licensee has inherited many of these problems. Well I find that hard to believe, as there has never been noise disturbance to this extent and consistency in the past. It was very rare for me to hear noise from this pub.
The licensee was advised following a sound level test of a Karoke night that an expectable noise level could not be found, so therefor they were unable to have future Karoka nights. Yet the next week they went ahead and had a karoka night.
This is definitely the action of someone that is experienced and committed to working towards resolving issues.
I note it was agreed at the Portobello prefects meeting that Lawrence is to set up a meeting with the licensee and I. Not sure if Lawrence is going to hold our hands or coats.
It has never been fully explained to me why I couldn't attend to the original PRIVATE prefects meeting; other than if you want a meeting then set up you own meeting.
Now for whatever reason, the prefects think its good to talk and I've to meet with the licensees. There are many many answers and comments that come to mind but I will refrain from airing them. However I think you can safely say I'm not impressed. Who put you lot in charge and where do you get of on dictating what meetings I'm welcome at and what meetings I'm not.
ACTIONS ARE BETER THAN WORDS, some times.
Maureen

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 06 Jun 2005, 19:03

And the licensee will be judged on her actions. I think that it is in her interests to resolve these matters since she is now very much aware that both local councillors, the local Police Inspector, Punch management and the many people who read this forum are all taking a keen interest.

And by now, if Brian has done his job, she should be able to access these posts.

You may not appreciate our efforts. That's OK, we're not asking for thanks. I hope you have a constructive meeting with the licensee and that your next post is a happier one.

maureen mclaughlin · Post by **maureen mclaughlin** » 06 Jun 2005, 19:22

How IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m I meant to know what effort you have went to when to. I was not allowed to attend the meeting.
Either way IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m in a win win situation. As either IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m proven Wright which is the worst win or the licensee doses stop the loud music which is the best win. I think you forgot to mention the Environmental health team who have done an excellent job so far.
Maureen

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Jun 2005, 20:22

maureen mclaughlin wrote: ACTIONS ARE BETER THAN WORDS, some times.
Maureen

Why don't you get Brian to suggest that for the Tides Inn Karoka? (or is that Karoke?)

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 06 Jun 2005, 20:53

Mo

At least the Prefects at my high school were picked on merit and popularity.

Heaven forbid if they had appointed themselves...

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 06 Jun 2005, 20:59

So were you a prefect Dada?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:05

Bob Jefferson wrote:So were you a prefect Dada?

Hahahahaha. Round about the same time that the goody goodies were being made prefects, I got suspended!

thumper · Post by **thumper** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:13

can i ask was the tides inn a pub when you moved to the area M

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:21

Dadaist wrote:
Bob Jefferson wrote:So were you a prefect Dada?
Hahahahaha. Round about the same time that the goody goodies were being made prefects, I got suspended!

I think they stopped the prefect system a year or two before I made sixth year. At the time I would certainly have refused such a title, but now I'm not so sure. Hmm, 'Portobello Prefect' - it has a bit of a ring to it. Do I get to wear a badge? Gold braid?

maureen mclaughlin · Post by **maureen mclaughlin** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:22

It was thumper and as stated earlier, I didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t move in to the flat 13yr ago and not expecting to hear noise act. The pub has had a number of licences over this period and I have never had any cause to complain over the proceeding 13 yr. In fact I was none in the past to have the odd pint there.
Maureen

thumper · Post by **thumper** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:28

i was wondering i see it all the time people buy houses/flats near pubs then complain about the noise...what do you expect !!!!!!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:40

thumper wrote:i was wondering i see it all the time people buy houses/flats near pubs then complain about the noise...what do you expect !!!!!!

I hope you never have noisy neighbours thumpy. I mean you bought your house next to other people...what do you expect!!!!!!

maureen mclaughlin · Post by **maureen mclaughlin** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:47

Dadaist, brilliant as usual. I bet before they suspended you, you were allowed to meet to discuss the issues why. Or did they just invite a few of your friends and teachers to talk for you. Cause obviously thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s the best way to mange and communication.
Maureen

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:56

Maureen would you say things are better or worse than June 15th 2004 when you had this to say:

maureen mclaughlin wrote:I was wondering if I am the only porty resident who is sick to the back teeth of the noise polution, from the the unwanted jet ski's and speed boats. I am resident at the bottom of King's Road and this has been an issue for many years. I read in the paper that locked gates were being installed but as yet the gates have not be fitted. I am not against peaple having fun but I dont understand why they are allowed to make so much noise in a built up aria. There is after all a long cost line. On Sunday we had aproximitly 6000 plus people run along the promenade (which was greart). You would not have none they were there but an hour or so later we had two jet ski's which went on to make noise for the next four or five hours. This cant be right? What are other veiws. maureen

?

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:57

Hold the next love in with Punch Taverns at the Tides Inn - they can always say they couldn't hear you instead of just taking no action. And please note you cannot say this is a negative post - I was a prefect at school!

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 06 Jun 2005, 22:06

Bob Jefferson wrote: I think they stopped the prefect system a year or two before I made sixth year. At the time I would certainly have refused such a title, but now I'm not so sure. Hmm, 'Portobello Prefect' - it has a bit of a ring to it. Do I get to wear a badge? Gold braid?

Bob if it fulfills a thwarted ambition of yours, you could always change the moderator job title to POL Prefect and get some braid for your t-shirt

thumper · Post by **thumper** » 06 Jun 2005, 22:07

[quote="
I hope you never have noisy neighbours thumpy. I mean you bought your house next to other people...what do you expect!!!!!![/quote]

SEE your not that great i live in a burrow well away from all the noise...

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 06 Jun 2005, 22:17

foxy wrote:Bob if it fulfills a thwarted ambition of yours, you could always change the moderator job title to POL Prefect and get some braid for your t-shirt

No, it doesn't matter now. If I wasn't popular enough or merit-worthy first time round....

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 06 Jun 2005, 22:32

Porty wrote:
maureen mclaughlin wrote: ACTIONS ARE BETER THAN WORDS, some times.
Maureen
Why don't you get Brian to suggest that for the Tides Inn Karoka? (or is that Karoke?)

Cherokee - hokey kokey - Who TFC -You would not put up with it! and neither would I.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Jun 2005, 22:34

Don't you think actions would be quieter than words at Krakatoke?

maureen mclaughlin · Post by **maureen mclaughlin** » 06 Jun 2005, 22:53

Porty, re the jet skies. No itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s just the same, It just depends if itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a nice day or not. If itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a nice day then there out in force if not there not usually any. A few weeks ago one off the skiers drove his van up to the water then went away on his jet ski. When he came back to shore the water was up to the wheels and he couldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t move it. He then run in and out of the water then up and down the beach talking to some one on his mobile. The police then arrived and by this time the water was up to the bonnet of the van and it looked as if the waves would tip it over. The van was eventually toed away but a large farm vehicle didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know what it was. Any way they've not been around much since then. I have to say it was the funniest thing I had seen for a long time. I had great photos but my computer crashed and I lost them as I stupidly did not put them on disc. If any one knows how to retrieve them from the hard drive then IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll post them if your interested.
Maureen

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 06 Jun 2005, 23:34

Porty wrote:Don't you think actions would be quieter than words at Krakatoke?

Mechanix - Krakatoke (Unr.) ? do you think So Porty?

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 07 Jun 2005, 00:22

Porty wrote:................... Krakatoke?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 07 Jun 2005, 07:05

thumper wrote:
dadaist wrote: I hope you never have noisy neighbours thumpy. I mean you bought your house next to other people...what do you expect!!!!!!
SEE your not that great i live in a burrow well away from all the noise...

Yes, I though you were talking out of your burrow.