Drunken idiots....

[cevans]

Is anyone else fed up of the drunken bums on Bath Street who insist on shouting "Scotland" and other such chants (most of them expletives) at the top of their voices late at night?

I came back from a lovely holiday a couple of weeks ago, and first night back, some drunken idiot woke me up by singing loudly at 2 o'clock in the morning waking up half the street. When someone had the nerve to ask him to be quiet, the abuse the poor woman got was terrible. Someone shouted from another window and off he went again threatening to do all sorts to him.

Last night the same person was singing and shouting his head off, but this time he had found a few friends to join in the singing. Great.

Is there anything that can be done about these idiots who are disturbing my sleep and making me very cranky indeed?? There is no way that the police didn't hear the noise as most of it seemed to take place at the top end of Bath Street and the high street.

Maybe this is what I get for buying a flat that has all rooms facing the street.

Fed up..........

[bellybabe]

You have our sympathies - partly because we hear them too and partly because our own street (Mentone Avenue) is the shortcut they take from certain pubs to Bath Street! In fact, in the time we've lived here, we've seen several police chases, one involving racist attacks and bar staff from the Old Pier, we've had a top floor flat petrol-bombed, we've watched someone drunk walk along the street kicking the wing mirrors off every car parked on the street, had various neighbours' cars vandalised, and when we've tried retreating to the back garden we've had to put up with the usual trouble from 12 Bath Street...

But we still love living here, and believe it or not i think the area is gettng better than it used to be! And at least the Royal no longer livens up Sunday afternoons with its karaoke <faint grin>....

[cevans]

Thanks for that Bellybabe, feel Soooo much better now!!

Seriously though, I have heard many a tale of what the street used to be like a couple of years ago, so am pretty relieved that it really isn't that bad, other than the occasional noisy idiot. My neighbours love living here, so maybe in time I will grow to love it too. Although I am thinking probably not..... Hopefully things will continue to improve, so that I won't have any difficulty in selling my flat in a couple of years!!

I think one of the problems is, is that Bath Street provides the perfect route from the high street to the beach where it seems like loads of people, particularly underagers go to drink. Surely the police must have an idea of what goes on along the promenade every night. Why are they not doing anything to curb this problem?

[Guest]

My sympathies. I hope you made a point of phoning the police on each occasion to complain. When can we expect the Bath Street/Mentone Avenue NW schemes? A written complaint from an official group representing several households carries much more weight. Don't accept anti-social behaviour. Organise yourselves, take the initiative and demand action.

[paulw]

On the same night cevans is referring to i also saw this guy shouting and swearing at what appeared to be every flat in the street. A little while earlier i had to chase off some youths who were going round the cars at the foot of bath street checking all the doors.

Big brother aside, what are peoples feelings on CCTV cameras. I know that active NW would be better as Bob suggests although it does require someone with enough time on their hands to organise.

Maybe i'll get my life in order and look into it.

[bellybabe]

I think nicky is still planning on getting something organised with regard to NW but has been super busy lately. Once the summer holidays start she might be able to give it a little more time and thought, and if people are prepared to be involved in that and not leave it all to her then i'm sure that will help.

[davidm]

I think they spread their filth along Straiton place as well. We were woken that morning about 2 am and 3 am . The were very attracted to the portaloo outside our house. They tried to over turn it and when they were asked to p**s off they were totally abusive. we phoned the police but surprise surprise nobody answered the call. Eventually the staggered off .

[Skeely]

Big brother aside, what are peoples feelings on CCTV cameras.

I've never been keen on them, but I find it difficult to put the Big Brother worries aside. A friend of mine was prosecuted in Brighton for thumping a car bonnet during a critical mass bicycle demonstration. CCTV evidence was shown during the case, but the police had 'lost' the footage from seconds earlier where the car had rammed his girlfriend, knocking her off her bike.

Unless the output of these cameras is available to everyone (for example on the internet), it will always be open to misuse, and will feel (to me anyway) like "Big Brother" watching rather than a community keeping a look-out for its members.

[Guest]

If you saw the difference CCTV has made in Rosefield Park I think you might change your mind. As I have posted previously, a few local residents had misgivings about it initially but our quality of life has improved immensely since the camera went up. Quite simply, the kids who were previously using the park for underage drinking, with all the associated noise and vandalism, DON'T want to be identified.

I can't comment on your friend's prosecution, and I don't doubt your account of events, but I'm sure you will agree that first and foremost CCTV is a great deterrent to crime of all types. Secondly, it is a very useful tool in assisting the police in detecting crime and in identifying perpetrators of crime. Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, it often gives them a chance to monitor situations and to take appropriate action to prevent a crime from taking place.

The camera in Rosefield took a little while to get used to, but it's just part of the street furniture now. What it does give us is a little reassurance - it's there for our protection and local residents no longer feel that the park is a 'no go' area after dark.

[Skeely]

I'm sure you will agree that first and foremost CCTV is a great deterrent to crime of all types.

I'm not convinced it'll do much for tax evasion. But seriously, it only acts as a deterrent where the cameras are pointing. I'm sure it has made life a bit easier for Rosefield residents. Maybe the kids who were previously using the park for underage drinking are the ones who now hang out in our back lane, and maybe the kids who were previously using the park just for somewhere to hang out (while going about the often difficult business of being a teenager) just don't like it anymore now that they're being spied on.

I am sort of playing devil's advocate here. I can see the attraction, but I don't like them.

[Guest]

Of course you are right. In many cases the camera simply displaces the problem and I don't pretend otherwise. But this theory only serves to underline the fact that we need more comprehensive CCTV coverage, doesn't it?

A couple of years ago I was given a tour of the CCTV central monitoring facility in Market Street and I was very impressed with what I saw. While I was there I witnessed a crime in progress in Princes St and the camera was able to follow the perpretrator and guide police officers to him and the stolen goods he had hidden nearby.

I don't feel that CCTV impinges on my freedom, my privacy or my civil liberties. I feel that it is there to help protect both me and my family. I suppose it's a bit like the arguments surrounding ID cards. If you have nothing to hide, what do you have to fear? The real crux of the matter, of course, is how and why and by whom these technologies are used and whether or not you trust these authorities to act in your best interests.

[Mimpty]

Why is there this problem with Bath Street? I moved to Portobello last year and looked at a few flats in that street and I am now very glad I didn't buy one there. I am a few streets away and I feel I'm in a different world when I read what you are writing.

What goes on in No12?? Are you able to say or would it be libellous? Are there half-way houses/ houses of multiple occupancy or some such? I will occasionally walk along Bath street going to or from Scotmid and never see/hear anything untoward. Is it just at night? Is the pub the problem?

Of course if you used CCTV in Bath street you would have to put them in all the streets as it would just move the problem on.

[Epykat]

Why is there this problem with Bath Street? .

I was brought up at 12 Bath Street, (albeit 40ish years ago when we first moved in) and it was a really nice stair throughout my childhood - although it deteriorated drastically in the few years before my Mum died. Bath Street however has always been a problem. My sister and I used to entertain ourselves on a Friday and Saturday night by looking out the bedroom window at the fights going on up the lane! So, it's not a new problem. I think it does stem from the fact that it is the main thoroughfare to the beach. At least now you have fewer pubs than before which might help and looking on the bright side you don't have a bus stop outside your door (they're always good for a bit of late night action).

[ifstar]

Can't help but feel if the police did their job a bit better then we wouldn't have as much problems. I live just down from the police station and about a year ago some guy was trying to kick down the door to someone in the flat upstairs - i phoned the police and told them - about 45 mins later they DROVE the 30 sec walk and the guy was obviously long gone by then. I can't believe there was nobody in the station that could have come down and sorted it. Another ocassion was when some tosser was drunk in the street shouting and swearing at god knows what time in the morning - phoned the police and they asked if he was still doing it I said to the woman if i can hear him still doing it then i don't know why you can't - again police investigated a little while later and the chap was long gone. Maybe the new powers that the police are getting to be able to disperse neds will help - but there seems to be an unwillingness to respond to calls promptly.

[Sandra]

Mimpty

I agree with you. I live a couple of streets away from Bath Street also and its calm and trouble free. I walk the dog up Bath Street during the day and it seems really nice street. Also have had a few drinks in the Old Pier - which seems a reasonable sort of pub. Though I must admit I don't tend to take the dog down the beach/Bath Street when its dark, too many teenagers hanging around - it can be intimidating.

[bellybabe]

Can't help but feel if the police did their job a bit better then we wouldn't have as much problems.

I couldn't agree more. I'm not one for laying into our public servants on the whole but the police in portobello seem to be getting less efficient, not more. We reported the theft of some toys from our garden - now ok, they weren't big or expensive, it was more that we just wanted it logged - and we were told an officer would come round. he still hasn't. One night he phoned and asked when he could come, and then said he'd be here between 6-11 the followng night. he never came. Last week he called, when we were out, put a card through asking us to contact him. We did. he was out. We left a message and were assured he would call us back before the end of his shift. A week ago.

Now we hear that there was a problem with an intruder (or more than one) on the roofs of our houses on friday night. Six officers were out - two in each of three houses along from us. We've all been having work done by the same roofer. They decided it was his fault for leaving scaffolding up (in a garden enclosed by a three metre high wall, suypposedly private), that they must have got up that way, and that was the end of the matter. They never even thought to mention to US that someone had been on the roof . After all, if they're on one, they can get on any. And today, the roofer's just informed me that he saw them up there again (and guess who it was...not that I'm prejudiced against 12 Bath Street...but surprise surprise) and it turns out the way they get up is over OUR roof. But the police didn't even think it was worth informing us.

Every house has a skylight or velux, and a roof hatch. I am alone in the house in the day (well, apart from a two year old!) and am sometimes in the evening too; we have neighbours away on holiday, neighbours here who live alone... It seems like common sense to me that you inform people of intruders and potential crime. But the police were too busy blaming the roofer, and not blaming the actual culprits, to even think about warning people about what's happening.

They don't inform neighbours of problems; they don't come out when called; they don't even bother to turn up when they say they will (or let you know they can't); and half the time they don't even answer the phone. Why do we even have a police station here?

They're helpful when we lose dogs, but when it comes to crime, forget it.

[cevans]

thats terrible Bellybabe. It is so infuriating that the police are so unwilling to help, what exactly do they do at portobello station all day? I can't imagine that they are run off their feet, so why does it take them so long, if at all, to respond to calls.

I think that cctv is the only option. How would the Bath Street/Mentone Avenue, residents go about campaigning for cameras to be installed? How long would it take etc.

It really is a pity that the minority are causing so many problems in this area. For the most part it is a nice street to live in, with nice neighbours and convenient for buses, beach etc. Friends love to come and visit so they can walk with their children along the beach. If the anti-social problems were dealt with, I am sure everyone would be happier with the street.

[Gemini]

I was informed by one of my neighbours that there was an attempted RAM RAID at the western end of Baileyfield Road last week. By all accounts the perpetrators attempted to drive a van through closed gates to access a section of the Scottish Power Site which is currently being leased by Appleyard Landrover to store new very expensive Vehicles.

I have been told that the Police were right on the Case... but of course they would be!

[Maria]

cevans wrote:
I think that cctv is the only option. How would the Bath Street/Mentone Avenue, residents go about campaigning for cameras to be installed? How long would it take etc.

Campaigning for funding for cameras to be installed could be done fairly quickly, but how would these new extra cameras be monitored? I know that many Joppa residents are in favour of CCTV as well, but with each new camera comes the demands of additional staffing.
You would need to campaign for permanent funding ( a much more difficult task) to employ someone to sit and monitor the additional screens.
I know that Rosefield Park and surrounding streets have benefited from the installation of CCTV but the tell tale signs of discarded empty alcopop bottles have started to appear again. Is it really the answer I wonder? I've been asked previously to identify a figure on CCTV footage and how anyone can use it to make a positive ID beats me - I certainly couldn't.

[angigael]

I was impressed by the speedy response I got from the police when someone was trying to break into my flat opposite the doctors' surgery in the High Street when I was in at the time. Took 2/3 minutes for two police to come round.

It was a couple of years back. I now live in Bath Street and heard the drunk the other night. And phoned the police.

[wangi]

We had trouble last night on the Esplanade.. The short version is...

We had two guys (20ish) and a group of kids (some of which were the guys kids!) outside the house drinking beer. They thought it would be a good idea to steal some of the plants and pots - I took them back. They done it again and I got a punch for my trouble - they were wanting a fight off me. And a glass thrown against the house, a plant pot against the garden wall and the remnants of the plant against the house... Shits. Oh, and I got covered in beer and lets just forget what they wanted to do to my partner... Scum.

I only finished the garden last week... http://www.pbase.com/wangi/garden_destruction

I was on hold with the police for 30+ minutes, they then took a further 50 or minutes to arrive. The police left the house after midnight.

[Mimpty]

Wangi,

That is horrific.

Perhaps it is about time we had a response from a police officer on this site. Are these matters being raised at Community Council meetings? Maybe forum members should catalogue their complaints themselves and raise them with the police as a job lot. They might take more notice then.
I've started to hear the odd drunk wandering up the street at night now but it's pretty rare, thank God.

On a practical note I believe you are supposed to weigh pots down with bricks/concrete or chain then to something to make them harder to steal although it doesn't stop them pulling the plant out the pot.

I hope the police do something this time.

[ecm]

Wangi, that's absolutely awful. I can imagine how angry you're feeling right now. Attacks on your property and possessions can be distressing enough but physical violence and threats on top of it, just terrible!
Can't put into words just what I think of the type of people who behave in this way and what I'd like to see done to them. They are scum.
Insult to injury as regards the dreadful responses of the police. Totally unacceptable.
I really am sorry for you and your partner.

[cevans]

Wangi, that is awful. Where do these scummy people dredge themselves up from? They are pathetic excuses for human beings.

Why on earth is there is no cctv on the prom anyway? I have to say I have always been nervous about walking along the prom at night, and it seems I am justified in my concerns. The actions of these people never cease to anger me, how dare they make you feel like that in your own home.

We had a big group of noisy people walking down Bath street on Saturday night, banging cars to make maximum noise as they walked. We called the police station right away, I am damned if I am going to just stand there and watch these imbeciles damage my car or anyone elses. I have no idea if the police turned up, I think the group headed off down the beach.

And breathe......rant over (for now)

[bellybabe]

Oh God, wangi... I can't tell you what i really think as the profanity filter won't let me. You and your partner must both be really shaken. Like cevans, I avoid the prom at night if possible, but I hate that i feel that way and you should definitely be able to live in peace wherever you live. What happened is just really...(trying to think of non-profane word) awful.

As for the police response...I don't want to get on a bandwagon and lately they've been helpful, but really - as my partner said, people don't want an incident number - they want to be safe in the first place and know that the police are actually doing something.

I hope the horrible feelings ease off and you both begin to feel more relaxed again soon. And I hope the police actually do something.

[wangi]

Thanks for thoughtful responses guys.

Been round to B&Q during lunch to buy supplies so I can get our fallen-off-the-wall gate back onto the wall and in use... It's not much, but it's a psychological barrier I guess - and something you can hear opening...

So, I'll be making lots of noise tonight with an angle-grinder and saw...

[Guest]

Wangi, just wanted to add a few words of sympathy of my own. As you know, I was admiring yoiur work in the garden just the other day and I can imagine how you must be feeling - anger, frustration and a feeling of helplessness.

On a positive note:

IMHO you absolutely did the right thing in attempting to defend your home and property, even if it did earn you a punch. Pity you didn't get some photos of your assailants!

If you don't already have a NW scheme on the Esplanade maybe it's time you started one. The Portobello NW Association meets on 10 August upstairs in the library at 6:30 and you are welcome to come along. It's an opportunity to take up issues directly with Bob Wardrop, the Station Inspector or to discuss CCTV with someone from City In View.

Best wishes

[Porty]

Wangi you are a brave guy. I hope that this is the end of the matter.

I guess if there were ongong problems of this nature there would be CCTV or am I wrong?

[Beach Babe]

Wangi

what happened was terrible. And the absolute frustration that you feel at the inability to stop these things happening or even to get a response from the Police is almost as bad

[Sandra]

Wangi

I would have been mad and shaken by it too, scum.

[Porty]

Wangi

I would have been mad and shaken by it too, scum.

Do you always go mad when shaken by it?

[Sandra]

ha ha always

[Garyw]

really sorry to hear about your experiences. Bellfield street seems to get a lot of these drunken yobs also but they come from the prom after their drinking sessions. PC Darling has been great. we have constantly to phone the police re yobs but dont let them get away with it Oh and CCTV would be great to hell with people feeling like they are being watched. Its worh it for peace. In Glasgow the police have a zero tolerance for young people who are drinking.

[stubetts]

During the summer holidays, there was a few nights where it started to rain, which caused a group (>10) of teenagers, 13-16 yr olds, to come up from the prom and gather just across from our house, under a vennel in Hillcoat Loan. The first couple of nights, we didnt bother too much (it was noisy and a little intimidating but they werent doing much wrong). By the third night, they came back again, and they were drinking, and were quite loud. Also, an elderly neighbours house was right next to where they were hanging out, and we could see her looking out looking more than a little scared. So, we phone the poilce, stating that a group of teenagers were drinking and we had concerns for an elderly neighbour who was looking frightened. They asked questions like "Are you sure they are under 18?". Even if they werent, im sure a few years ago (in my youth!) you would get moved on for hanging around outside peoples house in large gangs. Two months on, and we are still waiting on the police to arrive......

[Porty]

Stubetts. How on earth do you think the Police will manage to eat all the discount food they get from local takeaways if you expect them to walk round the corner from the station to investigate a situation like the one you describe above? Im guessing the incident was in the evening when all the food joints are open. You got to start getting real.