Portobello Golf Course - possible closure?

Post by **wangi** » 01 Sep 2010, 10:57

http://news.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Dras ... 6506061.jp

Drastic sports centre closures are revealed
SPORTS facilities including a golf course, swimming pool and leisure centres are on a closure hit list as part of a bid to find at least £800,000 of savings in the next year, it emerged today.

Bosses at Edinburgh Leisure, the firm which runs sports facilities on behalf of the city council, outlined the drastic measures in a report leaked to the Evening News.

The News understands that they have told board members that the closure of Portobello Golf Course, the Kirkliston and Crags leisure centres and Dalry Swim Centre would be needed in order to plug the gap in its finances. Another option is to close the loss-making climbing centre at Ratho, as well as one or two of the smaller venues.
...

Obviously not a list of confirmed closures, but rather a (leaked) document that outlines possible options for saving £800k... One of which would be to close Portobello Golf Course.

L/

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 01 Sep 2010, 14:50

Maybe all the PFANS arguments rubbishing the golfie ("pox on the planet", no junior section etc) have finally sprouted in the mind of the council, Inception-style?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Sep 2010, 14:58

As far as I am aware George Monbiot is not a PFANS supporter.

It would be sad to see PGC closing but hardly the end of the world. Look at the upsides: The area of Portobello Park that is being used to house the school could be replaced and things that "once gone are gone forever" would make a staggering comeback- whoosh the Park is back. PPAG would be dancing in the streets. ok they don't have enough for an eightsome reel but they could muster a Grand Old Duke of York with a minimalist March.

Suddeny around 50 acres of "inaccesible" open space would become accessible, our open space stats would go through the roof.

And there are other options; Rugby Pitches, Tennis Courts, Allotments, Skateboard Park and so on.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 01 Sep 2010, 15:04

please don't give PPAG the idea that the way forward is flute-toting sectarian marches - they might decide that the park/golfie is part of a historic route etc

allaboardtheskylark · Post by **allaboardtheskylark** » 01 Sep 2010, 20:02

Was there not a PPAGer, the one and only man with the plan, who suggested inverting the current plan so the school would (coincidentaly I'm sure) be further away from his house? Surely this news will cause him great joy that the Cooncil Skool Oiks could be further away from his splendid abode.

He will be doing cartwheels. I suspect he will be at the City Chambers first thing. Then we will have a campaign to save the Golf Course.

At least we won't have to worry about supplying crash helmets to the pupils at lunchtime.

allaboardtheskylark · Post by **allaboardtheskylark** » 01 Sep 2010, 20:37

Good old SAVE PORTY PARK in the Evening News again

"For years The council have been looking for somewhere to put portobello power league. now they have the oppertunity they desire. not only will we have a school and supermarket as neighbours but a noisy leisure facility. house prices will plummet."

Franck · Post by **Franck** » 02 Sep 2010, 15:39

The loss of the golfie would be terrible imo and a step too far.

There seems to be contributors to this site that are hell bent on stiffing those who opposed the school on the park, and if replacing the golf course with skate parks/allotments/rugby pitches does that, so be it.

Like many people, I started playing golf there when I was a kid and continue to play the game, mostly down to having an easily accessable and well priced facility close to my house, I still see loads of youngsters walking up and down Brighton Place with their sticks.In an age where Scotland is fatty central, removing an alternative source of excercise is just dumb.Not everyone wants to play football or Rugby.

If the council cannot afford to run the golf course, it should be handed over to locally run non-profit organisation to take care of, much like the bumpy courts.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 02 Sep 2010, 15:58

Franck wrote:
If the council cannot afford to run the golf course, it should be handed over to locally run non-profit organisation to take care of, much like the bumpy courts.

I agree, good idea and much more preferable to being sold off to a commercial third party (s). Although I do think a disposal would be complex with the land being held in the common good account.

If the Golf Course closes, I hope it is because of cost and low usage, which means a community style organisation would also struggle. I'm suggesting mutiple leisure and sport use of the site that would perhaps include a shorter more compact, say 6-hole, golf course. Maybe some local clubs and organisations pull resources and work together, like a big society.

My point about PPAG may have been flippant but if theire sole motivation is preserving a park near this location, why wouldn't they be delighted at the opportunity of getting a new one? In my opinion PPAG don't give a hoot about the Golf Course other than as a potential location to move the school buildings a bit further away from Duddingston Park area

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 02 Sep 2010, 17:51

Porty wrote: In my opinion PPAG don't give a hoot about the Golf Course other than as a potential location to move the school buildings a bit further away from Duddingston Park area

Yes. It has been used as a political golf ball by campaign groups a number of times.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 02 Sep 2010, 17:58

It has but they started it!!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 02 Sep 2010, 17:59

Porty wrote:It has but they started it!!

I'll see you at the 19th hole sometime me old china

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 02 Sep 2010, 18:45

Franck wrote:There seems to be contributors to this site that are hell bent on stiffing those who opposed the school on the park, and if replacing the golf course with skate parks/allotments/rugby pitches does that, so be it.

Personally I'm not convinced the golf-course is the best use of such a large open space. For one thing I only see the occassional youngster walking up Brighton Place with their sticks. The vast majority of people using the golf-course drive there, the number who walk to it are miniscule. So to that extent the need it serves could be replicated somewhere else without too much inconvenience.

That being said, I don't see any pressing need for the space to become a proper park. I think that Portobello is pretty well served by open spaces and the principal amenity is the beach. If I was looking for improved parks I start off with the Niddrie Burn corridor.

So I'm happy with the golf-cousre staying. The only thing I'd consider is changing it to a 6 hole golf-course to either increase the walking amenity of the remaining park or provide additional sports provision alongside the new high school.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 02 Sep 2010, 20:01

I would agree that we are blessed with an abundance of open space but what's wrong with being greedy? If the golf course does close, then there could be a once in a lifetime opportunity to create a new park for the whole community. We could have a fantastic new school that looks out on to wildflower meadows, a sculpture garden, a wildlife pond, an organic allotment, picnic tables. Maybe a little bit of lebensraum for the new school? Sounds ambitious? Remember, we have half a million pounds in the open space compensation fund.

Doesn't this sound like an idea that even PPAG could get behind?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 02 Sep 2010, 20:49

Franck wrote:I still see loads of youngsters walking up and down Brighton Place with their sticks.

seanie wrote:I only see the occassional youngster walking up Brighton Place with their sticks.

Are you guys talking about the same street?

gilo · Post by **gilo** » 02 Sep 2010, 20:53

Bob Jefferson wrote: Remember, we have half a million pounds in the open space compensation fund.

£150,000 and falling.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 02 Sep 2010, 20:57

Presumably.

I catch sight of someone walking past my house with golf clubs so infrequently that I make a mental note of it;

"Look. Someone walking to/from the golfcourse. How unusual."

It's like how you wouldn't necessarily notice a sparrow in your front garden.

But a penguin would grab your attention.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 03 Sep 2010, 11:41

Bob Jefferson wrote: We could have a fantastic new school that looks out on to wildflower meadows, a sculpture garden, a wildlife pond, an organic allotment, picnic tables. Maybe a little bit of lebensraum for the new school?

Couple of unicorns perhaps?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 03 Sep 2010, 11:50

Nah I don't think we want to encourage horny animals in our parks

Franck · Post by **Franck** » 03 Sep 2010, 12:40

seanie wrote:Presumably.

I catch sight of someone walking past my house with golf clubs so infrequently that I make a mental note of it;

"Look. Someone walking to/from the golfcourse. How unusual."

It's like how you wouldn't necessarily notice a sparrow in your front garden.

But a penguin would grab your attention.

We've had this conversation before.I'm not suggesting that droves of golfers walk up Brighton Place (one of many roads leading to the golfie) but there is enough ( especially during the summer holidays) to suggest it's a popular amenity for locals and bus users, as well as Edinburgh residents at large who arrive by car.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » 03 Sep 2010, 12:49

Bob Jefferson wrote:I would agree that we are blessed with an abundance of open space but what's wrong with being greedy? If the golf course does close, then there could be a once in a lifetime opportunity to create a new park for the whole community. We could have a fantastic new school that looks out on to wildflower meadows, a sculpture garden, a wildlife pond, an organic allotment, picnic tables. Maybe a little bit of lebensraum for the new school? Sounds ambitious? Remember, we have half a million pounds in the open space compensation fund.

Doesn't this sound like an idea that even PPAG could get behind?

Whats wrong with being greedy?To use an ott comparison,I'm sure Hitler said the same thing to the Polish.

People are getting a new school, and according to Seanie, it's capacity is sufficient for the needs of the community.The golf course as it stands is for the whole community.From the fanciest courses like Muirfield down to simple Portobello, the right to roam on courses is there for all, all it needs is common sense from non-golfers and more patience from golfers themselves.

As for wildlife ponds, is there not one in the figgie?Sculpture gardens and wildflower meadows?you must be having a laugh.

Maybe some of that fabled £500K could be used to fund a community owned running of the golf course, maybe even as a compromise remove holes 7/8/9 for wildflower meadows and sculpture gardens and yurts, or additional playing fields for the nice new school?

Post by **wangi** » 03 Sep 2010, 12:58

Franck wrote:From the fanciest courses like Muirfield down to simple Portobello, the right to roam on courses is there for all, all it needs is common sense from non-golfers and more patience from golfers themselves.

From the Outdoor Access Code website:

Golf courses

You can only exercise access rights to cross over a golf course and in doing so, you must keep off golf greens at all times and not interfere with any golf games or damage the playing surface. Golf courses are intensively used and managed, and there can be hazards such as where golfers are playing 'blind' shots. In exercsing access rights:

* allow players to play their shot before crossing a fairway;
* be still when close to a player about to play;
* follow paths where they exist; and
* keep your dog on a short lead.

To avoid damaging the playing surface, cyclists and horse-riders need to keep to paths at all times and not on any other part of a golf course. When fertilisers or pesticides have been used, the duration of any hazard depends on the material used but should not normally extend more than a few days. Golf course managers can ask you to avoid using particular routes at these times. Following such advice can greatly help to minmise risks to safety.

(spelling mistakes are theirs)
Hardly roaming around the course!

rmolehusband · Post by **rmolehusband** » 03 Sep 2010, 12:58

Franck wrote:To use an ott comparison,I'm sure Hitler said the same thing to the Polish

Godwin's Law has now been invoked, please close the thread.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » 03 Sep 2010, 13:06

wangi wrote:
Franck wrote:From the fanciest courses like Muirfield down to simple Portobello, the right to roam on courses is there for all, all it needs is common sense from non-golfers and more patience from golfers themselves.
From the Outdoor Access Code website:
Golf courses

You can only exercise access rights to cross over a golf course and in doing so, you must keep off golf greens at all times and not interfere with any golf games or damage the playing surface. Golf courses are intensively used and managed, and there can be hazards such as where golfers are playing 'blind' shots. In exercsing access rights:

* allow players to play their shot before crossing a fairway;
* be still when close to a player about to play;
* follow paths where they exist; and
* keep your dog on a short lead.

To avoid damaging the playing surface, cyclists and horse-riders need to keep to paths at all times and not on any other part of a golf course. When fertilisers or pesticides have been used, the duration of any hazard depends on the material used but should not normally extend more than a few days. Golf course managers can ask you to avoid using particular routes at these times. Following such advice can greatly help to minmise risks to safety.
(spelling mistakes are theirs)
Hardly roaming around the course!

Most of those points are there to protect the roamers, being hit by a golf ball is not fun, I can tell thee.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » 03 Sep 2010, 13:07

rmolehusband wrote:
Franck wrote:To use an ott comparison,I'm sure Hitler said the same thing to the Polish
Godwin's Law has now been invoked, please close the thread.

Just had to google that, classic!

I did cringe a wee bit when typing it

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 03 Sep 2010, 16:16

Though, to be fair, my 'lebensraum' remark rather invited it.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 03 Sep 2010, 16:24

Epykat wrote:
Bob Jefferson wrote: We could have a fantastic new school that looks out on to wildflower meadows, a sculpture garden, a wildlife pond, an organic allotment, picnic tables. Maybe a little bit of lebensraum for the new school?
Couple of unicorns perhaps?

Perhaps. Thanks to Hawkings and Dawkin we now know that God doesn't exist, but I tend to think there is a stronger case for unicorns.

Unicorns spotted on Portobello Golf Course.