New Portobello High School - plan and design

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Dec 2008, 11:09

What a fantastic, once in a lifetime opportunity this is. When was the last time anyone invested over £40 million on a community facility in Portobello?

What is on your wishlist? What would make it a great school? What community facilities would you like to see? Get involved - this is our school!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Dec 2008, 12:33

Seanie, I'm expecting you to lead on this. Are there any other recently-built establishments we should be looking at for inspiration? The new Queen Margaret University campus? St Thomas of Aquin's? The new Holyrood High even?

What can we expect as 'given'? What extras can we hope to get? What do you get for £41.5 million nowadays?

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 19 Dec 2008, 12:43

You can link to design guidance and case studies (including St Thomas's )from here;

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Educa ... /Buildings

And quoting from part of the PFANS submission yesterday;

We are rightly proud of the education system in Scotland. Our standard of education is excellent. But at the same time, it has to be recognised, that the delivery of our education has too often been undermined by the condition of our school estate.

Here we have an opportunity to redress that. To create a new high school that can meet the needs of generations of children long into the future. A school that could serve as an example; not just across our city, but across Scotland and beyond. We have a real opportunity here to create something special.

Earlier this year there was a visioning project, encouraging pupils from the high school and the feeder primaries to imagine what kind of high school they would like. Over 300 children participated and around 500 members of the public attended an exhibition of the work. It tapped into a huge well of creativity and enthusiasm about the possibilities of a new school.

That initiative should be developed and expanded. The single most important factor in the quality of a building is the quality of design, not the size of the budget. And the quality of a building is in large measure down to how well it meets the needs and aspirations of the people who live with it and use it.

To that end we would urge you to continue the process of consultation, with the high school, the staff and pupils, the feeder primaries, the local public and community groups, the whole of East Edinburgh. That way we can develop a design that truly maximises the benefits of a new school, meeting the needs of as many as possible, and placing it right at the heart of our community.

Budget is not the be all and end all. Really good buildings come through good design. The fact that this isn't a PPP scheme gives me greater confidence that the design process will be got right.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Dec 2008, 14:46

Well, first and foremost of course it is a school so it has to meet all the requirements to ensure that it provides a safe, comfortable and inspiring environment in which to learn and teach. I would expect pupils and teaching staff to have major input. I would expect individual departments to stake their claim, in terms of floor space and facilities and I seem to recall that some work of this type has already been undertaken. No-one knows better what is required than the people who actually use the building.

I think we all share the aspiration that the new school should be something really special. As the PFANS submission puts it:

A school that could serve as an example; not just across our city, but across Scotland and beyond.

Innovative and exciting design. Eco-friendly for sure. And, learning from the mistakes of the past, a building that is well-constructed, that will ensure low maintenance costs and that is flexible enough in design to be future-proof.

A school that serves the community, open 7 days a week until late at night.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 19 Dec 2008, 15:57

Bob Jefferson wrote: A school that serves the community, open 7 days a week until late at night.

Don't want to burst your bubble Bob , but Epykat was quite right to point out the opening hours of any new building will be dependent on janitorial staff being paid to be on the premises. Unless we suddenly go through a boom economy in five years time, your hope for long opening hours could be a pipe dream.

I reckon a must in any design is plenty of social space. By that, I mean areas where pupils can congregate safely, eat their lunch in comfort and shelter if weather is poor, instead of being forced onto the High Street every lunchtime.

Wide corridors that could ease congestion during period changeovers and also house pupil lockers would be both pleasant and practical.

I'd also suggest windows that open to allow in plenty of fresh air. None of that totally-hermetically-sealed-shut business thanks!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Dec 2008, 16:13

Marya wrote:
Bob Jefferson wrote: A school that serves the community, open 7 days a week until late at night.
Don't want to burst your bubble Bob , but Epykat was quite right to point out the opening hours of any new building will be dependent on janitorial staff being paid to be on the premises. Unless we suddenly go through a boom economy in five years time, your hope for long opening hours could be a pipe dream.

I think that there will be great demand for the facilities that the school will be able to offer. With no clear way forward for a new community centre, it is easy to see that the new school could become a focal point for the whole community. I don't know whether the revenue from school lets does much more than cover the overheads but I think it's up to us to ensure that we do get the most out of a new facility.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Dec 2008, 16:33

Here is a recent example of comparable roll size:

St Andrew's, Coatbridge

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Dec 2008, 18:55

And an example of another local school offering a whole range of community activities:

Leith Academy - a school for the whole community

Eck · Post by **Eck** » 04 Jan 2009, 00:12

Leith Academy takes in a separate income from 3 astroturf football pitches (or 1 full size hockey pitch), two grass football pitches, a rugby pitch and a cricket pitch. The cash from all these subsidies the staffing of these facilities. I doubt it very much that there will be sufficient room for such facilities at 'the new Porty High School' as well as a substantial learning centre.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 04 Jan 2009, 18:27

There will be more room than there is at present.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 04 Jan 2009, 21:43

What is the difference in cost between a bog standard astroturf and a G4 pitch- one that can host full contact rugby matches? And I can't fathom why St Andrews in coatbridge cost £150m ow much of that was attributable to the school itself.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 04 Jan 2009, 22:26

I was told recently that to re-lay the Powerleague pitches with the latest technology in astroturf cost £20k per pitch. But hey, I'm worth it.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Mar 2009, 11:17

I attended the PHS parent council last night and there was encouraging updates on progress towards the new school. I should perhaps have not been so surprised/pleased cos' Seanie had already informed us that once things got moving it would quickly gain momentum. I did not take notes so I've forgotten some of the names. Seanie may be able to fill in the blanks.

The head teacher has been attending project workshops in the last 2 or 3 weeks and reported the following (as far as I recall).

Thomas and Adamson- have been appointed as Engineers or Project Managers

The Architects will be announced very shortly.

DGEW (or something similar) have been appoinnted to consult with the SMT, Staff and at a later date pupils

Estimated delivery date for the school is August 2013 t January 2014.

Experts have been approached and will be giving talks and workshops. One of them is called Barry Best and the other a Prof/Dr Stephen H??? I think they said he was involved in Ultra Lab.

The project is being run under a process/software package called Prince2. I don't know anything about that but I believe it received a mixed reception around the room. PM stated that it was not precedent to have parent council or community represented as a user group on the design team and this was met with disdain around the room. However, representation was made and our councillors will try to secure input. Jackie Brock has been tasked with putting together a small sub-commitee that will support the PC rep, if we manage to secure one.

It is all quite exciting, there was no chat about common good or planning permission, although the latter cannot be assumed.

The other news was the budget for "breathing" money for the School has been cut from £5.75M to £3.5M- everyone agreed that expenditure on repairs should be minimised, there was no objections. We are inheriting the boilers from Broughton.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 17 Mar 2009, 13:38

That all sounds very promising indeed.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 17 Mar 2009, 13:52

Porty wrote: ...The project is being run under a process/software package called Prince2. I don't know anything about that but I believe it received a mixed reception around the room...

well used nowadays.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 17 Mar 2009, 13:56

Developing a brief and a design is a time consuming process as it is, because it's an iterative process; there's a fair bit of repetition and reappraisal as you work towards your solution. It also involves compromise as economics/practicalities constrain what's achievable.

Whilst views of the community might be useful in informing aspects of the design, formal involvement beyond that is difficult. It's not easy to consult with the community in a significant way given the nature of the process.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Mar 2009, 14:32

There's a few other gems from the meeting:

The "visioning" work coordinated by Dr Andrew Fraser was lauded and will provide a significant contribution to the process.

It will def be a 1400 pupil school.

Portobello has the City's highest retention rate of children from feeder schools- 92% of whom go on to Porty

PHS send more people on to Higher or Further education than any other school in the City.

And finally- After many years the school is to revive the tradition of the school show, it will be at Christmas time and the first production will be Oliver. (thinking is that this show can involve pupils from all years). Staff were asked if they would support the idea and a grand total of 30 said they would!! Fantastic.

The christmas music show will also continue.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 17 Mar 2009, 14:44

Porty wrote:
The "visioning" work coordinated by Dr Andrew Fraser was lauded and will provide a significant contribution to the process.

Can we see that anywhere Porty?

PHS send more people on to Higher or Further education than any other school in the City.

That's good news. Mind you, it is the city's largest school. When you look at leaver destinations in terms of percentage of roll some other Edinburgh schools don't fare too badly either

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Mar 2009, 15:30

Marya wrote:
Porty wrote:
The "visioning" work coordinated by Dr Andrew Fraser was lauded and will provide a significant contribution to the process.
Can we see that anywhere Porty?

I don't have a copy sure someone will tho'.

Get the point about the percentage of higher and further education. The retention rate will also likely be affected by proximity to private schools and other demographoc factors.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 17 Mar 2009, 21:43

Porty wrote:
Marya wrote:
Porty wrote:
The "visioning" work coordinated by Dr Andrew Fraser was lauded and will provide a significant contribution to the process.
Can we see that anywhere Porty?
I don't have a copy sure someone will tho'.

Bob?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Mar 2009, 22:28

It may be in the archive? It was compiled some time ago.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 17 Mar 2009, 22:51

I've had a quick look and I can't find anything. I know they produced that short film with QMU, which is still available to view on Portobelly Telly, but beyond that I'm not sure. Emma Wood is the person to ask.

bathst2 · Post by **bathst2** » 24 Mar 2009, 16:18

Marya wrote:
Bob Jefferson wrote: A school that serves the community, open 7 days a week until late at night.

Not just availability of Janitors but also some kind of Community use staff...not too optimistic about gaining that given the low level of Youth/Com Ed staff porty gets just now...what possibility is there of forming a "friends of PHS" or something which would tun extra-curricular/community use? Anyone know?

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 24 Mar 2009, 16:38

bathst2 wrote:
Marya wrote:
Bob Jefferson wrote: A school that serves the community, open 7 days a week until late at night.
Not just availability of Janitors but also some kind of Community use staff...not too optimistic about gaining that given the low level of Youth/Com Ed staff porty gets just now...what possibility is there of forming a "friends of PHS" or something which would tun extra-curricular/community use? Anyone know?

that sounds like a great idea - and in line with the ethos of "life-long learning". PHS would be ideally placed to meet this.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 24 Mar 2009, 16:56

bathst2 wrote:[what possibility is there of forming a "friends of PHS" or something which would tun extra-curricular/community use? Anyone know?

You mean like a PTA?

Trying to arrange a year's worth or even a month's worth of classes based on fund raising initiatives isn't really a goer, I reckon. With the best will in the world, there's a limit to how many times you can ask the local community to dip in their pocket to fund activities, when we already pay council tax. Additionally, no class instructor is going to be keen to have their salary rely on the income of a bring and buy sale.

There already is a Community Education Service and the best policy IMO would be to fight for it to be funded adequately.

Sorry if this sounds negative - I don't mean to be!

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 01 Apr 2009, 16:38

JM Architects have been appointed. They're a decent practice as far as I'm aware.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Apr 2009, 18:21

Good news and I believe there is a real buzz in the school with staff involved in lots of consultation meetings. - cue epykat with a bucket of iced water.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 01 Apr 2009, 21:32

seanie wrote:JM Architects have been appointed. They're a decent practice as far as I'm aware.

Have a look at the Education section of their website - they have a lot of school building projects under their belt.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 01 Apr 2009, 22:25

Porty wrote:Good news and I believe there is a real buzz in the school with staff involved in lots of consultation meetings. - cue epykat with a bucket of iced water.

Suffice to say the buzz was probably thinly disguised snoring!

mehitabel · Post by **mehitabel** » 02 Apr 2009, 00:01

good to see plans moving ahead at last

A 'community school' in the full sense of the word for Portobello would be fantastic.
When I came to Edinburgh a decade ago from rural Scotland I was amazed to find so many schools closed off from the wider community and education facilities , libraries and community/leisure centres so 'segregated'.

If you want to look at other models of integrated education/community facilities in Scotland try Aboyne Academy which shares a single campus with Deeside Community Centre and the local Primary and Nursery
All ages share facilities - Swimming Pool, Community Theatre/Cinema for 200 people, Community Library, Sports Hall and Gym and canteen/coffee bar where kids of all ages can eat lunch in same place as their grandparents pensioners group ...and mothers and toddlers....

Also back then I was able to study Art in the same open plan classroom as secondary pupils during the day- and taught nightclasses to adults in the same classrooms in the evening once the kids had gone home.

It can work....

What will be most important as an early step for the new Porty High will be to make the case with City of Edinburgh Council to establish full Community School status for Portobello which it does not enjoy at present unlike secondaries like Drummond and Leith which have full community shared facilities evening /daytime and at weekends.

All new 21st century facilities really need to be designed to maximise use of shared resources like this . Surely this is preferable to current permanent financial crisis in Edinburgh which means that the Council can only afford to open and staff a minority of schools for wider community use and adult classes( which have potential to be more self financing if properly 'community led' ) constantly face the axe.
If Porty needs a new community library, and more shared community space for adult classes, clubs, sports etc surely it makes sense and is more economic to build and run( staffing/heating/security etc) for the school to be designed on one campus as a 7 day facility with areas open to the whole community .

There are likely to be lots of potential objections to adults and children sharing the same buildings and facilities nowadays due to rigorous Child( and Vulnerable Adult) Protection legislation and concerns. It is thus vital that an agreement /commitment to the principle of shared facilities for all ages takes place before the spatial planning process starts, so that Child Protection arrangements can be catered for adequately in the design. Only then will it be possible to design and develop a purpose built lifelong learning facility accessible and safe for all ages.
This to my mind is the only truly sustainable way to deliver education effectively in the 21st century and to acheive a cohesive and inclusive community with all generations/abilities mixing together.....

Thats my soapbox bit over.
As my youngest leaves school next year - can't really contribute to school planning discussion from a parent perspective any longer but will continue to push to keep the lifelong learning issue live - - we need to keep lobbying for joined up planning , to make sure we get the resources to build a sustainable 'community learning centre' for Portobello in an era of falling school rolls, and rising unemployment, and a growing and longer lived and more active older population.
Its going to cost a lot so we need something which will last a lifetime not just a couple of generations like the last school building .....

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 02 Apr 2009, 10:12

Great post mehitabel! I'm with you all the way.

Here is the official press release re the appointment of the Design Team:

EDINBURGH ARCHITECTS HEAD NEW PORTOBELLO HIGH DESIGN TEAM

One of Scotland’s leading architect practices has been chosen to head up the design team for the new £40m Portobello High School.

Edinburgh-based jmarchitects, whose headquarters are in Queen Street, are highly experienced in designing new schools in the United Kingdom.

The award-winning architects have been responsible for delivering over 70 schools in the last nine years at a cost of £500m, with some 60,000 pupils occupying their schools.

There is a strong local element to the design team which also includes Edinburgh-based companies like project managers Thomas and Adamson, engineering firm Rybka, consultant engineers Faber Maunsell, cost advisers Gardiner and Theobold. The final member of the design team is structural engineers Parsons Brinckerhoff who are based in Newcastle.

Councillor Marilyne MacLaren, Convener of Education, Children and Families, said: “I am thrilled that we have appointed such a high calibre design team for Portobello High School.

“jmarchitects have a great track record in school design and it’s great news that the core of our design team are Edinburgh-based. Their involvement will support our local economy at a difficult time for businesses.

“Like everyone else I am looking forward to seeing the designs for what I’m sure will be an iconic new building for the city.”

Ron McFarlane, Director with jmarchitects, said: “We are delighted to be involved with this very important landmark project and look forward to continuing our close working relationship with City of Edinburgh Council and delivering a high quality educational facility for future generations.”

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 02 Apr 2009, 10:19

Mehitabel, what a wonderfully positive and optimistic post. Such a breath of fresh air

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 02 Apr 2009, 12:11

Pupils and staff to have say on features for new building

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 02 Apr 2009, 15:00

That article is very encouraging. Building commencing next year!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 02 Apr 2009, 22:29

Portobello High School Newsletter no.2

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

New Portobello High School - plan and design

New Portobello High School - plan and design

re porty school plans