Council Election 2007

[Bob Jefferson]

On 3 May elections will be held for the Scottish Parliament and for Local Councils. In this thread we will be concentrating on the Council election for the new Portobello-Craigmillar ward. The new STV (single transferable vote) system, a form of proportional representation, replaces the 'first past the post' system we are used to.

More information available at www.votescotland.com

The following candidates have so far declared their intention to contest the 3 available seats:

Lawrence Marshall - Labour
Maureen Child - Labour
Stephen Hawkins - Lib Dem
Alison Miller - Conservative
Mike Bridgman - SNP
Caroline Hosking - Solidarity
Margaret Munro - Independent
Peter McColl - Green

Online hustings coming soon.....

[Dadaist]

Have they dropped the "New" from Labour?

I'd like to know Lawrence and Maureen's thoughts on Iraq and Afghanistan - I'm well aware that this is a local election, but these individuals have chosen to obey orders from a leader who has blood on his hands.

As such there's no way I could ever vote for a Labour candidate whilst Blair is their leader. As much as I am politically opposed to nationalists, conservatives and other assorted fruits and nuts, I view voting for a mass murdering war criminal as near-complicity in the rape of the 2 countries I mentioned.

[aileenandfearghal]

Have they dropped the "New" from Labour?

I'd like to know Lawrence and Maureen's thoughts on Iraq and Afghanistan - I'm well aware that this is a local election, but these individuals have chosen to obey orders from a leader who has blood on his hands.

As such there's no way I could ever vote for a Labour candidate whilst Blair is their leader. As much as I am politically opposed to nationalists, conservatives and other assorted fruits and nuts, I view voting for a mass murdering war criminal as near-complicity in the rape of the 2 countries I mentioned.

Wow. Quite a stongly worded post.

A couple of questions:
- If someone stands as a Labour local councillor, have they really chosen to obey orders from a leader in London? Isn't it more they are a member of a political party which represents the majority of their views? Do you support labour members who opposed the war but are still members of the labour party?
- Will you be able to support a Labour candidate once Brown is the leader? Didn't he fully support the invasion of Iraq? Even if it's not him, it's bound to be someone who voted for the war. Why will you be able to vote for a Labour candidate then?

I'm not having a go, and I certainly do not support the war. I'm just surprised that people tar entire political parties with one brush. I don't see them as such a rigid and defined organisation. There's a strong chance that these Labour candidates are against the war and maybe they've decided to get involved and bring about a Labour party which is more in keeping with their views.

Is it sensible to refuse to vote for them if this is the case?

[Dadaist]

Have they dropped the "New" from Labour?

I'd like to know Lawrence and Maureen's thoughts on Iraq and Afghanistan - I'm well aware that this is a local election, but these individuals have chosen to obey orders from a leader who has blood on his hands.

As such there's no way I could ever vote for a Labour candidate whilst Blair is their leader. As much as I am politically opposed to nationalists, conservatives and other assorted fruits and nuts, I view voting for a mass murdering war criminal as near-complicity in the rape of the 2 countries I mentioned.

Wow. Quite a stongly worded post.

A couple of questions:
- If someone stands as a Labour local councillor, have they really chosen to obey orders from a leader in London?

As far as I knew, Lawrence and Maureen were signed on with the UK Labour Party. Their current leader is Tony Blair and their organization has a structure like any other.

Isn't it more they are a member of a political party which represents the majority of their views?

Sure. Just that small niggle of dropping TNT on other people's kids.

Do you support labour members who opposed the war but are still members of the labour party?

No. I'm happy to hear their arguments though - the likes of Benn and Skinner especially. I wouldn't go as far as saying "support" though.

- Will you be able to support a Labour candidate once Brown is the leader?

I doubt it. Those damn spots of blood are difficult to wash off.

Didn't he fully support the invasion of Iraq?

I guess he might argue he had to say those things. Too many corpses now though.

Even if it's not him, it's bound to be someone who voted for the war. Why will you be able to vote for a Labour candidate then?

I wouldn't, if it was someone who voted for the war. Sorry if I gave any sort of impression otherwise.

I'm not having a go, and I certainly do not support the war. I'm just surprised that people tar entire political parties with one brush. I don't see them as such a rigid and defined organisation. There's a strong chance that these Labour candidates are against the war and maybe they've decided to get involved and bring about a Labour party which is more in keeping with their views.

Is it sensible to refuse to vote for them if this is the case?

Bertrand Russell quit the Labour Party because of their stance on the Vietnam war. My opinion is that he was right to do so.

[Maria]

Online hustings coming soon.....

The format of these hustings is still to be decided, though I do know it won't be a 'live' session as this would be unworkable.

[Porty]

Dada is interested to learn Maureen and Lawrence's views on the War, don't have any problem with that.

For my part, I'm happy that they both support the School's decision. We know Stephen Hawkins is against it and for decant onto Figgate Park. Margaret Munro hasn't said a word on whether she supports new schools or or not.

[aileenandfearghal]

Thanks for the reply Dadaist. It's certainly clarified your stance, especially regarding the Labour leadership as opposed to just Tony Blair.

Sure. Just that small niggle of dropping TNT on other people's kids.

I doubt it. Those damn spots of blood are difficult to wash off.

Too many corpses now though.

I'm not a big fan of the tone of these comments though. I'm not sure why it is necessary to reply like this. You're writing quite flippantly about events which you are clearly upset about in response to my quite neutral questions.

Anyway, I don't want to start some sort of huge discussion about this. You've answered my questions, thanks.

Edit: Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I thought I was with my questions. I don't have a problem either Porty, I am just interested and like to discuss interesting topics to help form my own opinions.

[Dadaist]

aileenandfearghal

As much as I don't want to cause upset and offence, or break forum rules, I will never moderate my tone on this particular topic.

[Porty]

aileenandfearghal

As much as I don't want to cause upset and offence, or break forum rules, I will never moderate my tone on this particular topic.

Thats funny, I thought you already had, compared to the old days.

[Dadaist]

Meh. The war still gets my hackles up.

[Bob Jefferson]

Wow, look what I started! Don't burn yourselves out people, there's a long way to go until 3 May. In the meantime, you may wish to give some thought as to what are going to be the crucial issues that will inform your voting decisions, and what questions you would like to pose to the candidates.

I have been asked to facilitate this by the Community Council, who will be helping to organise traditional hustings in both Portobello and Craigmillar - dates, times, venues to be announced.

[ali]

Have they dropped the "New" from Labour?

I'd like to know Lawrence and Maureen's thoughts on Iraq and Afghanistan - I'm well aware that this is a local election, but these individuals have chosen to obey orders from a leader who has blood on his hands.

As such there's no way I could ever vote for a Labour candidate whilst Blair is their leader. As much as I am politically opposed to nationalists, conservatives and other assorted fruits and nuts, I view voting for a mass murdering war criminal as near-complicity in the rape of the 2 countries I mentioned.

Wow. Quite a stongly worded post.

Oh dear. Believe me - you will have to toughen up or you're not going to last the distance where Dadaist and politics is concerned.

A couple of questions:
- If someone stands as a Labour local councillor, have they really chosen to obey orders from a leader in London? Isn't it more they are a member of a political party which represents the majority of their views? Do you support labour members who opposed the war but are still members of the labour party?

Personally, I think that anyone who did not support the war and remained a member of the Labour Party has the morals of a snake. The cabinet could have stopped it, the parliamentary party could have stopped it, the councillors nationwide could've stopped it and the membership could 've stopped it - they chose not to. They were willing to let Blair go to war rather than endanger their grip on power.

Hey, that's politics. They have yet to reap what they have sown.

- Will you be able to support a Labour candidate once Brown is the leader? Didn't he fully support the invasion of Iraq? Even if it's not him, it's bound to be someone who voted for the war. Why will you be able to vote for a Labour candidate then?

Brown is as guilty as Blair in my book. He bought the bombs and bullets for Tony.

[tom nimmo]

Dadaist, I'm not sure why you need to know the views on the war from Maureen and Lawrence as, no matter what they say, you will not vote for Labour anyway. I have always found it a bit frustrating living in such a solid Labour constituency under first-past-the-post. Gavin Strang has been the Labour MP for ever and must have the cushiest job in politics. I believe there are are people who still vote Labour for no other reason than they always have done. Some people would probably vote for Gavin Strang's dog because it's a Labour dog. Bring on proportional representation and get rid of the career politicians who just drift along in safe seats. The hustings for the local elections should be very interesting indeed given the number of contentious local issues down Portobello way these days. I hope the candidates are well prepared and thick skinned enough to take up the challenge.

[Porty]

Dadaist, I'm not sure why you need to know the views on the war from Maureen and Lawrence as, no matter what they say, you will not vote for Labour anyway.

Its obvioulsy beyond you that Dadaist may be raising the issue to potentially place Lawrence and Maureen in an invidious position so that others don't vote for them either.

[tom nimmo]

Its obvioulsy beyond you that Dadaist may be raising the issue to potentially place Lawrence and Maureen in an invidious position so that others don't vote for them either.

Porty, are you saying that people run the risk of voting for the Portobello Two in error and only Dadaist asking them their stance on the war can prevent that? In local elections I usually vote for the person rather than the party. If I feel that this election malarkey is indeed beyond me I shall rush to you for advice and guidance. PS I hope the stuff you told me about on Monday night works out ok for you.

[Porty]

Porty, are you saying that people run the risk of voting for the Portobello Two in error and only Dadaist asking them their stance on the war can prevent that?

Nah, he is just a cheeky, tricky devil that doesn't believe in the value of war or torture. He is just making mischeif, which I'm led to believe is common on a non-community forum.

I agree with you about the people v party choice in local elections. Which is why I am interested to hear what Margaret Munro, who in my view is electable, has to say on the schools. All we've heard so far is "we are not discussing the school" and "the whole thing may change after the elections" which is hardly inspiring.

Thanks for the kind thoughts. On Wednesday Poppy gave me a weird concotion to assist in the prevention of night sweats. Last night, the first in a while, i didn't sweat. So maybe its going away?

[Poppy]

On Wednesday Poppy gave me a weird concotion to assist in the prevention of night sweats. Last night, the first in a while, i didn't sweat. So maybe its going away?

A quick shimmy OT, but I feel I should state that the 'weird concoction' was nothing weirder than sage teabags!

[Jamesie]

Alison Miller was in the year above me at Porty High! True blue even when at school.

[Bob Jefferson]

From Lawrence Marshall:

Dear All

As you're maybe aware, the Scottish Parliament has decreed that the voting system for this May's local council elections should be very different from what generations of folk have hitherto been used to.

Instead of one councillor per ward there will now be three or four councillors per a much bigger ward. The number of councillors in Edinburgh will stay the same - at 58 - but the number of wards will now be just 17. For instance, the new Portobello & Craigmillar ward will comprise only half of the old Portobello ward, all of the old Milton and Craigmillar wards and a sliver of the old Duddingston ward. In some cases you'll find more than one candidate from any party on the same ballot paper! So you won't put an X against the person you prefer but rather a 1 and a 2 against your second preference, etc.. You can stop at 1 but you could do 1,2 or 1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4, etc.. - it's up to you!

A bit confused?! Then please feel free to come along to Portobello Town Hall in the early evening of Wednesday 14th March for one of only 4 information meetings being held across the city this month. Please do register your interest beforehand with Linsay MacLean at linsay.maclean@edinburgh.gov.uk or by 'phone at 529 4777.

[seanie]

I suspect a number of candidates might be a little ambiguous on the question of the schools. Actually taking a position runs the risk of alienating potential voters, regardless of the position taken. Tactically it'll probably appeal to make general noises of displeasure about aspects of the issue (how it's been handled, division within the community, the consultation process, the state of the existing schools, the method of funding, the timescale etc.) whilst avoiding nailing their colours to the mast as to how exactly the issue should be resolved.

One of the few consolations of oppositional politics is that you're free to criticise without having to sully yourself in the messy business of actually trying to sort problems yourself

[Bob Jefferson]

It is certainly going to be a key issue for a lot of people.

The prospective councillors have now all been advised of the online hustings. You have until 31 March to submit your question(s) to the candidates. These should be sent to me, either by email or by private message.

[Sandra]

Alison Miller was in the year above me at Porty High! True blue even when at school.

Ali's great, she used to work beside me

You are quite young then!! (I don't mean that in a bad way )

[wangi]

I'm sure any of them would do a competent job. After all local government isn't really about the political party or even the personality, it's about getting a job done. And in the end that job comes down to a lot of hard work, slog and admin.

Re Labour in particular - I'd never vote Labour in a national election, but in a council election no problem. To be honest I cannot see the need for any of the candidates to tie their colours to a party...

[Porty]

I suspect a number of candidates might be a little ambiguous on the question of the schools. Actually taking a position runs the risk of alienating potential voters, regardless of the position taken. Tactically it'll probably appeal to make general noises of displeasure about aspects of the issue (how it's been handled, division within the community, the consultation process, the state of the existing schools, the method of funding, the timescale etc.) whilst avoiding nailing their colours to the mast as to how exactly the issue should be resolved.

One of the few consolations of oppositional politics is that you're free to criticise without having to sully yourself in the messy business of actually trying to sort problems yourself

Are you Margaret's agent?

Bob is Stephen H definitely standing for election?

[seanie]

"Where do you stand on the issue of the schools Candidate?"

"Well education is an issue close to my heart. Our children deserve the best possible start in life and it is a damning indictment of the current administration that our schools are in the state they are. Urgent action is required to sort out the mess they've created. At the same time, the importance of green space is also clear. We must protect out precious natural habitats for our own and future generations. And I must say how disappointed I am at how the whole process has been conducted. We have a vibrant united community that has been ill served by the handling of what is a vitally important issue. I think we need a fresh perspective and if elected will ensure we obtain the best possible outcome for our entire community."

"Yes but how do you think the issue should actually be resolved?"

"I'm sorry. We have limited time for questions and I really think we should explore other topics."

[Bob Jefferson]

Bob is Stephen H definitely standing for election?

I was originally told it was Gary Peacock who was standing for Lib Dem but there seems to have been a late change of plan.

[bearcub]

To be honest I cannot see the need for any of the candidates to tie their colours to a party...

Same here, I would like it if everyone was Independent of party politics at this level (and higher to be honest, but that's another story) and just represented the area to the best of their abilities.

[seanie]

But someone who isn't affilated to a Political party will still have political views, a particular set of values and opinions, that will influence their decisions. It not simply a question of which candidate will represent their constituency to the best of their abilities but rather in what manner will they represent their constituency. What's "best" is a subjective, value judgement.

One advantage of political parties is that it gives the electorate a rule of thumb as to how the person they're being asked to vote for will act. Not exactly. But familiarity with their parties gives an indication of what you can expect from them whether or not you know much about them as individuals.

Independent candidates on the other hand tend to be more of a pig in a poke. Unless you've had dealings with them personally, which most of the electorate are unlikely to, you're less certain just what kind of representation you'll be getting. Successful independents tend to have either a single-issue protest vote to call upon, or they're previously elected party members who've left their party but retained the loyalty of their constituents.

The new voting system should help them but I still think independents face a big uphill task.

[Bob Jefferson]

From Maureen Child:

If you are aware of anyone who intends to go along to next week's meeting in Portobello (detailed below) to learn more about the new election process, but has not sent RSVP, can you please ask them to respond urgently, or it is possible that the meeting might be cancelled.

WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS TAKING PLACE ON THURSDAY 3 MAY 2007?

The City of Edinburgh Council, in conjunction with the Electoral Reform Society and Lothian Valuation Joint Board, is organising a series of public, non-political, meetings to help explain the different voting systems that will be used in the elections to be held on 3 May 2007.

As before, Members of the Scottish Parliament will be elected using the “first past the post” system for constituency MSPs and the Additional Member system for the regional “List” MSPs. For the first time in the local government elections, however, councillors will be elected using the Single Transferable Vote system and these meetings will give you the chance to find out how that will work. There will also be information about Getting Registered to Vote, including postal/proxy votes.

Each evening will follow the same format and there will be plenty of leaflets and information to take away:

• Doors open
  Tea/coffee available
  Getting Registered to Vote
  How and where to vote
  How the Single Transferable Vote system works
  Questions and answer
  Finish

Wednesday 14 March: Portobello Town Hall, Portobello High Street


Please RSVP to Linsay MacLean linsay.maclean@edinburgh.gov.uk (tel 0131 529 4777) if you and your group would like to attend and how many people you anticipate will be present.

Yours sincerely

TOM AITCHISON
Chief Executive and Returning Officer

[Porty]

Bob is Stephen H definitely standing for election?

I was originally told it was Gary Peacock who was standing for Lib Dem but there seems to have been a late change of plan.

May have been a spot of feather ruffling going on

[Bob Jefferson]

As proud as a Porty pun.

[Bob Jefferson]

Wednesday 14 March: Portobello Town Hall, Portobello High Street

I'm told that this meeting (see above for details) is now definitely going ahead. It's open to the public and registration is requested but not essential.

[Bob Jefferson]

A reminder to everyone that you have until the end of this month to submit your questions to the candidates. This is your opportunity to put them on the spot on the key issues that will inform your voting decisions.

The questions should be sent to me and addressed to all of the candidates, rather than to any one in particular. Members can use the private messaging facility to send in their questions or anyone can email me at r.jefferson@blueyonder.co.uk

In addition to this, Portobelly Telly will be making short 'party political broadcast'-type films for each of the candidates wishing to participate. This is an opportunity for the candidates to put their case, and their face, to the electorate.

Traditional hustings meetings will take place at Portobello Town Hall on Wednesday 18 April and on Wednesday 25 April in the Capacity Building Project in Niddrie Mains Terrace (to be confirmed). More details as soon as I get them.

[Porty]

Bob here's my question its in 3 parts.

"
On December 21st 2006 at a full meeting of City Of Edinburgh Council the replacement of Portobello High School on Portobello Park was given unanimous cross-party support, which included two of the candidates standing for election here in the Portobello/Craigmillar ward. The proposal is subject to funding and planning requirements.

a) If you are elected will you give total support to the rebuild of Portobello High School on Portobello Park from the outset?

B) Do you consider the proposed size of the school building and ancillary sports facilities is large enough ?

c) Please share your personal vision of what facilities should be provided in the new school and how it can best integrate with the community at large?""

[Poppy]

Porty, I thought people were supposed to PM or email Bob with their questions rather than give the candidates a sneak preview??!!