Bandstand on Prom

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 18 Jun 2005, 20:49

The Community Development Planning team have come up with an idea to erect a bandstand on the concrete 'cake-stand' on the Prom. We even have an artist's impression of what it might look like:

Bandstand on Prom

We reckon it might cost around Ã‚Â£50k in total and we intend to apply for a Lottery grant to help pay for it.

I think it's a great idea and would benefit the whole community. It would provide a venue for local musicians and entertainers and could double as a youth shelter in the evening. We might even be able to use it as a Fringe venue?

We are still exploring the idea, but I thought it would be useful to get some feedback. What do you think?

Post by **wangi** » 19 Jun 2005, 00:03

Owffy like the one at the east end of the prom!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Jun 2005, 07:50

a place to perform on the prom would be fantastic for the local bellydancers from the classes both at the porty swim centre and the fisherrow community centre in musselburgh...... a perfect place to shimmy in the sunshine- even if its not sunny!!!!

a plan for making the prom all it can be would definitely have my full support!

Lorna Gow

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Jun 2005, 07:57

Some examples here

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Jun 2005, 14:10

Hi Bob,

I for one like the idea of this very much so. I will pass onto the other POD members.

Cheers

Joe Madden

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 19 Jun 2005, 14:17

The only act we have confirmed at the moment are the belly dancers. A facility for perhaps 20? or so belly dancers in the area, to use on maybe 14 days a year. Personally. The idea lacks ambition, planning and foresight. I imagine it went something like this "Anyone think of what we can put on that cake stand?"

There are more than enough facilities for belly dancers already. If they want to belly dance outside on a sunny day, why do the need a roof over their heads? As soon as we let belly dancers take responsibilty for local infrastrurure decisions I believe we are in trouble .JMHO

Is a bit like the Community Cafe idea in Kirkwoods, except there are little or no ongoing costs. If we are to have a Bandstand why not include it in the Paddling Pool site?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 19 Jun 2005, 15:20

I think it's a pretty good idea. At the moment we have what looks like an incomplete project and a rather unattractive one at that. Does anyone know what the 'cake stand' was intended to be?

A bandstand will make the area look more attractive and have the added benefit of doubling up as the *whispers it* much requested youth shelter.

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 19 Jun 2005, 15:31

yesterday when we were out walking bess there was a girl with a guitar sitting on bottom tier of cake stand strumming away and singing - she was acutally rather good, she looked like she was just doing it for enjoyment as she didn't have anything with her to collect any money.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Jun 2005, 16:39

I think this would be great. On the Youth side, it would be important to ensure that skateboard activity should not be ignored in the design as there are so few places where the youngsters can do this near enough home to be safe and far enough away from houses for the noise not to bother anyone.

The Belle Starrs playing there for the Strip the Willows and eightsome reels on the prom have given much pleasure to a wide audience as well as bringing people together in such a fun way. Pity they have to risk their instruments, equipment and hair do-s to the elements.

in friendship
Janet Fenton

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 19 Jun 2005, 20:14

I think it looks great and could possibly kill more than two seagulls with one stone. I've always had an issue with the 'cake' - when it was first put there we all waited with baited breath for it to be finished.......

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Jun 2005, 20:23

So how long ago was that, and what was it intended to be in the first place?

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 19 Jun 2005, 23:03

Can't remember exactly but at the very least I'd say 10 years. Actually I was looking at the grassy site just behind the cake tonight which you never see anybody using...............basketball/skatepark/five a side just popped into my head

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 19 Jun 2005, 23:17

Think this is a great idea and would happily support it by using it and organising things to go on it, coming to watch other folk.

Away for a month but happy to chat when back.

Sheila McWhirter

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 20 Jun 2005, 16:35

I think this is a great idea! It ties in with the idea of Portobello being a seaside town and I'm sure young people would appreciate using it as a shelter.Please keep us informed on how this develops.

Brian Greatorex

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 20 Jun 2005, 16:38

Brilliant idea! It's always been asking to be made into something like that. It would be good for it not to be a too traditional design because then it would just look sad and disused most of the time. A kind of bandstand cum teenager climbing frame sort of thing. Get a Barcelona designer to do it! They're good with interesting buildings and beach objects!

It would also be a little dance area for my final aim in life - a tea dance for Cuban dancing! But meanwhile Cuban bands would be enough for a weekend afternoon!

Nick Child

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 20 Jun 2005, 16:40

A bandstand on the Prom is something I have longed for! And yes, as Janet says, it would save our hairdo's. But more than that, it would establish the cake as a legitimate performance venue. This in turn would encourage musical event organisers to make things happen there. Think Hampstead Heath Bandstand - which throughout the summer has regular jazz evenings, classical quartets, dance bands, picnics, champagne, good ambience etc...YES!

Gica Loening

PS. I agree with Janet, that provision must be made for skate boarders, who have not really got anywhere else. (Shame they couldn't have the paddling pool bit!)

Post by **wangi** » 20 Jun 2005, 17:24

Bit confused by all these respondents Bob - can you maybe ask them what's stopping them from using the structure that looks identical to the artists impression? You know, the one outside the pumping station.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 20 Jun 2005, 20:24

I couldn't quite picture it, so I walked all the way along there beyond the House of Wang to the Edge of the Known World. Frankly, it would have been much easier if you had just pictured it and posted it for me.

Let's face it - it's not a bandstand. I don't know what it's supposed to be really. It might be a rain shelter, except that the seats are all on the outside. And they are facing the wrong way to be of use to spectators. And it's too small for any kind of entertainment, apart perhaps from a very small and intimate puppet show. (Punch and Judy?) It's just a folly really, an architect's doodle. If you have a look at the structure underneath, it looks as though it is starting to rust pretty badly as well. Don't suppose the salt water helps.

The 'cake stand' benefits from a more central location, is an ideal size, ready-made stage, grassy park, prom and beach for spectators.

You wouldn't like a skateboard facility at your end instead, would you?

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 20 Jun 2005, 21:05

Thats decent, will look really nice! Obviously it will be a strong structure so it cant be pulled down.

Those anti dog grids proved usless in the end!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 20 Jun 2005, 22:40

The natural and historic "Bandstand" area is the wider bit of the prom, adjacent to the Paddling Pool site. As far as I can tell the idea of the new band stand came about just because we already have a cake stand. At first thought a Bandstand seems preferable to a cake stand but in reality its just a cake stand with a roof.

We are now entering a period of justification with Belly dancers, Skate boarders and the like. What about a restaurant or coffee shop, a year round amenity? A number of people tell us "its a good idea". Would they care to explain why exactly? There is a sniff of the Emperor's Clothes about this.

Is there demand for a Bandstand? I would be interested to see how a case is going to be made for lottery funding.

The prom needs a whole strategy, Cycle/Skatebaording lanes, remodelling, the whole shooting match.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 20 Jun 2005, 22:53

Porty wrote:... its just a cake stand with a roof.

Which is better than a roofless cake stand. However, bearing in mind the Council's obsession with health and safety they'll come up with some excuse to oppose it.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 20 Jun 2005, 22:56

Epykat wrote:
Porty wrote:... its just a cake stand with a roof.
Which is better than a roofless cake stand.

Ã‚Â£50,000 better? Having a nice bandstand for a few months on Porty Prom would be a bit like giving Dot Cotton a Marlyin Monroe wig.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 20 Jun 2005, 22:57

Ah, now, don't get me started on cost - I agree with you there - I'm still reeling from the bargain that is the paddling pool

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 20 Jun 2005, 23:00

Epykat wrote:Ah, now, don't get me started on cost - I agree with you there - I'm still reeling from the bargain that is the paddling pool

Do you think if justification did become available for a Bandstand, that it would be better located and integrated with the PP site?

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 20 Jun 2005, 23:02

Probably, but since they're spending all that money on grass they won't want it ruined by a big metal thing which might be useful

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 20 Jun 2005, 23:09

Porty wrote:
Epykat wrote:Ah, now, don't get me started on cost - I agree with you there - I'm still reeling from the bargain that is the paddling pool
Do you think if justification did become available for a Bandstand, that it would be better located and integrated with the PP site?

We've waited years for something..anything...to be done to improve the paddling pool site. Are you suggesting that just when we're on the brink of getting something passed and work started we should halt proceedings and start a totally new inter-agency/multipile grant funded initiative?

Aside from the prospect of more years of delay, didn't the first plans fall flat on their face because of a refusal of funding from the Lottery?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 20 Jun 2005, 23:10

I think the less spent on Prom projects the better, for the moment. At some point "people" are going to wake up to the value of our resource. Its why I think the Pitz site is important. Stop applying elastaplast, let the patient erode until it is accepted that major surgery is required.

Tidy up the paddling pool site by all means but the Prom's day will come quicker if its left alone. The ideas will be bigger and the more space available at the point of ignition the better it will be. IMHO

( I was composing as you posted so didnt see it M but nothing you say changes my view, sorry dear)

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 21 Jun 2005, 06:27

I think a band stand would be really fun, it's always nice to have a bit of shelter from the rain when it's not being used for music and anything that encourages music on the prom would be great.

Thanks for the idea.

Rachel Harrison

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 21 Jun 2005, 10:46

A skateboarding band stand! A place for youths to go! Almost every band stand I have ever seen is used by youths to drink, sh*g and practice their graffiti. For example, the police are often called to the East end "bandstand" to deal with such problems and that's not even an enclosed bandstand.

If there was to be an additional band stand to the one in the east, then historically the Portobello band stand was sited at the Paddling Pool, which is why there is an extended prom area to incorporate the crowds who wish to watch any entertainment that happens to be playing.

Give me the Ã‚Â£50k to do up my garden and I will let you all come round and dance anytime you wish.

Post by **wangi** » 21 Jun 2005, 11:05

Bob Jefferson wrote:I couldn't quite picture it, so I walked all the way along there beyond the House of Wang to the Edge of the Known World. Frankly, it would have been much easier if you had just pictured it and posted it for me.

Actaully I think I do have a few photos of it up...

Bob Jefferson wrote:Let's face it - it's not a bandstand. I don't know what it's supposed to be really. It might be a rain shelter, except that the seats are all on the outside. And they are facing the wrong way to be of use to spectators. And it's too small for any kind of entertainment, apart perhaps from a very small and intimate puppet show. (Punch and Judy?) It's just a folly really, an architect's doodle. If you have a look at the structure underneath, it looks as though it is starting to rust pretty badly as well. Don't suppose the salt water helps.

Of course any structure fitted atop the cake stand will have to live with the same conditions - so money for maintenance would have to be considered.

Bob Jefferson wrote:You wouldn't like a skateboard facility at your end instead, would you?

The four local skateboarders already do use the steps and prom outside my house and around the "shelter". I don't know why everyone is so eager to provide facilities for skateboarders, given that there aint many of them. The rest of the teenages are too busy "drinking and sh*gging" (as it's been put already) to waste time trying to break their skulls open.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 21 Jun 2005, 12:09

Thought it would be beneficial to summarise the perceived merits of the proposed Bandstand.

Outdoor Belly Dancing on a sunny day (Belly dancing woman)
Fun and a place to shelter out of the rain (Rachel Harrison)
Joe Madden likes the idea but doesn’t say why?
More support for the Belly dancers from Janet Fenton “The Belle Starrs playing there for the Strip the Willows and eightsome reels on the prom have given much pleasure to a wide audience as well as bringing people together in such a fun way. Pity they have to risk their instruments, equipment and hair do-s to the elements.”

(albeit contradictory to the Belly dancers wish to perform on sunny days and not really addressing the issues of what happens to the spectators hair-do’s)

Make the place look more attractive- Marya

“Great idea” says Sheila McWhirter and backs it up with a series of non-specific events that are presumably only suited to Bandstand environments.

“benefit to the whole community” says our very own Bob , although he doesn’t say why? (will remain rust free is another positive inference from Bob.)
“Double as a Youth Shelter” again from Bob – although no details as to how Youths will be encouraged to shelter in the Bandstand are given and what they will do there also remains unspecified.
Nick Child steps ups the ante with “Brilliant idea” and comes up with a climbing frame twist and a Cuban Tea Dance.
Gica Loening states that a “bandstand on the Prom is something I have longed for” and envisages the development of a Hampstead Heath type scenario with music events etc.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 21 Jun 2005, 12:47

And the arguments against?

Not ambitious enough. Let the entire prom erode then tackle complete area. Porty

Give me the money instead. PoP

There are only 4 skateboarders in Portobello. They shouldn't be catered for. Wangi

BTW

porty wrote:More support for the Belly dancers from Janet Fenton Ã¢â‚¬Å“The Belle Starrs playing there for the Strip the Willows and eightsome reels on the prom

I've never seen bellydancers do a "Strip the Willow" Porty. I think you're confusing your Celtic Rock with your Turkish Delight.

Post by **wangi** » 21 Jun 2005, 12:59

Marya wrote:There are only 4 skateboarders in Portobello. They shouldn't be catered for. Wangi

That wasn't a point against the bandstand, it was just in general - skateboarding provision always seem to crop up and I cannot see why! Or maybe all those folk at Bristo Sq actually live in Portobello - Is that what I'm missing? Anyway, lumping it in with a bandstand does seem rather strange.

To be honest I think a bandstand would end up a folly much like the structure at the East end of the Prom.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 21 Jun 2005, 13:35

I must confess I may be with you on this one Wangi. I don't know how many skateboarders hone their skills on the steps of the 'cake stand' at the moment (which is where the link comes in, I think!), but I do suspect they are few in number. Skateboarding IMHO seems to be a craze that peaked a while ago. Certainly the ramp at Musselburgh doesn't seem that heavily used anytime I pass. I'm sure Bob's questionnaire, that was completed by the pupils at PHS, would give an indication of how many wanted skateboarding facilities. However, I would assume that the skaters could continue to use the base of the stand even if a bandstand/shelter was put on top.

I'm also assuming that the proposed bandstand would offer greater protection from the elements than the construction outside the pumping station, therefore proving more useful. Maybe I'm wrong?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 21 Jun 2005, 13:43

Marya wrote:And the arguments against?

Fortunately when the application for lottery funding is made a case will have to be made FOR the Bandstand. I was just trying to be helpful by listing all of the potential benefits. I didn't offer an opinion but if you want one then; I think the yes campaign needs to have a much stronger case than they put forward at the moment.

It sound very grand to say things like "benefit the whole community" and "brilliant idea" but such statements have to be backed up.

Your own point about making the area "look more attractive" is valid but for how long and at what cost?