Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc)

[Pal of Porty]

It's amazing how used you get to having or not having a car. I use my bike for quite a few trips e.g. On Saturday, PoP Junior and I cycled to the Fort for a little shopping and also to Ocean Terminal to go to the cinema. I would never have dreamed of doing this before I had my bike. You also get the added advantage of pi**ssing off lots of people on the Prom.

What makes the difference however is knowing that I have a car at home for those trips where you really need one. I cannot imagine coming back from Costco with just a rucksack!

[Sandra]

I cannot imagine coming back from Costco with just a rucksack!

[Puerto bella]

I have today e mailed the Council and some of the community councillors that I know, to try and get on the road to some sort of resolution on the issue of large vehicles, bins, blockages in the street and road safety. Will keep you posted on how it goes.

[Puerto bella]

Will be at the CC tonight to speak to them about ideas for the street if anyone would like to join me?

[Pal of Porty]

I have today e mailed the Council and some of the community councillors that I know, to try and get on the road to some sort of resolution on the issue of large vehicles, bins, blockages in the street and road safety. Will keep you posted on how it goes.

If you give your campaign an acronym starting with 'PA' (Porty Against)...... I know at least one councillor that will give you support!

[bellybabe]

We don't have a car - haven't had for six years. We manage just fine, although we only go to Costco when Marya offers to take us... And the traffic/parking/ratrunning still causes us hassle. We have masive problems with delivery trucks etc as the street is just too narrow and the parking crazy (I remember when the flat across the road was firebombed just after we moved in and there was a serious problem getting the fire engine to it); the bollard by the corner of the carpark doesn't work well as I've often almost had my toes run over by inconsiderate drivers who can't be bothered driving round the pavement.

And the problem isn't only east to west - Mentone Avenue is used all the time as a rat run to get to Bath St and then down to Straiton...and the 20mph sign doesn't seem to measn anything to a lot of those drivers. Luckily it only happens one way because of the no entry at the top but it still makes life a bit dangerous for the kids playing out as people come racing round the corner.

And don't get me started on the Bingo !!!

Look at that - I only drop in once every six months, but I'm still always good for a rant...!

BB

[wangi]

Pal of Porty and I watched this idiot for a bit this morning...

Great driving

His question - where's Leith Docks? He plugged in Bath St to the sat nav; ignored all the signs to Leith and somehow managed not to end up at *Bath Road*. No idea how that flat bed truck is getting / got out...

[seanie]

Traffic issues came up at the last PCC meeting; in response to The PCC raising the issue with the Neigbourhood Partnership, the Council is looking to consult local residents regarding Bath St, Straiton Place & Marlborough St. The PCC has suggested inviting people to a workshop to look at the issues, perhaps sometime in June.

[Sandra]

agree Straiton Place and Bath Street a problem but not Marlborough St.

Large removal van the other day doing exactly the same as that truck

[seanie]

The top of Marlborough St is a bit tight no?

[Maria]

Seanie can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Council also had a complaint from a resident of Marlborough Street. The resident was unable to get a wheeelchair out onto the pavement, because of cars parked on the pavement. The Council asked the car owners to park on the street, then asked the Fire Brigade to try to access the street.They couldn't.

[Grunk]

Traffic issues came up at the last PCC meeting; in response to The PCC raising the issue with the Neigbourhood Partnership, the Council is looking to consult local residents regarding Bath St, Straiton Place & Marlborough St. The PCC has suggested inviting people to a workshop to look at the issues, perhaps sometime in June.

Seems to me that the traffic issue is mainly due to the timing and synchronisation of the traffic lights and surrounding pedestrian crossings at Brighton place.
In the morning there are quite often wasted green phases as the pedestrian crossing is at red and no more cars can exit the junction. If they synchronised the pedestrian crossing to the crossroads you should be able to get a larger throughput.

I guess there are other simple things that can be done, like banning parking opposite bus stops and junctions (on narrow roads) so that you can maintain a flow when there is a bus/car waiting.

[SoupDragon]

There's been much tooting in Straiton Place today
Its not helped by the hole dug in the road, no idea why its there but our electric was cut off without warning a couple of days after they dug it.
There's also been at least two cars parked on the double yellow lines

[Puerto bella]

Yip - fun and games at this end too. What joys.

[Puerto bella]

If you are on Facebook you might want to join the group Portobello Traffic Nightmares. Lots of discussion on the issues and you can actually see the people you are that you're discussing things with - for all those lurkers out there - no hiding place on Fb!

[Maria]

Traffic and Parking Consultation: 25 May 2011; 7 to 9pm @ Portobello Town Hall

[Puerto bella]

Thanks Maria, a leaflet came through the door today as well - makes a welcome change from the inconsiderate practically driving through the door when they're taking their short cut across the pavement. Hope there's a good turn out and a healthy productive discussion.

[wangi]

For those who didn't manage to make it along last night here is a copy of the presentation:

Portobello Traffic Management 25 May 2011.ppt (Microsoft PPT, 1.5MB)
Portobello Traffic Management 25 May 2011.pdf (PDF 0.5MB)

And the video:

On 11 April 2011, the East Neighbourhood Team organised a demonstration with Lothian & Borders Fire & Rescue Service and local resident to show the current difficulties caused by traffic and parking in the Portobello, Edinburgh area.

This video was first shown on 25 May 2011 at a Public Event for local people to discuss the problems and possible suggestions with Council Officers.

FAQ
Why was this event held?

This event was held because residents of Portobello have been telling us of problems they see daily with traffic and parking and ask that these be looked at. Some examples are vehicles being parked on pavements, access problems for emergency vehicles and heavy vehicles becoming stuck on corners or unable to pass.

What has been done so far?

We have surveyed the area and also tested access for emergency vehicles. We have looked at a range of options in outline and have prepared drawings to allow you to highlight areas of concern and see what some suggestions would look like, for example, one way streets or new parking spaces.

Are there detailed plans to make changes to parking?

Not at this stage. We want to get a picture of what the biggest issues for residents may be and the impacts you see of any possible changes.

What do we want from you?

We would like you to tell us if you think there are issues or problems. If you think there are how do you think these are best resolved? Equally, if you think there is no need to do anything please tell us. We are keen to hear all viewpoints to see if action is required and what the priorities should be.

What happens next?

We will collate all the information from this event and present it to the Portobello and Craigmillar Neighbourhood Partnership for discussion. If action is thought to be necessary we would prepare detailed proposals for further consultation with affected residents and the wider community.

Contact us:
eastteam@edinburgh.gov.uk

For further information:
http://www.edinburghnp.org.uk/neighbour ... raigmillar

L/

[cuth]

Maybe the fire brigade should have measured the width of the streets that they serve before buying a fire engine that is too wide to fit down our streets.

[rmolehusband]

...before buying a fire engine that is too wide to fit down our streets.

The streets are all more then wide enough for the existing fire engines. Most of the problem is caused by people temporarily abandoning their property in the street and on the pavement to such an extent that there is no room for the fire engine.

[Epykat]

This isn't a new problem in Marlborough Street (and surrounding streets). We lived in Marlborough Street 25 years ago and every day I had to walk up the middle of the road with my kids in a double buggy because cars were parked on both sides on the pavement.

[SoupDragon]

Me too, Epy, around the same time as I recall

Way back in the 70s my grandmother would sit at her window and watch the cars, coaches and lorries trying to get round the corner of Bath St and Straiton Place

Thanks for postingt he link to the proposals, we couldn't make the meeting for various reasons
Will have good look at them
I feel restricting the parking is going to be the only solution but it will push the cars into parking further along to the East
I'm wondering how congested Bellfield St will get in the morning with cars trying to ease out into the High St, at least there's a chance of getting out via Bath St due to the traffic lights

[magbagpuss]

Was walking along the High Street today just before 12 heading from Marlbourgh St towards Regent Street . There were 3 fire engines trying to get down the road. It seemed like a going job as there was an incident officer. As we got to Bath Street an engine pulled up and the fire men went down the lane that runs between Bath and Regent Streets. It really looked like the guys were having bother.Does anyone know if people were ok . hope so . Never seen it so bad to access. Soupy did you hear anything ???

[SoupDragon]

I haven't heard anything about it, wasn't home at the time

Cant place the lane you mean.

[Grunk]

Looking at the pdf it seems that there is only really one suggestion for reducing the rat running, which is to create a one way system going away from the junction.

Although this seems like a reasonable idea, I can't help but feel it is treating the symptoms rather than the problem...

People rat-run because there is a build up of traffic behind the junction, like water when there is a build up of pressure it will find another way. If the roads are converted to a one way system, this does nothing to encourage the flow of traffic through the junction, and will probably increase the tailbacks.

If that happens then people will be using the other (Argyle Crescent) side of the road for their rat running.

The proper solution is to ensure that there is good flow through the junction. This would be by increasing the phase in the direction of flow (maybe even having 2 phases per cycle) and synchronising the pedestrian crossings.

Consideration as to why people choose to go through Portobello as opposed to Harry Lauder Road (and the marvelous new junctions at Milton Road and Kings road) should also be made. As well as to reasoning behind not having a public transport link to Leith and the north side of the city when so many people want to drive along seafield road, especially when there is a railway that does that exact route.

As for the parking... why not just have end on parking (bays at the appropriate angle) on one side of the road? If your vehicle doesn't fit in the bay (vans/minibuses), you'll need to find a space elsewhere.

[wangi]

Good points Grunk.

Consideration as to why people choose to go through Portobello as opposed to Harry Lauder Road (and the marvelous new junctions at Milton Road and Kings road) should also be made. As well as to reasoning behind not having a public transport link to Leith and the north side of the city when so many people want to drive along seafield road, especially when there is a railway that does that exact route.

Most people are probably unaware that First have recently started a Musselburgh / Seton Sands to Ocean Terminal route - 129 - which goes through Portobello. Although the Portobello - Lochend - Ocean Terminal bit only has an hourly frequency: http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/scotlan ... &source=sp

[Pal of Porty]

The works at The Milton Link, Kings Road and Duddingston Park junctions have had a significant impact on the traffic flow through Portobello in my opinion. I live in Joppa and the traffic that now passes my front door since the Milton Link changes has almost doubled. I suggest this is because the traffic is now choosing to go via Porty rather than taking the Milton Road option when travelling from the Musselburgh Direction. I myself never used to travel via Porty to go to town and always took the Milton Road option but I am now 100% via Porty because it takes me so long going the Milton Road route. It is also much more difficult to cross the road at Seaview Terrace and sometimes takes ages to pull out in a car to join the traffic. On a purely selfish basis, I hate the Milton Link junction and the daily impact it has on me. I have not even had the benefit of cycling safely through The Milton Link junction because if I am up that way on my bike, I just take the innocent link!

PS Total sense to time the Pedestrian crossing at the Town Hall with the Bath Street lights at peak times - been glaringly obvious for some time it would help things.

[Makaveli]

Whoever sanctioned that pedestrian crossing at the Town Hall wants shooting in my opinion - there are a perfectly good set of crossing lights a few yards along the road at Bath Street as POP says.

I have sat there on dozens of occasions watching the traffic build up cos one person can't be bothered to walk a few yards to the actual crossing!!!!

[rmolehusband]

I have sat there on dozens of occasions watching the traffic build up cos one person can't be bothered to walk a few yards to the actual crossing!!!!

You're so right, the high street is a thoroughfare for cars and, frankly, it's these selfish pedestrions, insisting on walking around and visiting shops that cause the problems. In fact, If we god rid of the peds altogether we could do away with the pavement altogether and squeeze in two lanes of traffic in each direction.

[Makaveli]

I would take your point seriously if was not for the fact that there can only be 20 yards between the crossing and the junction - is it seriously asking too much for people to walk that far?

Maybe you (rmolehusband) enjoy having poluting cars stinking up the high street as they wait in traffic but I personally do not. I fear my point has gone way over your head.

[wangi]

It doesn't have to be either/or... You can have the lights at the crossroads and pedestrian crossing outside the Town Hall. However the current timings just lead to unnecessary delays. Synchronising the two sets would improve matters.

Changing the Town Hall crossing from a signal to a zebra crossing might be the best of both worlds...

[Bob Jefferson]

Isn't there some confusion here? The Town Hall pedestrian crossing is pedestrian-activated, not phased. If no-one presses the button then traffic is not hindered. Are people suggesting that this crossing should be synched with the phased crossing at the crossroads? How exactly would that work? As for getting rid of, or down-grading, the crossing at the Town Hall, take a look at the number of primary school-aged children who use this crossing twice a day to get to and from school. Pedestrians rule, motorists can wait. And if drivers could try stopping at the red light, that would be most appreciated.

[Bazza]

It's 70 yards from one to the other, so 140 yards round trip. Not much, I agree, but more than 3 times further than suggested.

It shouldn't be too hard to sync them AND maintain a user-request crossing. I could have a go at thinking up a solution, but I'm sure that this has been solved before.

[Bazza]

I think a zebra crossing would make things worse - there'd be a constant trickle of pedestrians, with no gap for traffic.

[Makaveli]

I don't think that school kids would have much difficulty walking 70 yards (thanks for the clarification Bazza) to get to a crossing.

I stand by my first statement that the pedestrian crossing is too close to the junction to be of any use other than to prolong traffic sitting stationary on the High Street affecting the air quality that the pedestrians have to breathe. Maybe all the car fumes in the air are making it difficult for pedestrians to walk 70 yards!!!