Old paddling pool site on the Promenade.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 09:38

Gemini wrote:Why don't you utilise your obvious talent for photography to aid community projects.

Steady on Gem old girl. You are posting on POL, which is a community project and Wangi devotes a good deal of time and expertise to helping it run smoothly. His photos are also used all over the site and give much pleasure.

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 01 Dec 2004, 11:18

Agreed, Porty old scone, Wangi's photos are excellent, but my thoughts are that perhaps he might be interested in taking shots of how Porty is now - just in case!

ali · Post by **ali** » 01 Dec 2004, 11:23

Don't the moderators have something to say about this??

personal attacks, rudeness - why is she allowed to get away with it, Bob??

(She was a bit nippy with me a couple of weeks ago, too)

Gemini and her increasingly obsessive, paranoid and hysterical tone re the Pcats campaign is doing said campaign no good whatsoever

- thats fine by me - I look forward to shopping at the new Tesco - but I'm beginning to think that she is allowed to rant on like this because of her support for pcats.

it doesn't seem fair that monkeyboy is chased away for use of a tiny avatar featuring the kind of violence that can be seen in ads for games and movies on TV any night of the weekand gemini hands out this kind of rudeness regularly and not a word is said.

Post by **wangi** » 01 Dec 2004, 11:55

Gemini wrote:Agreed, Porty old scone, Wangi's photos are excellent, but my thoughts are that perhaps he might be interested in taking shots of how Porty is now - just in case!

Oh, don't worry - I do have High St shots of Portobello with folk busy shopping etc - just not got them online!

Might write a post next door on the superstore thread later re some other points.

L.

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 01 Dec 2004, 13:25

ali wrote:Don't the moderators have something to say about this??

personal attacks, rudeness - why is she allowed to get away with it, Bob??

(She was a bit nippy with me a couple of weeks ago, too)

Gemini and her increasingly obsessive, paranoid and hysterical tone re the Pcats campaign is doing said campaign no good whatsoever

- thats fine by me - I look forward to shopping at the new Tesco - but I'm beginning to think that she is allowed to rant on like this because of her support for pcats.

it doesn't seem fair that monkeyboy is chased away for use of a tiny avatar featuring the kind of violence that can be seen in ads for games and movies on TV any night of the weekand gemini hands out this kind of rudeness regularly and not a word is said.

Is this not a personal attack also?

I am sure that you are either ill informed or possibly unaware of the serious future ramifications - due to land problems in the immediate vicinity of this site, perhaps if this development was potentially damaging for your home's stability - you would realise that there are more issues at stake here (regardless of what type of development goes on the former SP site) I/we, am not just campaining for CATS, I/we are just trying to stop any development which will futher undermine the integrity of people's homes. Unfortunately for us, there is absolutley no guidance in Scottish Legislation that protects communities in our postion, the Gilmerton Limestone fiasco was another example of development taking place in an area of instability and more recently at Brunstane.
Our own residents group are being forced into a lengthy and extremly expensive litigation process through omissions from past developers.

I think I have apologised for my 'rudeness' as you put it, however, if you care to look back over previous threads by other posters, you will notice that I am not the only poster who can be a tad curt.

[/b]

Mimpty · Post by **Mimpty** » 01 Dec 2004, 14:31

ali wrote:it doesn't seem fair that monkeyboy is chased away for use of a tiny avatar featuring the kind of violence that can be seen in ads for games and movies on TV any night of the weekand gemini hands out this kind of rudeness regularly and not a word is said.

Now I feel guilty for saying I didn't like Monkeyboy's avatar. (But appreciate his removing it).
Usually by the time I get to read POL there are so many comments and some mirroring my own point of view my own remarks seem superfluous, but I got in quick on that one.
I am sorry if it has made Monkeyboy feel unwelcome.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 14:43

Gemini wrote: I am not the only poster who can be a tad curt.

What a difference one letter can make.

I condone Ali's view that there is often an ambivalent doling out of discipline and tolerance demonstrated on POL.

Incidentally, I do not percieve Gemini as being particularly badly behaved or rude. Although I must say her habit of posting a link without any comment whatsoever gets on my t its.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 01 Dec 2004, 15:07

ali wrote:Don't the moderators have something to say about this??

personal attacks, rudeness - why is she allowed to get away with it, Bob??

I've been keeping an eye on this thread, but have not intervened because Wangi seemed to be happy handling the situation himself, certainly with regards to Gemini's personal attacks. I would agree though that there are some quite personal remarks in this thread, and the discussion is becoming pretty heated. It can be difficult to balance people's right to free speech with their responsibility to not cause offence, and whilst we do watch what is happening I don't think any of us want POL to be too much of a nanny state. The posting guidelines are clear about poster's responsibilities here, and Gemini along with one or two other people might perhaps make time to reread them. I agree that there is no call for Gemini to make personal attacks, although i was not aware that it was a habit of hers other than with certain members where a lot of mutual teasing happens, and I think that comment to Wangi was uncalled for. However...

Gemini and her increasingly obsessive, paranoid and hysterical tone re the Pcats campaign is doing said campaign no good whatsoever

- thats fine by me - I look forward to shopping at the new Tesco - but I'm beginning to think that she is allowed to rant on like this because of her support for pcats.

...I can't help but think, Ali, that in a complaint about Gemini's personal attacks, this sounds remarkably like a personal attack on Gemini. Is your point that Gemini did it so you can? Or simply that you would like us to give you both a row?!

With regard to the accusation about Gemini's support for Pcats influencing us, I have to refute that. You may have a view of Bob that leads you to believe he is a supporter of the campaign and he may indeed be, but that does not mean he is willing to ignore innappropriate behaviour on the forum because of it. It also ignores the fact that in the superstore thread Bob did get into something of a wrangle with the Pcats supporters who accused him of not being supportive enough - I guess he can't win. I think you are making assumptions when it comes to Marya and myself that don't seem to be based very much in fact. I resent the suggestion that we allow people to do what they like because of their political views - for a start, I don't mention much about mine here so how can you know if that's the case?

it doesn't seem fair that monkeyboy is chased away for use of a tiny avatar featuring the kind of violence that can be seen in ads for games and movies on TV any night of the weekand gemini hands out this kind of rudeness regularly and not a word is said.

I'm not sure that Monkeyboy's avatar is really relevant here, but clearly some people think it shows a lack of consistency. There is currently no specific posting guidleine for avatars as we had not been aware of the need for one; however, an avatar is in fact posted by the user and is therefore subject to posting guidelines, and Monkeyboy's avatar did in fact, however unintentionally, cause offence. As far as I am aware Monkeyboy has accepted our explanation and he agreed to remove it.

In terms of consistency of approach, we do our best. We wish to make the forum a good place to be for all members, and we do what we can to achieve that. Sometimes of course we do not manage it. In trying to be reasonable about people's freedom of speech, we may perhaps err on the side of leniency when a user seems willing to handle the situation him or her self. Perhaps we should be stricter and call everyone to account for everything they say which might possibly cause offence...but then we can't have fun and joke with each other or tease each other, either - and the joke thread would have to be deleted! When a forum member does have a problem with another member, we are available to take action if requested, and do.

I would like to point out that these are my views as a moderator, and that my fellow moderators may wish to add to or contradict anything I've said!

ali · Post by **ali** » 01 Dec 2004, 15:57

Ok - maybe I did fall in to the trap of being a bit intemperate in my appeal for evenhandedness here - and I apologise to Gemini for that.

However - there's joking and teasing and thats all very well but Gemini goes over the top sometimes in my opinion.

Lets leave it at that.

Whoopee - 50 posts!!!!!!

(and its only taken me about 18 months)

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 01 Dec 2004, 16:04

I heartily endorse all that Bellybabe has said.
We Mods have a life outwith the Forum (believe it or not!) and can't be there every minute of the day to supervise what is being posted, nor should we have to. Some threads are closer to our hearts than others and the emotional pull can result in some strongly worded views being expressed.
On reading this thread it seems to me that Wangi and Gemini had resolved the problem pretty swiftly, but I can fully understand why other posters felt aggrieved on Wangi's behalf.
I believe as Mods we try to be as consistent and as even handed as is humanly possible and would hate to think that anyone feels unfairly treated by us.
May I remind everyone that today is the 1 December and a little festive feeling towards our fellow man/woman may be just what we need right now.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 16:37

Marya wrote:I believe as Mods we try to be as consistent and as even handed as is humanly possible and would hate to think that anyone feels unfairly treated by us.

Marya, yourself and BB were appointed Mods quite recently, maybe 3 or 4 months ago? Have either of you performed even a trvial moderation on anyting that has been posted to date?

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 01 Dec 2004, 17:10

Porty, I'm not even sure what your question means.

As moderators, on the whole, rather than go for a single-handed dictatorial approach, we prefer where possible to discuss matters that arise - that avoids bias as much as possible. For example, I have actually had a post of my own deleted after discussion between Marya and Bob about it - I was happy to accept their decision, and think it's absolutely vital that I should be subject to the same rules as everyone else. Bob himself removed an avatar of his own I found offensive, at my request.

So the idea of either of us "performing a moderation" doesn't really mean very much. We discuss matter and then decide on the most appropriate course of action. And courses of action usually involve discussion and/or explanation with the person involved - e.g. Monkeyboy about his avatar.

I also think that perhaps this isn't the right place for this discussion - it's most definitely got off-topic now. Watch it or I'll send my brothers round

.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 01 Dec 2004, 17:14

ali wrote: Lets leave it at that.

Good plan.

Congratulations on the 50!!! You'll soon be going Potty! Well, ok, might take a wee bit longer

...

Post by **wangi** » 01 Dec 2004, 17:17

Bellybabe wrote:I also think that perhaps this isn't the right place for this discussion - it's most definitely got off-topic now. Watch it or I'll send my brothers round .

I'm backing up the forum software as we speak, might get round to installling a mod tomorrow which will allow posts to be moved from one topic to another...

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 17:52

From Bellybabe: " Porty, I'm not even sure what your question means."

Well, for someone who isn't sure what my question means

you did a pretty good job of answering it.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 01 Dec 2004, 17:53

Thank you darling...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 01 Dec 2004, 18:12

And I would like to say that I am very grateful for having two very wise and wonderful co-moderators who have done such a great job since coming on board and made my task so much easier.

Wangi - thanks, that would be a very useful mod.

As for the rest of this thread - the least said the better. It started with a totally spurious argument and went downhill from there.

In case anyone has forgotten, this thread is about the Paddling Pool site. If you wish to discuss any other matter please find an appropriate thread or start a new one.

And be nice. Santa is watching!

Beach Babe · Post by **Beach Babe** » 01 Dec 2004, 18:25

we could make the paddling pool into a temporary ice-rink and have a Winter Wonderland

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 01 Dec 2004, 19:02

Finally, the voice of reason.

DG · Post by DG » 01 Dec 2004, 19:35

we could make the paddling pool into a temporary ice-rink and have a Winter Wonderland

I love this idea

DG

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 01 Dec 2004, 19:55

We just need to fill it with water. Should be cold enough tonight!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 20:14

Bob wrote:And I would like to say that I am very grateful for having two very wise and wonderful co-moderators who have done such a great job since coming on board and made my task so much easier.

Bob, are there hidden moderators we don't know about?

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 01 Dec 2004, 20:27

Watch it, mister. We know where you live, and where you work, and we'll be seeing you on Saturday...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 01 Dec 2004, 20:30

I wouldn't mess with these girls Porty, especially when they are in attack mode.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 20:31

Bob wrote:As for the rest of this thread - the least said the better. It started with a totally spurious argument and went downhill from there.

Which argument was totally spurious?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 20:33

Bob wrote:I wouldn't mess with these girls Porty, especially when they are in attack mode.

Good advice Bob, I had no idea you were refering to the B And the M.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 01 Dec 2004, 20:39

I really don't want to rake this up again. The issue of whether the Council should or could fund PCATS has been dealt with pretty conclusively elsewhere on this board and has zilch to do with the funding of the Paddling Pool site.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 20:55

Bob wrote:I really don't want to rake this up again. The issue of whether the Council should or could fund PCATS has been dealt with pretty conclusively elsewhere on this board and has zilch to do with the funding of the Paddling Pool site.

Ok, fine by me. I was just looking for clarity, thanks.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 01 Dec 2004, 21:19

Where there is darkness on the edge of town, let us bring light.

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 01 Dec 2004, 22:06

quote Bob.Where there is darkness on the edge of town, let us bring light.

This made me immediately think of our dear old Maggie T!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 01 Dec 2004, 22:18

Gemini wrote:quote Bob.Where there is darkness on the edge of town, let us bring light.

This made me immediately think of our dear old Maggie T!

At least that's a break from thinking about the Superstore.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 01 Dec 2004, 22:25

And to get back on topic.........

Gemini, I can see how passionate you are about the superstore and I think it's brilliant that we have somebody like you fighting our corner. However, I am just as passionate about the paddling pool. It was a big part of my and my childrens' childhood and a great asset to Portobello. I think a winter wonderland would be fantastic.......now.......where did I put my new gazebo??????

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 01 Dec 2004, 23:26

Gemini, I can see how passionate you are about the superstore and I think it's brilliant that we have somebody like you fighting our corner. However, I am just as passionate about the paddling pool. It was a big part of my and my childrens' childhood and a great asset to Portobello. I think a winter wonderland would be fantastic.......

Thanks for this Epycat, I understand where you are coming from re the paddling pool, and agree with your statement regarding the errosion of green space in the community. a winter wonderland sounds a brill. idea.

I have just heard that there is another problem rearing its ugly head regarding the rellocation of the Community Centre to the Pitz site along with the Library - the Pitz site is recreational space - and the proposals appear to be that housing is is being planned for this site with only a small space for the Community Centre and Library! with very little space for parking!! Perhaps Bob in his capacity as a member of the Community Council can advise us of what's going on - please.

BIF - other planning application lodged for 28A Promenade - two dewlling houses I believe, this will put them bang in front of the Georgian Cottages - objections have to be submitted before 22nd December.
Same Developer for the Bottom of Bath street edifice - Gregor Homes.

dccairns · Post by **dccairns** » 01 Dec 2004, 23:59

Unfortunately it seems that we are fighting battles on several fronts here and have to be vigilant all the time about ill thought out developments, erosion of open/green space and the removal of people's views, light and privacy. How do we as a community get more of a voice or say about what happens here?

By the way, to keep on-topic, has anyone contacted the Beechgrove yet? It could speed things up and they have certainly done some great community gardesn elsewher.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 02 Dec 2004, 12:29

This thread and the one about the B at the Btm of B Street are crossing over a little!!

Re Gemini's post about Gregor's latest planning application, paulw wrote on the B at the Btm of B Street:

I received a letter yesterday containing a notification on application for planning permission. 'Alter and change use of office and cafe premises to form two flatted dwelling Houses' Submitted for 28 and 28A Promenade by Gregor Properties.

My head hurts!!