New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[seanie]

outside of what? So what appear to be saying that there will be paid access and then the lights will go off!

You have have a point. At least with the existing grass pitches the lights never go off.



Because there are no lights.

D'oh..........

[seanie]

is that your answer to every question you dont feel you can answer?

I think if you're interested in my psychological quirks and personal deficiencies, it should be confined to a separate thread.

[Puerto bella]

I have started a new topic called Rose Colour Spectacles just for you.
I'll start another entitled 'the couch' if you like.

[Puerto bella]

Your psychological quirks are laid out on the pages of this forum for all to read. Just think, if you played your cards close to your chest, told the odd white lie and added a bit of spin you'd perhaps not be thought of as a Ned Flanders type character

[seanie]

Yep...

Because I am widely pitied and despised.







And you're dead popular.

[Puerto bella]

Did I hit a nerve? That's a shame.

[Epykat]

And think what you're saying. Yes, the kids can play football all night in the dark if they like in a public park. Do you really think the Council are going to let them play in the dark on a school pitch where they have responsibility for their safety. They're not allowed to play on school grounds now when the school is closed so what makes you think anything will change? Those pitches will be within school grounds and therefore inaccessible when the school is closed.

So what you're saying is that kids can play on Council owned grass pitches in the dark, but if they're playing on Council owned artificial pitches it suddenly becomes a health and safety impossibility.

Explain.

Also the pitches are designed to be outwith the school grounds, with free public access.

You're bullshitting.

Honestly Sean, you talk such a lot of freaking tosh, I just can't keep up. You obviously are blissfully unaware of the Health & Safety paranoia which has recently swept society. Kids are not allowed to access PHS school grounds when the school is closed. That is not bullshit, it is fact. I am presuming the new Portobello High School will still be a secondary school called....wait for it....Portobello High School, and that the same rules will apply. If they don't apply then it won't be long before they do apply because there will be vandalism necessitating a high perimeter fence - much like the one that surrounds the school now. An open, public park is just what it says on the tin - an open public park that the public have access to. School grounds are school grounds which are not open to the public. The pitches are part of the school.

[seanie]

Did I hit a nerve? That's a shame.

Ned Flanders? I have to confess you nailed it.

Within you're usual degree of perception.

[161617]

its more that I think that all the "discussion" perhaps distracts from holding the council accountable. Have they actually said what the access for the wider community, out of school hours will be. If not should we not be asking them to provide such undertaking.?

[Epykat]

its more that I think that all the "discussion" perhaps distracts from holding the council accountable. Have they actually said what the access for the wider community, out of school hours will be. If not should we not be asking them to provide such undertaking.?

161617 - Seanie and I were both at the same meeting. We heard different things. As far as I'm concerned the pitches will not be free, they will be subject to hiring fees, they will be surrounded by a high perimeter fence and the floodlights will only be on when the pitches are hired out. Sean will tell you something different which is his prerogative.

[seanie]

Sean, you talk such a lot of freaking tosh, I just can't keep up. You obviously are blissfully unaware of the Health & Safety paranoia which has recently swept society. Kids are not allowed to access PHS school grounds when the school is closed. That is not bullshit, it is fact. I am presuming the new Portobello High School will still be a secondary school called....wait for it....Portobello High School, and that the same rules will apply. If they don't apply then it won't be long before they do apply because there will be vandalism necessitating a high perimeter fence - much like the one that surrounds the school now. An open, public park is just what it says on the tin - an open public park that the public have access to. School grounds are school grounds which are not open to the public. The pitches are part of the school.

There are often issues in existing schools to do with security and, admittedly, potential harm. However the proposed pitches are physically separate from the proposed school campus, so the only security and health & safety issues that arise with openly accessible all-weather pitches aren't much different from openly accessible grass pitches.

With public parks, and public grass pitches, the Council have a Health & Safety duty. A switch to public all weather pitches isn't some astonishing step-change. It's pretty much as before, with higher maintenance over the longer run, but with potentially much higher usage.

[seanie]

its more that I think that all the "discussion" perhaps distracts from holding the council accountable. Have they actually said what the access for the wider community, out of school hours will be. If not should we not be asking them to provide such undertaking.?

161617 - Seanie and I were both at the same meeting. We heard different things. As far as I'm concerned the pitches will not be free, they will be subject to hiring fees, they will be surrounded by a high perimeter fence and the floodlights will only be on when the pitches are hired out. Sean will tell you something different which is his prerogative.

I've been to several meetings. During the initial pre-planning consultation there was some uncertainty, but in the final proposals that subsequently went to planning it was clearly stated that the pitches would be freely accessible outwith lets.

[Betty Windsor]

its more that I think that all the "discussion" perhaps distracts from holding the council accountable. Have they actually said what the access for the wider community, out of school hours will be. If not should we not be asking them to provide such undertaking.?

161617 - Seanie and I were both at the same meeting. We heard different things. As far as I'm concerned the pitches will not be free, they will be subject to hiring fees, they will be surrounded by a high perimeter fence and the floodlights will only be on when the pitches are hired out. Sean will tell you something different which is his prerogative.

I've been to several meetings. During the initial pre-planning consultation there was some uncertainty, but in the final proposals that subsequently went to planning it was clearly stated that the pitches would be freely accessible outwith lets.

As always the devil is in the detail. When exactly is that likely to be?

[seanie]

Well it was part of the Planning submission that the pitches would be informally accessible. If PPAG do go on the rampage and torch them, then understandably the Council might have to reconsider.

But that strikes me as very unlikely.

[seanie]

From the planning report;

The outcome of the consultation exercise is available for viewing on the Planning and Building Standards Portal. In summary, the comments expressed influenced a review and amendment of the proposals, as noted below:

...Inclusion of two full size artificial pitches with a 'cat-flap' access for informal community use...

The commitment to informal access was also made very clear at the meetings at the end if the pre-application consultation.

[Epykat]

Yes it does have a name. It would be mighty odd to build a school and not give it a name now wouldn't it?

Not sure when the school was built though or how long the arrangement has been in place.

So, you're not in possession of the 'facts' - you've just plucked that out of the air? What is the school called? Where is it EXACTLY? How long has the arrangement been in place? You can't just say things without substantiating them.

So?

[seanie]

As I said when it was asked if this arrangement worked elsewhere;

So I'm told. Both the architects and the project manager have a lot of experience of school projects and they said it worked well elsewhere.

I have no direct experience of 'cat-flaps' but I'm told they work. And when I talked to my dad about the PHS proposals he said that a school near him had that arrangement and seemed to work fine.

I suppose it's possible that my Dad is part of a City of Edinburgh plot to deceive me into thinking that this sort of arrangement works elsewhere.

But I think it's more plausible that this sort of arrangement does indeed work elsewhere.

[seanie]

From the Pre-Application Consultation Report.

15. Retention of informal community access to new pitches. This was raised a number of times and considered to be an important aspect of compensating for the loss of the existing pitches. Commitment was given to utilise a ‘Cat-flap’ arrangement, as successfully used elsewhere in the city, to enable informal access to the pitches outwith school hours when formal bookings have not been made

[Puerto bella]

Within you're usual degree of perception.

I think you'll find that should be your not you're ie you are.

Perception or well founded based on what I've seen and heard - I'll leave that up to each and every person to take what they want from your posts. I know that you give a lot of people a really good laugh but perhaps not how you intend.

[seanie]

I guess I'm just not blessed with your easy charm and winning personality.

That's just a cross I'll have to bear.

[Bob Jefferson]

I don't know exactly how the public accessibility thing will work, but I don't foresee any major problems. The Powerleague pitches have always been available for kids to use FOC when they are not booked and I'm not aware of any issues that have arisen from this arrangement. As for the question of liability, someone is just as likely to injure themselves playing on Portobello Park at present. With all the dog poo lying around, it's probably much more likely in fact. In any case, I can't see what relevance any of this has to the Judicial Review, which is supposed to be the topic of discussion. Perhaps accessibility to community facilities deserves a thread of its own?

Neither can I see what this character assassination of seanie hopes to achieve. It may be of amusement value to the car-crash voyeurs but it hardly raises the level of debate. Could we try being civil to each other?

[Epykat]

Neither can I see what this character assassination of seanie hopes to achieve. It may be of amusement value to the car-crash voyeurs but it hardly raises the level of debate. Could we try being civil to each other?

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha! Bob, you are priceless

[Porty]

I agree with Bob. Dont understand why the PPAG posse feel the need to personalise the debate. Even seashell, an innocent observer , has endured suspiciom about her "motives".

[Epykat]

I agree with Bob. Dont understand why the PPAG posse feel the need to personalise the debate. Even seashell, an innocent observer , has endured suspiciom about her "motives".

Right, that's it. I give in. I admit defeat. You two really have completely lost all sense of reality. We've obviously been reading different forums for months now. But you have given me the biggest laugh this week.

[Bob Jefferson]

We are obviously looking at the situation from different perspectives but my plea for civility was addressed to all concerned. This whole debate is (hopefully) rapidly drawing to a close but these threads will remain. It has been a contentious issue but pretty soon it will be history and we will all have to find something else to agree or disagree about, at which point former adversaries could become allies and vice versa. In the time that remains, let's try to be nice to each other. Is that too much to ask?

[Porty]

Its not just forums. The PPAG contingent apoear to be able to misread most written media. Not to mention the difficulties with hearing, interpretation and fact absorbal.


Did you mean to say."you cant ju st say things without substantiating " Thats got to be the laugh of the millenium.

[Epykat]

... In the time that remains, let's try to be nice to each other. Is that too much to ask?

Depends how much of a hypocrite you are.

[Bob Jefferson]

I'm sure we all have our grievances but raking over the past doesn't help anyone. To err is human, to forgive divine. Or am I spoiling the fun?

[Porty]

If people cant get on the pitches for free because they are hired out. id call it a result. lots of people enjoying sport in a place that was previously unplayable.

[Epykat]

To err is human, to forgive divine.

To be two faced is not something to aspire to.

[Porty]

Lets the first hire be a WW1 type encounter between PPAG and us. 6 a side. we will have Bob ,Reggie, Seashell and all aboard the skylark in goal.

[Puerto bella]

escuse me - who are you lumping in with PPAG contingent?

[Epykat]

escuse me - who are you lumping in with PPAG contingent?

Em....that'll be you, me, Betty, Scoop....and er.....anybody else who doesn't agree with him. It seems to have escaped Porty's notice that none of us actually have anything to do with PPAG......

[Epykat]

Did you mean to say."you cant ju st say things without substantiating " Thats got to be the laugh of the millenium.

My, my Porty, you really are losing your sense of humour and usual impeccable grasp of sarcasm.

[Bob Jefferson]

To err is human, to forgive divine.

To be two faced is not something to aspire to.

It's not a question of being two faced. It's about respecting each other's viewpoint while reserving the right to disagree, preferably with arguments based upon fact, without resort to personal insult. Maybe we have all gone over the score in the past. All I'm saying is that it doesn't have to continue in that vein. LIfe is short. Do we have to take our differences to the grave with us? Don't worry, I haven't discovered religion. I'm just fed up with the bickering.