New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[161617]

Is that system successful somewhere else?

[seanie]

So I'm told. Both the architects and the project manager have a lot of experience of school projects and they said it worked well elsewhere. Remember this isn't PPP funded, so there shouldn't be the access issues that sometimes arise when access has to be arranged with a third party.

[Betty Windsor]

Is that system successful somewhere else?

I understand it works very well in Japan.

[Scoop]

Broughton High School have all weather pitches, not freely accessible from what i see.

[seanie]

PPP...

[Betty Windsor]

So I'm told. Both the architects and the project manager have a lot of experience of school projects and they said it worked well elsewhere. Remember this isn't PPP funded, so there shouldn't be the access issues that sometimes arise when access has to be arranged with a third party.

So where is that exactly?

[seanie]

I know at least one school in East Kilbride has that arrangement with no problems. Apart from that I can't remember. JM Architects have done scores of secondary schools in Scotland though, and the Project Manager said his kids' school had that arrangement and it worked fine.

[Betty Windsor]

I know at least one school in East Kilbride has that arrangement with no problems. Apart from that I can't remember. JM Architects have done scores of secondary schools in Scotland though, and the Project Manager said his kids' school had that arrangement and it worked fine.

Please tell me more. Does this school have a name? How long has the arrangement been going for?

[seanie]

Yes it does have a name. It would be mighty odd to build a school and not give it a name now wouldn't it?

Not sure when the school was built though or how long the arrangement has been in place.

[Betty Windsor]

So you don't have any actual evidence that it works well just the say so of the architect and the project manager? Have I got that right?

[seanie]

I have no particular cause to doubt them. Why wouldn't it work well?

[Betty Windsor]

I have no particular cause to doubt them. Why wouldn't it work well?

Vandalism is what springs to mind.
I know you personally wouldn't doubt these people but it may surprise you to learn that many of us do. Many of us question the motives of many people involved in this debate.
Seashell in particular fascinates me-she's not from here, her children don't go to school here and yet she wants to see a public park built onto. People never fail to amaze me.

[seanie]

Vandalism?

I'm sure PPAG will be bitterly disappointed when the school gets built, but I don't believe for one minute they'd resort to such destructive revenge.

You're judging them far too harshly.

[Makaveli]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Porty]

I believe the fact the pitches are fenced in may be confusing the issue. At the moment Portobello park has two pitches, they are accessible 24/7. They are accessible to humans, motor bikes , cycles, scooters, cars, dogs, and so on. There's no fence and no cat flap.

The new pitches will be accessible 24/7, (Floodlights go off mid- evening?)the fences will make them more secure and less susceptible to abuse or misuse. Humans will have the same access they do now but will likely use them a factor of 10 of 20 times more, simply because they are better, floodlit, all weather surface and high fencing behind the goals to mimimise the ball going over. In th event the cat flap system is abused or doesn't work. I suppose the council could close it off but that's hardly their fault.

So, its good to know the cat flap system works in East Kilbride but we have dozens of examples, right here in Edinburgh , where people can walk freely onto an open accessible football pitch and play.

Booking System; Porty PArk has a booking system at the moment, maybe they will use the same, i don't know> One thing for sure is that demand will rise. If its done smartly, in the evening we could have new power league type facility with six pitches.
Its true that casual users will not have access when the pitches are booked, exactly how it is at the moment.

[Epykat]

Yes it does have a name. It would be mighty odd to build a school and not give it a name now wouldn't it?

Not sure when the school was built though or how long the arrangement has been in place.

So, you're not in possession of the 'facts' - you've just plucked that out of the air? What is the school called? Where is it EXACTLY? How long has the arrangement been in place? You can't just say things without substantiating them.

[Epykat]

Vandalism?

It may surprise you to know Seanie that the current school was losing so much money due to vandalism about 9 years ago that they had to spend at substantial amount to have a fence with locked gates put around the whole perimeter of the school grounds which are locked when the school is closed. I didn't make that up.

[Porty]

You surprised Seanie?

[Puerto bella]

Yes it does have a name. It would be mighty odd to build a school and not give it a name now wouldn't it?

Not sure when the school was built though or how long the arrangement has been in place.

So, you're not in possession of the 'facts' - you've just plucked that out of the air? What is the school called? Where is it EXACTLY? How long has the arrangement been in place? You can't just say things without substantiating them.

[Epykat]

One thing for sure is that demand will rise. If its done smartly, in the evening we could have new power league type facility with six pitches.

Six pitches? So....the Council, kind people that they are, are just going to provide free, floodlit pitches 24/7 are they? Don't think so. Therefore, the local kids won't be playing on a floodlit pitches til their wee hearts are content, they'll be playing in the dark, because there obviously won't be anybody overseeing it because the Council won't pay the janitors to man it which would be overtime, which is bound to contravene some health and safety law of some sort, or the kids will have to save up their hard earned pocket money for weeks and weeks to afford to hire a pitch which will, of course be out of their league (pardon the pun). There will also be the odd unicorn and bunny rabbit thrown in for good measure. Dream on.

[seanie]

Yes it does have a name. It would be mighty odd to build a school and not give it a name now wouldn't it?

Not sure when the school was built though or how long the arrangement has been in place.

So, you're not in possession of the 'facts' - you've just plucked that out of the air? What is the school called? Where is it EXACTLY? How long has the arrangement been in place? You can't just say things without substantiating them.

I hadn't previously realised that when the school was built was of such vital importance, or how long the open access arrangements had been in place. It's just a school near where my mum & dad live, and when I talked to my dad about the PHS proposals he said they had that arrangement. Beyond that I don't know much.

In any event it's not like I'm making something up that's blatantly untrue, like your claim that the new high school is open plan.

[Puerto bella]

I'm telling......

[Epykat]

I hadn't previously realised that when the school was built was of such vital importance, or how long the open access arrangements had been in place. It's just a school near where my mum & dad live, and when I talked to my dad about the PHS proposals he said they had that arrangement. Beyond that I don't know much.

In any event it's not like I'm making something up that's blatantly untrue, like your claim that the new high school is open plan.

But how do we know it's NOT blatantly untrue? After all, you are a stickler for the 'facts' - they're insisted upon at all times, so I don't think I'm being unfair by asking you to provide them. I'm sure you can cut and paste them from somewhere.

[161617]

has the council actually said that they will allow "free" access to these pitches or will people have to pay.

[seanie]

One thing for sure is that demand will rise. If its done smartly, in the evening we could have new power league type facility with six pitches.

Six pitches? So....the Council, kind people that they are, are just going to provide free, floodlit pitches 24/7 are they? Don't think so. Therefore, the local kids won't be playing on a floodlit pitches til their wee hearts are content, they'll be playing in the dark, because there obviously won't be anybody overseeing it because the Council won't pay the janitors to man it which would be overtime, which is bound to contravene some health and safety law of some sort, or the kids will have to save up their hard earned pocket money for weeks and weeks to afford to hire a pitch which will, of course be out of their league (pardon the pun). There will also be the odd unicorn and bunny rabbit thrown in for good measure. Dream on.

Free floodlit pitches 24/7? No.

There's a plannIng condition that the floodlights be switched off at no later than 22:00 to protect the amenity if neighbours. And take a second to think about what you're saying.

Currently the local kids have open access to pretty crappy grass pitches that aren't floodlit; so when it get's dark they have to play in the dark.

In future they'll have the same access to far better pitches, that can be used till later because they have timed floodlights.

[Epykat]

has the council actually said that they will allow "free" access to these pitches or will people have to pay.

The pitches won't be free, they'll be hired out at Council rates the same as the pool and they won't be floodlit when the school is closed.

[seanie]

has the council actually said that they will allow "free" access to these pitches or will people have to pay.

Yes, they've said "free" access.

[Epykat]

One thing for sure is that demand will rise. If its done smartly, in the evening we could have new power league type facility with six pitches.

Six pitches? So....the Council, kind people that they are, are just going to provide free, floodlit pitches 24/7 are they? Don't think so. Therefore, the local kids won't be playing on a floodlit pitches til their wee hearts are content, they'll be playing in the dark, because there obviously won't be anybody overseeing it because the Council won't pay the janitors to man it which would be overtime, which is bound to contravene some health and safety law of some sort, or the kids will have to save up their hard earned pocket money for weeks and weeks to afford to hire a pitch which will, of course be out of their league (pardon the pun). There will also be the odd unicorn and bunny rabbit thrown in for good measure. Dream on.

Free floodlit pitches 24/7? No.

There's a plannIng condition that the floodlights be switched off at no later than 22:00 to protect the amenity if neighbours. And take a second to think about what you're saying.

Currently the local kids have open access to pretty crappy grass pitches that aren't floodlit; so when it get's dark they have to play in the dark.

In future they'll have the same access to far better pitches, that can be used till later because they have timed floodlights.

And think what you're saying. Yes, the kids can play football all night in the dark if they like in a public park. Do you really think the Council are going to let them play in the dark on a school pitch where they have responsibility for their safety. They're not allowed to play on school grounds now when the school is closed so what makes you think anything will change? Those pitches will be within school grounds and therefore inaccessible when the school is closed.

[seanie]

has the council actually said that they will allow "free" access to these pitches or will people have to pay.

The pitches won't be free, they'll be hired out at Council rates the same as the pool and they won't be floodlit when the school is closed.

The pitches will be bookable for a fee, but outside of that the Council has committed to free access.

[161617]

outside of what? So what appear to be saying that there will be paid access and then the lights will go off!

[Epykat]

has the council actually said that they will allow "free" access to these pitches or will people have to pay.

The pitches won't be free, they'll be hired out at Council rates the same as the pool and they won't be floodlit when the school is closed.

The pitches will be bookable for a fee, but outside of that the Council has committed to free access.

So you're telling us that, say, the swimming pool at the current school is bookable for a fee, but outside of that the Council let anybody in for free? They don't. Or that the all weather pitch at the current school is freely accessible by local kids to play on for nothing when the school is closed. They're not. Why do you think that suddenly the Council will become the fairly godmother of local children just because they've got two, new, highly expensive football pitches, and suddenly open their generous arms to embrace all the little footballers of the Christians? Because they say they will?

[Puerto bella]

Regardless of the school, I am interested in why Sean has such faith in an organisation almost to a point I would call blinkered faith?
Is it for the same reason you could not conceive that people play their cards close to their chest or such things as spin, tactics and gameplay exist. I thought you were a grown up or at least enlightened a bit about development matters.

[seanie]

And think what you're saying. Yes, the kids can play football all night in the dark if they like in a public park. Do you really think the Council are going to let them play in the dark on a school pitch where they have responsibility for their safety. They're not allowed to play on school grounds now when the school is closed so what makes you think anything will change? Those pitches will be within school grounds and therefore inaccessible when the school is closed.

So what you're saying is that kids can play on Council owned grass pitches in the dark, but if they're playing on Council owned artificial pitches it suddenly becomes a health and safety impossibility.

Explain.

Also the pitches are designed to be outwith the school grounds, with free public access.

You're bullshitting.

[seanie]

Regardless of the school, I am interested in why Sean has such faith in an organisation almost to a point I would call blinkered faith?
Is it for the same reason you could not conceive that people play their cards close to their chest or such things as spin, tactics and gameplay exist. I thought you were a grown up or at least enlightened a bit about development matters.

Then maybe you should start a thread exploring that topic.

[Puerto bella]

is that your answer to every question you dont feel you can answer?