Cycling on the Promenade

[Franck]

I thought cycling on the prom was now officially allowed? surely the signs should now be removed instead of changed?

See here Franck

Shared Path Signage.pdf

The vexed question of Cycling on Portobello Promenade is with us again. Away back in 1997, Portobello Community Council, with the support of Lothian Health, did a consultation on this and produced a document 'Promoting Cycling in Portobello' led by Lesley Reid. This exercise was undertaken in response to a very heated local public meeting on the topic. At that time, cycling on the Promenade was illegal. This study established - by and large - that careful adult cyclists and children, learning to cycle safely and going to school, might be tolerated. It has now been established that cycling is permitted on the Promenade in Portobello, I believe this is as a consequence of recent change in the law on access (although I am checking this). Under the current legislation, the Promenade becomes a shared pedestrian and cycle path. This change - IF accepted as inevitable - may well be contentious for local people. The cycling lobby group SPOKES are in support of this change. They have suggested that it would be helpful to put up signs saying something like 'Careful Cyclists Welcome' , which would be in line with the current law. I attach a mock up of what kind of sign might be put up instead of the current 'No Cycling' signs. If if you have any thoughts or comments, please let me know. The whole question is due to be discussed by Portobello Community Council at its 26 September Meeting.

And here:

Taking of cycling, quite a few people asked about the legal basis for allowing cycling on the Prom and I have attached a briefing one from the Council's legal team, which formed the basis of an internal Council officer discussion on the matter in June. This will be a topic for discussion and debate by Portobello Community Council in September.

Portobello Prom - Access Rights for Cyclists on Core Paths.doc

And there is more info on the Local Updates forum.

Essentially the red signs need replaced with blue ones - what's to discuss? Well I imagine it'll have very little to do with the signs and more to do with cycling on the Prom in general...

Thanks for the reply.I appreciate that cycling on the prom is a hot potato for some reason.I've cycled there since I went to school (not yesterday!) and I've never once caused or witnessed an accident caused by careless cycling and I've never once been challenged that my cycling is illegal.I cycle from the dog and cat home to tower place everyday ( and vice versa) and I really cannot see where the issue is, but I'm sure this has all been covered elsewhere.

I'd love to come along to CC meeting once, but they always seem to be on Mondays, which makes it impossible for me...and if the topic turned into a debate over the merits of cycling, I hope the chair is robust enough to curtail such vapid chit chat

One last thing, what relevance it there in making the sign blue?I might need to brush up on my highway code, because a blue sign would just confuse me even more (I've always been aware that my cycling activity was law-breaking, new fangled unneccesary signage will compound my befuddled state)
Just remove them altogether and put up a 'the prom welcomes considerate cyclists' sign instead.

[Peter Bradley]

is there any reason they cant just stick up a safe speed limit - say 10mph?

[seanie]

Cycling wasn't illegal anyway according to the police. And the Council's legal advice on the current situation seems to suggest the police were right all along.

[Franck]

is there any reason they cant just stick up a safe speed limit - say 10mph?

I have no idea how fast I cycle, being able to tell when I'm going 10mph would be impossible...unless the cooncil give me a speedo!

[Franck]

I picked up on this from Maureen Childs report-

Cycling on Eastfield Pavement
I have been visiting residents in Seaview Terrace and Eastfield recently with our MP, Sheila Gilmore and picking up things that concern them. One worry is that some commuting cyclists continue to use the pavement and speed past people’s gates putting residents and visitors in fear of their lives – very much as they do on the Promenade. Despite the fact there are now clear ‘no cycling on the footway’ signs there, some cyclists seem totally oblivious to them. I have had discussions with Council officers about how we could improve the situation, through better signage and policing in the mean time, but ultimately – I hope - a dedicated on-road cycleway. This must not interfere with on-street parking on Eastfield since most residents have nowhere else to park but in the road in front.

Ignoring the hyperbole of speeding cyclists and residents being in fear of their lives, I have a 6 year old son who has swimming lessons at the quayside every Sunday, he likes to cycle along from Portobello and is a pretty confident cyclist, but probably not confident to cycle on a main road like Seaview Terrace/Eastfield.What's the situation with that I wonder?Should he use the road/ignore the signage/go in the car?

I think sensible cycling should be allowed anywhere, especially for nippers.

[wangi]

I normally cycle at 10-12mph on the Prom; going much slower as circumstances dictate. Last night cycling back from the PCC meeting I attempted to get 30mph (as was implied folk were cycling at) and topped out just above 20mph (note deserted Prom, wide section @ Community Gardens - was still safe!)...

[Franck]

I normally cycle at 10-12mph on the Prom; going much slower as circumstances dictate. Last night cycling back from the PCC meeting I attempted to get 30mph (as was implied folk were cycling at) and topped out just above 20mph (note deserted Prom, wide section @ Community Gardens - was still safe!)...

To suggest that people cycle at 30mph along the prom is daft.Mark Cavendish just became a world champion in cycling, The GB team of 8 top class cyclists averaged a speed of 55kph, or 34mph.And even though some of portobellos cyclist sport ill-fitting lycra and try to emulate these lads, very very few will.

[Pal of Porty]

I have lived on Seaview Terrace for 15 years, cycle every day and have yet to see anyone cycle on the pavement on the side that the houses are. Further along the road by Eastfield there are numerous cyclists that use the pavement but almost all seem to be families, who like Franck, are taking their young kids to Musselburgh etc and quite rightly want to avoid the road at that busy section. I have done the same many times with my kids. Most of the people I have seen using the pavement are doing so with due respect to others and all the speedsters seem to use the road at that part. Certainly not an ideal situation tho!

[seanie]

I think that this (percieved?) change does bring potential benefits in that the Council are looking at ways to make the mix of pedestrians and cyclists safer. Given that there was already plenty of cycling on the Prom, some engineering to improve visibilty and reduce the risk of collisions, coupled with improved signage to encourage considerate behaviour, and we could end up with a safer arrangement than the one we've had up till now.

[Epykat]

Cycling wasn't illegal anyway according to the police. And the Council's legal advice on the current situation seems to suggest the police were right all along.

Are you saying there that the Council were given duff legal advice?

[Franck]

Cycling wasn't illegal anyway according to the police. And the Council's legal advice on the current situation seems to suggest the police were right all along.

Are you saying there that the Council were given duff legal advice?

Classic!

[seanie]

When it comes to cycling on the Prom I think they've been relying on in-house advice, rather than the expense of QCs.

[Epykat]

When it comes to cycling on the Prom I think they've been relying on in-house advice, rather than the expense of QCs.

Or the ignorance of the public maybe? You just can't be up to them this Council lot can you?

[seanie]

Up till recently the Council have taken the view that, as a Roads Authority, they had the power to ban cycling on the Prom, a position that seems to have had not insignificant public support. Even at the PCC meeting one cyclist said he would've preferred the existing signs to remain as, although he cycled on the Prom, he thought the presumption against encouraged more careful cycling. However, the Police have consistently said that as far as they were concerned cycling (responsibly) was legal. Whatever the situation actually was, there's now no doubt it's legal due to the Core Path designation. The Council appear to be responding to that in a sensible way that could improve the current situation.

[Puerto bella]

Epy - you're a minx but we love you.... and Sean - the council pay well for spin doctors, you should really be on a retainer or at least invoice them for all the good work you've done.

[seanie]

I go back to my previous point.

There already was cycling on the Prom so it's not clear how much deterrent effect the cycling ban had. Maybe there will be an increase in cycling or a change in cycling behaviour (I'd be surprised if it was significant though).

One thing that is pretty certain however, is that the Council would never have authorised expenditure to improve the safety of cycling on the Prom whilst they still considered cycling to be illegal. But because they see it as a change in circumstances they are now proposing to do just that, by introducing barriers at specific junctions, re-positioning bollards, introducing drop kerbs etc. coupled with new signage.

I know there are strong views on this subject, but we could end up with a safer situation than before.

[Puerto bella]

As part of the community council's research I would recommend they look at the Gehl Architects web site and inform themselves on how other places address cycling in their communities. There's no need to start from a negative position focusing on conflict or try to re-invent the wheel. You will find some of Jan Gehl and David Sim's lectures on you tube which you will find of interest - esepcially the work they have done in New York and you couldn't get a more extreme traffic/ ped/ cycling conflict scenario than Broadway or 5th Avenue - the Prom pales in comparison. Good luck.

[Maria]

Entertaining wee clip about New York cycle lanes, also on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... zE-IMaegzQ

[Puerto bella]

Wonderful

[seanie]

The proposals the City Council come up
with will be subject to further public consultation, and I'm sure organisations like SPOKES will be keen to contribute amongst others.

[Bazza]

Allowing cycling on the Prom is great, but what Porty really lacks is safe and easy access into town by bike. Fishwives causeway gets you a wee bit of the way, but then you're on your own.

I'm a confident cyclist, and I've always cycled on city streets. But if you're just starting out, there's no easy route into town.

[Pal of Porty]

I usually go the long way round by going up Brustane Road then picking up the cycle path at Big W through to St Leonard's police station - must admit to it being a bit hairy going down the bridges to St Andrew Square though!

[regent]

I hope they put up up a sign saying that dog owners with 20 feet, almost invisible dog leads, will have to donate a week's wages to PPAG

Or should it be that ppag have to donate wages to dog owners who use park!

[wangi]

Finalised versions of the replacement signs are due to be presented to the Community Council at the end of this month. The signs should then be put up within 1-2 months and the old ones taken down at the same time. So hopefully by April/May time.

From CityCyclingEdinburgh.

[Porty]

Tuesday 29/05 Jeremy Vine at Noon- there's a package on promendade cycling across the UK.

[urchaidh]

Google maps in the UK has now been updated with 'cycle trails', 'dedicated lanes'* and 'friendly roads'. You can view this from the wee menu box on the top right of a map or you can select cycling as an option when asking for directions.

The coverage around porty is OK, but patchy, and I'd question a few of the cycle friendly roads. The big omission is the prom, if anyone else feels like rattling Google cage you can report it from the link at the bottom right. The Christians path is missing from the map altogether.

* a.k.a. car parking

[wangi]

Surprise today. Finally the no-cycling signs were taken down, and cycling signs put up on Portobello Prom. The standard issue ones look great, but the consultation driven "code of conduct" ones are of no use. They are completely unreadable and just server to clutter and confuse!


(click for larger)

[Pal of Porty]

Yahoo....Now I can go really fast.

[fresian]

"Finalised versions of the replacement signs are due to be presented to the "Community Council" at the end of this month.". So they've put them up early, perhaps a cynical ploy to get them in before "Portobello Against New Signs"(PANS) appoint their spokeswoman.

[wangi]

Nah, they're very very late...

[seashell]

"Finalised versions of the replacement signs are due to be presented to the "Community Council" at the end of this month.". So they've put them up early, perhaps a cynical ploy to get them in before "Portobello Against New Signs"(PANS) appoint their spokeswoman.

then again, we already have a media-hungry and self-appointed Portobello spokeswoman (SAP) who positively leaps at any opportunity to get herself into the papers

[Peter Bradley]

Hey PoP - I've seen you cycling and I doubt you can break the speed limit!! (OK maybe downhill!!)


I love cycling
That said everyone - this is NOT a license for cyclists to hammer it along the prom - if you want to go fast hit the road - otherwise stick to 10mph or lower .....it's all about sharing the space

if I see cyclists screaming along the prom and endangering children then they should expect to land on the beach - the same goes for dog walkers with out of control 50m extendable leads!!!

[Pal of Porty]

Hey PoP - I've seen you cycling and I doubt you can break the speed limit!! (OK maybe downhill!!)

Steady on there Mr Bradley! I admit I have slowed down a bit since my pal Lance stopped giving me his home brew health drinks but I am still burning the rubber with a stong wind at my back and a downhill slope ahead.