New Portobello High School - PPAG win legal appeal

[Pal of Porty]

It was the will of the community to build PHS on Portobello Park and yet again we find the finer intricacies of the law in this country supporting another small band of NIMBY's on yet another cause. The fact that on this occasion the NIMBY's cause was based on totally selfish reasons makes no difference - the law has made it's judgement and this particular one reads like the school will definitely not be getting built in the Park. The decision leaves the horrendously difficult task of finding an alternative suitable site while the current building continues to suck money from the Council coffers just to stay in a safe state. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the law it really is a disastrous decision for the staff and pupils for possibly a generation to come.

[wangi]

Word is reporters from STV, Evening News (+others?) are planning to be at Portobello High School around 3:30pm today looking for reaction to this news...

[lg1726]

Be interesting to see if anyone from PPAG is there to defend their actions in light of the overwhelming reaction to this news!!

[AndyB]

Be interesting to see if anyone from PPAG is there to defend their actions in light of the overwhelming reaction to this news!!

I doubt it. They claimed that they didn't have anyone at the Community Council meeting on the issue becasue they would have felt intimidated.

I can't even bring myself to look at their facebook page.

[gillian]

Oh, I'm sure they will feel able to defend their actions. Don't forget Ig they are doing all of this for our own good, common good, and for the good of Scotland. Wee Champions that they are.

[Makaveli]

Shocked and disgusted by this. I pity folk that have kids at PHS or are about to start there. Time to oust the NIMBY's from power!!!

[lg1726]

Oh, I'm sure they will feel able to defend their actions. Don't forget Ig they are doing all of this for our own good, common good, and for the good of Scotland. Wee Champions that they are.

Ah, but of course, I completely forgot that it was in all our own good that the views from their windows should remain unchanged - how remiss of me!!

[AndyB]

Do any of the main people against using the park for the new school, whoever they are, have any kids going to PHS? I'm just trying to figure out if it is down to pure NIMBY or do they have a real love for this park that is never actually used by anyone.

Does anyone have a list of possible alternatives as I can't think of any suitable alternatives in the area?

[lg1726]

Do any of the main people against using the park for the new school, whoever they are, have any kids going to PHS? I'm just trying to figure out if it is down to pure NIMBY or do they have a real love for this park that is never actually used by anyone.

I'm sure that there are others with greater engagement than me on this issue who will be able to give you more detailed info, but i seem to recall a map which plotted the postcodes of those opposed to the school in the park and almost without exception they came from the streets directly overlooking the park, or in those streets directly adjacent to them. Now whilst that does not answer your query about the place of education of their kids, it does rather suggest a considerable degree of NIMBYism. In addition, and again there are other better informed on this, but I also recall at the time of proposed sites, the PPAG lot suggested that the Figgate Park was a suitable alternative and I also remember more recently Bingham Park being suggested, which does rather call into question their supposed position regarding protecting green space!

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions form that!

[tom nimmo]

I have watched this debate from a distance since it began and I have to say that I am actually stunned that the school is not going ahead. I am a fan of Portobello Park as it is and I like walking my dog round it and I like the views down to the sea from Milton Road, however, I have also grown to realise that there needs to be a new school and Portobello Park is the 'least worst' option for its location. My three children were educated at the school and I feel desperately sorry for the primary age children of the local area and the pupils who just began their time at the High School in August as they are the ones who will suffer in the long-term. I watched Holyrood being improved and the space and facilities available to the pupils are first class. I also watched what became possible when Tynecastle school was replaced. An urban school with its own all-weather playing fields. Just imagine what Portobello could do with the footprint it was getting. This is such a step back for Portobello as a community and, as I have very good friends on both sides of the debate, I genuinely fear that the polarisation which will inevitably come from this will take away a huge part of the community spirit and goodwill to each other that makes Portobello the place that people want to be part of. Such a sad outcome for the vast majority of Portobello people.

[Snow White]

Agreed Tom. There are no winners in this situation. The effects of this will be felt for generations to come. Good schools are major factor in deciding where to live. My guess is that this will influence many families considering a move to the area. And who can blame them? A very small but toxic group determined to have their way in so many community matters spoil it for everyone.

[AndyB]

I have watched this debate from a distance since it began and I have to say that I am actually stunned that the school is not going ahead. I am a fan of Portobello Park as it is and I like walking my dog round it and I like the views down to the sea from Milton Road, however, I have also grown to realise that there needs to be a new school and Portobello Park is the 'least worst' option for its location. My three children were educated at the school and I feel desperately sorry for the primary age children of the local area and the pupils who just began their time at the High School in August as they are the ones who will suffer in the long-term. I watched Holyrood being improved and the space and facilities available to the pupils are first class. I also watched what became possible when Tynecastle school was replaced. An urban school with its own all-weather playing fields. Just imagine what Portobello could do with the footprint it was getting. This is such a step back for Portobello as a community and, as I have very good friends on both sides of the debate, I genuinely fear that the polarisation which will inevitably come from this will take away a huge part of the community spirit and goodwill to each other that makes Portobello the place that people want to be part of. Such a sad outcome for the vast majority of Portobello people.

Well said Community spirt will take years to recover from this and I feel that the minority will feel the effects.
If it's true that a group of PPAG gathered in the park an hour or so ago to pat each other on the back is true then that will be the busiest the park has been for years.

[Porty]

Well said Tom Nimmo.

I genuinely fear that the polarisation which will inevitably come from this will take away a huge part of the community spirit and goodwill to each other that makes Portobello the place that people want to be part of. Such a sad outcome for the vast majority of Portobello people.

There's a reasonable chance that this could galvanise community spirit and promote goodwill amongst the vast majority of Portobello people.

[Mark Cameron]

I agree Porty.

The usual suspects aren't going to be seen in a good light by the majority after this.

I really hope Positive Porty will prevail.

[portygeoff]

Well said Tom Nimmo.

I genuinely fear that the polarisation which will inevitably come from this will take away a huge part of the community spirit and goodwill to each other that makes Portobello the place that people want to be part of. Such a sad outcome for the vast majority of Portobello people.

There's a reasonable chance that this could galvanise community spirit and promote goodwill amongst the vast majority of Portobello people.

There is a community spirit still with the vast majority of Porty residents but that does not include a small group of unrepresentative people who have burnt their bridges in this community. I for one will not forget the damage they have done to the education of Porty youth.

[PortySeahawks]

Extremely disappointed with this outcome. Having just drove past Portobello Park I can tell you there was no-one out in it.

PPAG have really handed a severe loss to the children of Portobello. This NIMBY approach to a new school building that would have also provided new community sports pitches and a swimming pool is extremely disappointing. There is deep irony that they protected their house prices using the argument of the "common good". I find it all extremely shameful. A law that is over 100 years old should not stop us from developing a structure for 21st century education for the 1400+ pupils of Portobello. I do wonder had this been a private school being built, would we have seen the same resistance?

The council and the previous administration do have a lot to answer for. Who's advise was sought in order to give off this premature positivity regarding the court's decision. The timeline of events attached to the report makes for some interesting reading. How could they not have been more clued up on this, especially after denying the FOI requests. This mishandling and ill-informed management of the situation has no doubt added to the catastrophe we now have before us. I understand it we are now truly back to square one, it is going to be very interesting to hear what comes out from the City Chambers over the next few days - we better at least hear something! How much money has been spent/lost due to this incompetence?

What can now be done locally? Does anyone have any confidence in the PCC anymore, I sure don't. A vote of no confidence, as mentioned earlier, appeals to me. There is no doubt there is an overwhelming majority of our community who want a new school, believe we need a school and agree with the immediacy of a new school.

As someone who has not too long ago left Porty HS, when bits of the building were literally falling off the side, I cannot believe the children of Portobello will have to suffer this inept building for more years to come. I also feel for the fantastic teachers at Portobello who have to work within these conditions where other schools in Edinburgh have now been upgraded and rebuilt to ensure 21st century education is taught in a 21st century environment.

[Maria]

I feel sick. I fear both Portobello High and St John's will now be passed over. Money earmarked for these two schools will now be spent elsewhere in the city. Where is the justice in that?

[tufty]

I'm with you Marya. I feel let down by a system that is supposed to protect the public. There is saving green space and saving a view/ house prices. I'll never believe it was about green park land after suggestions of using other parks.
I hope there is an alternative plan, not Big W or decant, but I fear that education will now suffer for sure.

[Chas]

So, what alternative solutions are there? The second choice of re-locating St Johns and using the enlarged site for a re-build looks unlikely now with the primary wanting to remain where they are; and the existing site is said to be too small under current legislation (or is it just a recommendation?) for a school the size Porty needs, so the third choice is out too.

This may be a crazy idea, but we need to start thinking out the box. Is the new Holy Rood building big enough to house Porty High (possibly with an extension?); and is the existing PHS site big enough to build another new Holy Rood? Then the Catholic primary and secondary would be together on one site. I suspect someone will be quick enough to tell me if it's already been looked at! Of course PHS would have to decant for x years to achieve this but Castlebrae has suddenly become vacant…

[wangi]

http://www.facebook.com/new.phs.park/po ... 1497952010

Our children have been betrayed, their education sacrificed for the selfish ends of a small minority of our community and those responsible will NEVER be forgiven. They can kid themselves that this is about preserving green space but we are not fooled for one moment. If the Council had wanted to sell the site to Tesco's then we would have all stood together to oppose it, but this was a school for our children. What on earth could be considered to be more 'in the common good'?

Let's get real. There is no Plan B because there is no other suitable site. We have known that from the beginning. You can't just magic one up. The Council must now appeal this decision or the law must be changed to give the Council the powers it requires. We have always said that preserving green space is a noble aspiration but it is not and must not be an end in itself. Sometimes, as on this occasion, there are over-riding reasons and ample justification for sacrificing a little-used, poor quality green space for the greater benefit of the community. If the law doesn't recognise this then the law must change.

We will not accept defeat. This is a travesty of justice and a mockery of democracy. Our children will not be decanted for 2 years. Their education will not be compromised. We will not accept another tower block school without its own playing fields. Our children deserve better than this and as their guardians we must not fail them. We will not let them down. This is far from over.

[eaveyard]

"I suspect someone will be quick enough to tell me if it's already been looked at! Of course PHS would have to decant for x years to achieve this but Castlebrae has suddenly become vacant…"

Unfortunately I've been involved in this long enough to remember Roy Jobson declaring that PHS would be decanted over his dead body. He explained in detail how a decant in Manchester he had been involved in virtually decimated a large school down there. This is not what we want for our community or our school.

[wangi]

Another interesting blog post from Andy Wightman on this: http://www.andywightman.com/?p=1574

The fallout from the Portobello Park decision (see previous post) has got me thinking. For a long time I, along with others, have been working to secure better protection for common good land and property in Scotland. This has mostly involved working with communities in small towns in Scotland to defend their interests against remote and distant decision making in a faraway place where the Council HQ is based. This work brought me into contact with those in Portobello who have been campaigning against building a school in Portobello Park. I first met them at a public meeting in Cupar in April 2006 and agreed to provide advice and assistance as I do to all who are concerned with common good matters. I consciously do not take sides in local disputes but the Portobello Park is different.

Virtually all the cases I have been involved in concern a local community that wishes to decide for itself how common good land should be managed and used. This is hardly revolutionary since this is the land that they once held title to and manage before the Town Councils were abolished in May 1975. Portobello, however, is the first instance where the community and the Council all appear to be agreed that a school should be built on the park and the ones seeking to defend the common good land are in the minority. Their tenacity in this case has provided a very useful clarification of common good law but at a huge price to community cohesion and the future of children and their education in Portobello. In short, I find myself welcoming the legal decision because it clarifies the law but at the same time lamenting the outcome because I believe that this is a good site for a new school.

...

Meanwhile there are solutions available. A private Act of Parliament seems the best option and was the means by which the National Galleries of Scotland obtained a small part of Princes Street Gardens to build a new cafe. This would take a year or two to achieve. Alternatively there are legal appeals available to the Supreme Court possibly on the grounds raised by Neil King.

...

UPDATE OR (and here’s a thought), the Council could go to the Sheriff Court to seek authority to dispose of the land to a third party (say the Portobello Education Foundation). Remember, the law states that it cannot USE the land for another purpose while it remains in its ownership but it can (if approved by the Courts) sell the land. If this is successful the Council then takes out a 175 year lease of the land and builds the school.

Click the link to read it all

[seanie]

This may be a crazy idea, but we need to start thinking out the box. Is the new Holy Rood building big enough to house Porty High (possibly with an extension?); and is the existing PHS site big enough to build another new Holy Rood?

No.

[lg1726]

Can someone answer something for me? I was thinking about this at 4am when awake!

If as the original deeds suggest the council paid £25k for the land in 1898 and if the court ruling of yesterday says that the council cannot appropriate the land, can it sell it? If so, I will find the £25k buy the park, but it give it back to the council for the express purpose of building a school and on completion, sell the land back to them for £25k! Joking aside, can they sell? If not to a consortium of porty parents, then to developers etc?!

[Chas]

This may be a crazy idea, but we need to start thinking out the box. Is the new Holy Rood building big enough to house Porty High (possibly with an extension?); and is the existing PHS site big enough to build another new Holy Rood?

No.

OK. Just thought I'd suggest it…

[Mark Cameron]

If Andy Wightman's statement is correct -

"...(and here’s a thought), the Council could go to the Sheriff Court to seek authority to dispose of the land to a third party (say the Portobello Education Foundation). Remember, the law states that it cannot USE the land for another purpose while it remains in its ownership but it can (if approved by the Courts) sell the land. If this is successful the Council then takes out a 175 year lease of the land and builds the school."

This seems like a route we should urgently be pusuing.

Does anyone have any idea whether this is a feasible option? I've emailed Maureen Child to see if she knows whether it's being considered.

[Chas]

If Andy Wightman's statement is correct -

"...(and here’s a thought), the Council could go to the Sheriff Court to seek authority to dispose of the land to a third party (say the Portobello Education Foundation). Remember, the law states that it cannot USE the land for another purpose while it remains in its ownership but it can (if approved by the Courts) sell the land. If this is successful the Council then takes out a 175 year lease of the land and builds the school."

This seems like a route we should urgently be pusuing.

Does anyone have any idea whether this is a feasible option? I've emailed Maureen Child to see if she knows whether it's being considered.

On their past record, I wouldn't want to trust CES's legal opinion that this would be possible. And someone would mount a campaign to challenge it anyway…

[gillian]

Surely we now have to believe that Maureen,Mike Bridgeman, the council, Kenny Macaskill, the lawyers etc etc are pursuing all possible avenues. Today must be a day of high priority meetings, consultations etc. Surely??

[fresian]

Given that this is common land, and the fact that it appears that the council has had its teeth removed, should we be encouraging Gypsies to camp on it. Apparently the Police (APCOS) guidance is that they can be moved on if it can be shown that their presence is depriving others of the amenity, however, "The fact that other sections of the community are being deprived of the amenities must be evident before action is taken."

Doubt the council will be too bothered about moving them on under the circumstances.

[Franck]

This may be a crazy idea, but we need to start thinking out the box. Is the new Holy Rood building big enough to house Porty High (possibly with an extension?); and is the existing PHS site big enough to build another new Holy Rood? Then the Catholic primary and secondary would be together on one site. I suspect someone will be quick enough to tell me if it's already been looked at! Of course PHS would have to decant for x years to achieve this but Castlebrae has suddenly become vacant…

Correct.

Leave Holyrood out of this, we've done nowt wrong!

[Doris]

"...(and here’s a thought), the Council could go to the Sheriff Court to seek authority to dispose of the land to a third party (say the Portobello Education Foundation). Remember, the law states that it cannot USE the land for another purpose while it remains in its ownership but it can (if approved by the Courts) sell the land. If this is successful the Council then takes out a 175 year lease of the land and builds the school."

This would be a positive move and one that the community could get behind. Encouraging our councillors and Kenny MacAskill to look into this option would be the first step. Let's go!

[Porty]

Can someone answer something for me? I was thinking about this at 4am when awake!

If as the original deeds suggest the council paid £25k for the land in 1898 and if the court ruling of yesterday says that the council cannot appropriate the land, can it sell it? If so, I will find the £25k buy the park, but it give it back to the council for the express purpose of building a school and on completion, sell the land back to them for £25k! Joking aside, can they sell? If not to a consortium of porty parents, then to developers etc?!

Sarah Wolf, our QC, did say in court that if LAdy Dorrian were to find against the council that a very similar strategy to the one you suggest could be deployed. We are now in he hands of super legal brains.

Kenny MacKaskill has to get his finger out and take some action to get this situation resolved.

[lg1726]

OK, so it seems that all this answers my 4am conundrum about if the land could be sold and seems to suggest that it can! So, surely the next step would be to lobby all elected members to this end and to push for this as a viable alternative position. Kenny MacAskill has already said that he will back any action and as Cabinet Secretary for Justice, that is a very strong ally in any legal process. There is no doubt that the same lot will oppose this action, but I rather suspect that the support for any challenge they mount would be slim and after all, if not to build a school, then they could sell to a developer to build flat/houses and I for one would put my inherent principles to one side and not oppose such a proposition! As my late granny would have said - "hell mend them"!

[fresian]

Normally I too would oppose such a move if it was for the commercial gain of a developer, but I would also support such a move in this instance.

[Mark Cameron]

How many Porty parents have voiced a desire to have a joint Portobello/Castlebrae school in Craigmillar as reported here? Can't say I've heard any.

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-eveni ... -1-2523528