New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Porty]

This is deranged. Are the core of PPAG all clinically insane?

I don't know what the definition of clinically insane is but there appears to be evidence of sociopathic, narcissism at the core of the group. Must be a cause for concern for anyone that cares.

[Porty]

What sort of behaviour?

nudging one another, exchanging incredulous looks, silent guffaws etc. Terribly immature. You would have thought adults would know how to comport themselves properly in court. SH actually greeted a fellow PPAG person with a kiss. Unbelievable.

The behaviour in court mimiced that at the PCC meeting, except that due to the environment it had to be conducted in silence. You will have observed DC and Anne Ward's reactions to the various people who spoke out at the meeting; shaking of heads, scornful laughter, dismissive body langauge, conspirational side swipes, knee jerk handwritten notes to the chair etc. On the stage for everyone to see, it was gross behaviour.

Placed in context, it was a community council convened to listen to the views of the community. It is not really fitting for community councillors to belittle, deride , denigrate and worst of all judge those who speak up. Its not an internet notice board, its a body dedicated to representing the people, their very reason for being.

[Makaveli]

My wife was there at the PCC meeting and she is lecturer at the university and she said that she was stunned by the way that DC, RS and JS were acting. She said much of the above too Porty that the child like way they dismissed what people had to say was shocking and that most of her students are more mature and better behaved in lectures than this lot!!!

They really do seem to be in their own bubble and to be honest from what I have seen on FB and here I think their bubble may be about to burst.

[Pal of Porty]

The irony is that when this type of behaviour is commented on it is wrongly labelled as bullying, intimidation or whatever and does not penetrate their little PPAG bubble which is devoid of reality. Several Parsons Green parents I talked to, who did not even know we had a PCC let alone the individuals on it, left the meeting half way through in total disgust at the way the meeting was being chaired and the individual behaviour of some of the people on stage.

[Porty]

They really do seem to be in their own bubble and to be honest from what I have seen on FB and here I think their bubble may be about to burst.

Unless EC step in and help, it is going to very difficultto dislodge the stranglehold the group of 5 have on our PCC.

I think it was Gilo who first mentioned that the chair seemed to be deliberately baiting the crowd into an angry, perhaps hysterical response. Prior to the meeting, "we"-as in the rest of the community, had no real feel for how many PPAgers would show up. However, PPAG would have known their support was going be tiny, as many on the stage as there were in the audience.

The only way PPAG could get any sort of positive (for them) result was to have the meeting abandoned due to an unruly crowd.

On stage ear witnesses, time and time again, heard DC cajole John Stewart to abandon, citing abusive behaviour by the crowd. She passed him note after note.

Then we had Hawkins, she gesticulated to him for about 10 minutes to get up and speak. He did, attempting to launch a carefully calculated grenade, designed to cause uproar.

The chair let him have the floor "I was about to give you a good report card, please be respectful to nice Councillor Hawkins".

Fortunately, it didn't come off.

The audience were content to let their feeling be known with applause for the seemingly relentless positive contributions emanating from the community.

[joeshmoe]

On stage ear witnesses, time and time again, heard DC cajole John Stewart to abandon, citing abusive behaviour by the crowd. She passed him note after note.

Then we had Hawkins, she gesticulated to him for about 10 minutes to get up and speak. He did, attempting to launch a carefully calculated grenade, designed to cause uproar.

I have heard this said too from a friend who was at the meeting. She stated it was very obvious Diana Cairns was repeatedly trying to get the meeting cancelled, probably with the premise of publicly denegrading PFANS as some sort of screaming mob. She became more agitated as the meeting went on as Parents not only respectfully attended what was a shambles, but also stood to make great and heartfelt points. Note after note was passed to the chair

They will eventually lose and they will eventually lose a lot of money in court costs

[seashell]

Why does John Stewart appear to be in Diana Cairns' pocket? Does he always do what she wants? exactly what sort of power does she have over him?

[Mark Cameron]

I just got an email from CEC.

"I have received a number of emails regarding Portobello CC and the Special Meeting held on 26 April and will respond to you as soon as possible.

Regards

Eileen

Eileen Hewitt | Community Council Liaison & Development Officer | Services for Communities"

[tufty]

My family are from southern Italy and I have always told them that we just don't have problems with councils being influenced or led by any kind of corruption, but from reading these posts and learning about their (PCC) attempts to block planning for a modern home to accomodate a disabled child with her family!!?? I will have to change my tune next time and say that we have our own type of mafia here too, with a lack of morals and own personal agendas, just less style and no guns.

[Porty]

I just got an email from CEC.

"I have received a number of emails regarding Portobello CC and the Special Meeting held on 26 April and will respond to you as soon as possible.

Regards

Eileen

Eileen Hewitt | Community Council Liaison & Development Officer | Services for Communities"

I wish I could feel like you are getting somewhere and its brilliant that you are trying. If you recall the previous attempt to bring PPAG before the PCC. John Stewart played the neutrality card to the CCLD office and they supported him. So they are up to their necks in it.

Furthermore, ifthe Emails are complaints, the first port of call for CCLD will be to contact Yogi Bear to establish if the complaints have merit. Yogi will no doubt explain that PCC have always been neutral on complaints especially those which are non competent. And in any case, he got nothing but positive feedback from those he spoke to after the meeting. The significant majority of whom thought he did a great job. He may even be tempted to put that in big red letters.

[Bob Jefferson]

The latest poster will be available to collect from Cash Brokers and Cove in Porty High Street from tomorrow.

[Porty]

Looks good but where's the "neutral" score? Hardly seems fair leaving John and Brenda out, they were at the meeting too. We may disagree but they deserve inclusion.

[Porty]

My family are from southern Italy and I have always told them that we just don't have problems with councils being influenced or led by any kind of corruption, but from reading these posts and learning about their (PCC) attempts to block planning for a modern home to accomodate a disabled child with her family!!?? I will have to change my tune next time and say that we have our own type of mafia here too, with a lack of morals and own personal agendas, just less style and no guns.

Bellfield Lane?

It is woth going over again, as the contrast in PCC behaviour when compared to the recent PCC meeting is stark.

The application recieved 62 comments in total; 47 in support and 15 objections. So 3 to 1 in favour of the development. As you may imagine the 15 objections included contributions from Hawkins, Cairns and so on. So how far off pitch were PCC when it came to community representation?

When the application was discussed by the PCC reactions to the proposal were mixed, with many comments both against and in favour. It was eventually decided to take a vote on whether to support or object to the application. The initial vote was tied, with 7 against and 7 in favour of the application. The Chair then decided to re-take the vote with a result of 7 in favour and 8 against the application. The Chair was tasked with drafting an objection on behalf of the PCC.

Surely when PCC is split by just one vote, there is a case for neutrality!!! Much more so when there's 2000 names on a petition and 240 to 6 in favour of dropping the appeal at a special PCC meeting

But NO- here's the draft objection response, prepared by the chair- See if you can spot where the supportive comments get a mention?

Dear Sir,
Planning Application, 10/01741/FUL, 9/2, Bellfield Lane. Portobello

On behalf of Portobello Community Council, I wish to object to this application to build a 3 bedroom house at the above address. This decision was taken after considerable debate, the community council, on balance, voting to object to this application. While we fully understand the applicants’ desire to build an accessible family home specifically designed to cater for the needs of their severely disabled daughter, we have objected to several applications to build new houses in this lane in the past and the majority of those present felt that the community council should be consistent in its response to planning applications in this area. We therefore wish to object for the following reasons.

Contrary to the Character of the Conservation Area and to The Portobello Conservation Area Character Appraisal.

While the community council realises that a precedent has been set for some new houses to be built in this lane, it is rapidly becoming clear that various developers are intent on creating a whole new street of houses on both sides of the lane in an area where there never was any residential development. One new house has been built at the rear of number 11 and planning permission granted for two more. Numbers 17 and 19 have had permission refused to build new houses at the foot of their gardens, the owners of number 17 recently lodging an appeal. There is also the prospect of another new house being built on the side of the lane next to the nursery. There must surely come a point at which such a high degree of new development threatens to spoil the character of this part of the conservation area and the whole character of this lane which complements the unspoiled row of mid Victorian cottages, will have been radically altered. Indeed it was for these very reasons – that the proposals would result in a fundamental change in the appearance of the lane to the detriment of the character and appearance of the conservation area - that the last two applications regarding numbers 17 and 19 Bellfield Lane were refused.
We do acknowledge however that these two applications related to new houses which the applicants wished to build in their gardens while this application relates to a brown field site where there is a history of commercial use and where the present structure has no merit at all. We do feel however that there is a very real danger of overdevelopment in this part of the conservation area.

The Portobello Conservation Area Character Appraisal states that over-development has occurred in back gardens as well as some over-building in back lanes and that careful attention needs to be paid to such developments in the future if the character of the conservation area is to be both preserved and protected.

Traffic and Safety Issues.
The creation of a new street presents several serious traffic and safety issues. The lane is very narrow, with a tight right angled bend at the top. There are no pavements down either side. Figure 6 in the design statement seems to indicate how a fire engine could access the site but this is hard to believe as refuse lorries cannot negotiate the bend and at present rubbish bins have to be gathered together at the entrance to the lane on uplift days. There is a car repair business at the foot of the lane and a children’s nursery right at the bend in the lane. The nursery has 110 places with permission for 75 children to be present at a time. Although there is access to the nursery by means of a narrow vennel from the High Street, double and triple buggies use the rear access along the lane as do cars dropping children off at the nursery. If permission was to be granted for yet another house in this lane then this complex mix of traffic and safety problems would only be increased. It is perhaps pertinent to note that the corner of the new house at the top of the lane, right at the bend, has already been damaged by vehicles struggling to negotiate the tight corner. The idea of a hammerhead turning space is both practical and sensible but is there any guarantee that this space would always be available for vehicles to reverse into and then drive back up the lane?

Design and Materials.
While Caithness stone and cedar shingles may well be traditional Scottish building materials, they are not the traditional building materials of the Portobello Conservation Area. We are not aware of Caithness stone having been used in any other house in the Portobello area. While the front of the proposed house would present a pitched slate roof to the lane, the rear of the house, with its angular copper clad roof, was felt, by some community councillors, to be out of character with the design and materials of the surrounding original houses.
Therefore, as Portobello Community Council believes, on balance, this proposal to be contrary to the character of the conservation area and contrary to the Portobello Conservation Area Character Appraisal and as the majority of councillors feel that the design and the materials are not in keeping with the conservation area and that there are significant traffic and safety issues involved, we wish to object to this application.
Yours sincerely,
John M. Stewart,
Chair, Portobello Community Council.

The planning application was approved unanimoulsy. Officials said yes, politicians said yes and those amongst the community who expressed a view- the majority said yes. PCC stood alone, the only group where a majority objected.

ANY DOUBT THAT THE CURRENT PCC EXIST TO REPRESENT THE PLANNING BIAS OF A SMALL GROUP OF SELF-INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS- was laid to rest.

[Mark Cameron]

I just got an email from CEC.

"I have received a number of emails regarding Portobello CC and the Special Meeting held on 26 April and will respond to you as soon as possible.

Regards

Eileen

Eileen Hewitt | Community Council Liaison & Development Officer | Services for Communities"

I wish I could feel like you are getting somewhere and its brilliant that you are trying.

This is only my first round complaint Porty and one which I know a fair few others have also made. The reply and action from the CEC will prompt the next step. There is pressure building from the community for change and I really don't think PCC will have an option but to embrace it or become extinct.

The movement for change is brewing and it ain't gonna be stopped.

Positive Porty! (tm) - @wangi

[Bob Jefferson]

+porty (tm) - bob

[Rabigyin]

It would seem that it is only when certain members of PCC start to make noises that things start to happen.
Items seem to be handled in the manner of Joseph stalin, agree or be outcasts.
In addition, there seems to be no consideration of the facts of some problems.
It would seem that the elections for PCC are some time away.
I would doubt that the same members would ever resign, as this would be an admission of being wrong.
The only way is to vote them off at the earliest opportunity and restructure the entire council.
In the meantime, I have voted in the "no confidence" motion, although I think it will be totally ignored.

[Makaveli]

I agree with what you say Rabigyin - I also think that they wouldn't give up their positions because it gives them a feeling of power over others.

I think the people of Porty have had their eyes opened recently to what is going on at the PCC.

[gillian]

Imagine what fun the Spitting Image people would have with DC and JS and the note passing

[Rabigyin]

Rosa, Crack Up?

[Bob Jefferson]

From today's EN:

Letters: School in park will be great environment for learning

[Rabigyin]

That'll learn PPAG

[Makaveli]

From FB:-

Gillian Dunn - I think you are in danger of excluding a significant but largely silent section of our community and I am specifically talking about the fact this space is right beside a relatively poor area.

Is the above (which was taken from the Save Porty Park FB page) for real?

[Doris]

Draft minutes of emergency PCC meeting available

http://www.portobellocc.org/PCC-2012042 ... eeting.pdf

[fresian]

Just read the latest article in the EEN re High School, it is now quoting DC as a PPAG member, how can this nutter still pretend to represent the community when she has such a vested interest in a minority group. Hence the reason the meeting descended into a farce. The article also mentions "Ex" Councillor Hawkins ( My God, that has a good ring to it)

[Bob Jefferson]

Dear PPAG

AN APPEAL FROM THE SCHOOLS OF PORTOBELLO HIGH SCHOOL CATCHMENT AREA

As the representatives of a community of schools made up of over 2,750 children and their families from across east Edinburgh we are appealing to you to drop your appeal now and allow the new Portobello High School to be built as soon as possible in Portobello Park.

We acknowledge you have concerns, but urge you to reconsider the merits of pursuing lengthy and no doubt costly legal proceedings and to focus on the huge benefits the new school would bring to our whole community, especially to our greatest assets - our children.

We ask you to think again about the impact of your legal action on the thousands of children at the cluster primary schools and at the High School. The continued delay caused by your appeals means that hundreds of children already at the High School will now never benefit from the state of the art building they deserve.

Your use of the legal process to postpone the site start will mean that hundreds of primary school children who are now getting ready for the exciting new world of secondary school will be denied the chance to experience it in new surroundings fit for purpose.

The High School is already performing well despite the challenges posed to staff and pupils by the out of date buildings, but just imagine the centre of excellence it would become in a fabulous new building in the park.

Step back from any immediate anxieties you may have, many of which have been shown to be unfounded or exaggerated, and think of the long-lasting advantages for all of us of having a new school in a wonderful setting.

Think of how inspiring it will be for thousands of children to go to school in surroundings that are designed to get the best out of them. Think again that by dropping your appeal you will not only allow the building of a stunning new secondary school - setting new standards for the whole country - but also free up the necessary space for the long overdue rebuilding of St John’s Primary School.

We urge you to reconsider the consequences of your actions and do the right thing for thousands of children across east Edinburgh: please drop your appeal now.

Yours sincerely,

Chairs of Parent Councils of the following schools:

Brunstane Primary School - Susan Ferguson
Duddingston Primary School - Carole Fisher
Parsons Green Primary School - Niki Bathgate
Portobello High School - Paul Smart
Royal High Primary School - Fiona Dick
Towerbank Primary School - Sarah Fairbrother

[Bob Jefferson]

A notable omission from the signatories is St Johns Primary School. The Chair, Donald Canavan, was invited to participate but chose not to respond. St J parents, (including other members of the Parent Council) who strongly support the new PHS and were not consulted or even made aware of the request, are now asking questions.

[Franck]

A notable omission from the signatories is St Johns Primary School. The Chair, Donald Canavan, was invited to participate but chose not to respond. St J parents, (including other members of the Parent Council) who strongly support the new PHS and were not consulted or even made aware of the request, are now asking questions.

St.Johns certainly seem to be far less pro-active than Towerbank when it comes to School councils,communication,facebook pages etc...and we have more to gain than Towerbank from a potential moving of PHS!

[lg1726]

we have more to gain than Towerbank from a potential moving of PHS!

Indeed as most of St John's pupils go onto Holyrood RC High School, perhaps the parent council and indeed the parents could not relate to the content of the letter, irrespective of the views of Towerbank parents on the role of the PC and/or Chair! The letter was primarily addressing the educational challenges of the current PHS and the opportunities presented by the proposed new PHS which is not likely to resonate with them in the way that it does the other cluster primary schools.

Sometimes we all need to raise our eyes and see the perspective of others and where they might be coming from. Were this to address the impact of the ongoing delay on the rebuild of St John's, then that may have resonated with them. They are not in the same boat as the other primary schools and we cannot expect them to react in the same way. They will have unique views on this to the others and that is perhaps the route via which to engage them.

[Pal of Porty]

....Were this to address the impact of the ongoing delay on the rebuild of St John's, then that may have resonated with them.

The cluster letter says;

"Think again that by dropping your appeal you will not only allow the building of a stunning new secondary school - setting new standards for the whole country - but also free up the necessary space for the long overdue rebuilding of St John’s Primary School."

If I were a St John's parent I would have found that bit quite resonating.

[seanie]

I tried to raise the following with the St John's School Board a month ago.

For Portobello High School, the potential delay if they have to re-tender is up to 2 years. There would be additional costs but the main impact on PHS would be that pupils would remain "in sub-standard accommodation in a building that is not fit for purpose and would deny access to state of the art new facilities which would benefit the wider community."

The impact of any delay on other projects is threefold;

Tender came in £5M under budget but that can't be allocated to St John's (the next Wave 3 School) until the contract's signed off.

If they re-tender they might lose that £5M.

Whatever they do with St John's (refurb, new-build, extend) nothing happens till the PHS site is vacated, as part of the PHS is needed.

As a result progressing St John's could be seriously delayed;

"We might have to discount that as an option at present if it could not be delivered within foreseeable timescales.''

[Porty]

Did you get an acknowledgment?

[seanie]

The e-mail address I used I found in an e-mail from sone time ago, so maybe it was out of date, but no I got no response. Should've followed it up but I was caught up in other things.

I'd been thinking of a press release highlighting the issue of the schools and getting away from the PPAG/PFANS he said/she said coverage. Got quotes from some St John's parents but there wasn't much to hang the story on.

[wangi]

A Scottish Parliament motion from the Greens:

S4M-02910 Alison Johnstone: Open Space and Portobello Golf Course—That the Parliament considers that access to green open space is a benefit to health and wellbeing and is essential to supporting more sport and physical activity; notes new research from the OPENspace Research Centre in Edinburgh that, it believes, strengthens the evidence that more green space is linked to less stress in deprived communities; notes that the City of Edinburgh Council has identified 24 parks and woodlands as possible Diamond Jubilee Fields for protection in perpetuity, and supports calls from members of the Portobello community in Edinburgh to protect Portobello golf course from future development by designating it a Jubilee Field or granting it similar protection.

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parli ... 50861.aspx

Still can't help thinking this would have been better pursued when the list of parks was being drawn up... Don't they have to be voted on...

[Bob Jefferson]

I think the time to support this is AFTER the school has got the go ahead, which could be tomorrow if PPAG so chose.

[seanie]

Have the Greens ever put forward any motions supportive of a new Portobello High School?