New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Snow White]

Maybe we should FOI what FOI requests PPAG have made?

Is that doable?

I should think you would tie up dozens of council employees for months if you did that!

[Porty]

I don't know about you Porty but when someone I don't know uses my first name, my reaction is to ask them their's. Most people don't find that intimidating in my experience.

so why attack Seashell for using yout first name, it simply doesn't square. Betty.

It was not the act of askling for someone's name it was the tone adopted when responding to the question. Unhinged was the first word that popped into my head. Which is why I feared for Wendy, it was personal thing, I have no idea how Wendy felt.

[Snow White]

It was not the act of askling for someone's name it was the tone adopted when responding to the question. Unhinged was the first word that popped into my head. Which is why I feared for Wendy, it was personal thing, I have no idea how Wendy felt.

And didn't she ask Wendy to repeat it and subsequently write it down? If I remember correctly? ...

[Porty]

Maybe we should FOI what FOI requests PPAG have made?

Is that doable?

I should think you would tie up dozens of council employees for months if you did that!

You have to admire PPAG's capacity for tripping themselves up. What fantastic 24 hours they've had. Fistly, Hawkins take sthe trouble to write to the Evening newas to berate MM for something she cannot influence directly. And now we have PPAG taking the trouble to request an FOI request for something Seanie has quoted probably dozens of times.

Once they have it, they can't wait to publish on Facebook, keen evidence they have been telling more lies.

[Porty]

It was not the act of askling for someone's name it was the tone adopted when responding to the question. Unhinged was the first word that popped into my head. Which is why I feared for Wendy, it was personal thing, I have no idea how Wendy felt.

And didn't she ask Wendy to repeat it and subsequently write it down? If I remember correctly? ...

Yes.

[Betty Windsor]

I don't know about you Porty but when someone I don't know uses my first name, my reaction is to ask them their's. Most people don't find that intimidating in my experience.

so why attack Seashell for using yout first name, it simply doesn't square. Betty.

It was not the act of askling for someone's name it was the tone adopted when responding to the question. Unhinged was the first word that popped into my head. Which is why I feared for Wendy, it was personal thing, I have no idea how Wendy felt.

I did not "attack" Seashell for using my real name. I go back to my point above-it doesn't feel very nice when someone you don't know or who wants to hide their identity uses your first name.
I was at that meeting and I don't think you would find many people who would agree that Diana's tone was anything other than civil.

[Betty Windsor]

On second thoughts, given the level of hysteria at the meeting I am sure you probably could get people to agree with you.

[Porty]

I'm really keen to hear the third thoughts..........

[Pal of Porty]

..............given the level of hysteria at the meeting....................

Were we at the same meeting?

[seashell]

[quote="Betty Windsor
I did not "attack" Seashell for using my real name. [/quote]

It felt like an attack. As did your incessant efforts to try to find out who I am, until Wangi put a stop to that. Of course, prior to my using your your real name you'd never had any problem with anyone else doing just that.
Maybe this is a special PPAG technique, trying to intimidate? oh no, that's what they accuse other people of doing, isn't it?

[storky]

should we have a poll to establish what most of us think regarding the nutjob ?

One thing about the nutjob; I am going to remember her for a long time. In future campaigns she fights for, I will seriously consider opposing everything she stands for. I certainly don't want to support anything that is detrimental to Portobello, but all things being equal I will oppose the nutjob.

Am I correct in saying the originally proposed Viridor waste site would be located at the back of her house? When Viridor eventually reapply, I'm thinking that perhaps Portobello needs a waste site.

[gillian]

On second thoughts, given the level of hysteria at the meeting I am sure you probably could get people to agree with you.

Betty, can I ask, and I am not being sarky, snippy or anything else, really I am genuinely interested. What part of the meeting did you find a level of hysteria that caused you to comment? Are you talking about anything specific?

[Franck]

Am I correct in saying the originally proposed Viridor waste site would be located at the back of her house? When Viridor eventually reapply, I'm thinking that perhaps Portobello needs a waste site.

No.Wrong side of the crescent.

Anyway, alot of good people live in the same street as DC,some even have posters up for a new school.

[storky]

Am I correct in saying the originally proposed Viridor waste site would be located at the back of her house? When Viridor eventually reapply, I'm thinking that perhaps Portobello needs a waste site.

No.Wrong side of the crescent.

Anyway, alot of good people live in the same street as DC,some even have posters up for a new school.

Ok - thanks, scrap that particular idea.

[Porty]

i have not seen the letter written by Malcolm Bett, which I believe was circulated around Park Avenue and the vicinity. I am however prepared to accept the synopsis he gave and his stated purpose, which as i understand it, was to enlist the help of neutral or pro-school on the parkers, to try and use gentle influence over neighbours who were either anti or neutral. He did mention names, which he culled from the public domain.

DC boasted the matter had been reported to the police- I have no way of knowing who did the reporting but if it wasn't DC herself, there's at least one more nutjob in the oppo camp.

[Snow White]

On second thoughts, given the level of hysteria at the meeting I am sure you probably could get people to agree with you.

Betty, can I ask, and I am not being sarky, snippy or anything else, really I am genuinely interested. What part of the meeting did you find a level of hysteria that caused you to comment? Are you talking about anything specific?

At every single meeting I have attending regarding the school over the last 6 years, the PPAG delegation have noisily jeered, booed, bayed and generally misbehaved. How dare they begin to comment about anyone else's behaviour?

[Pal of Porty]

Ok - thanks, scrap that particular idea.

.....And I should think so too!

[Porty]

At every single meeting I have attending regarding the school over the last 6 years, the PPAG delegation have noisily jeered, booed, bayed and generally misbehaved. How dare they begin to comment about anyone else's behaviour?

Their behaviour in court was abysmal too and I don't think that will have gonr unnoticed. They appear to believe they live in a bubble.

[gillian]

It's just that I was amazed at the way people conducted themselves, given that feelings were running so high and the fact that we were being treated like school children. At no time did I feel that people were getting hysterical. I will be interested what Betty has to say.

[seashell]

At every single meeting I have attending regarding the school over the last 6 years, the PPAG delegation have noisily jeered, booed, bayed and generally misbehaved. How dare they begin to comment about anyone else's behaviour?

Their behaviour in court was abysmal too and I don't think that will have gonr unnoticed. They appear to believe they live in a bubble.

I'll second that. Their behavious in court was little short of astonishing and more appropriate for people at a pantomime. It was actually rather embarrassing to see and they really showed themselves up.

[Makaveli]

What sort of behaviour?

[Epykat]

What sort of behaviour?

Apparently they were wearing dodgy clothes.

[Makaveli]

What sort of clothes?

[seashell]

What sort of behaviour?

nudging one another, exchanging incredulous looks, silent guffaws etc. Terribly immature. You would have thought adults would know how to comport themselves properly in court. SH actually greeted a fellow PPAG person with a kiss. Unbelievable.

[seashell]

What sort of clothes?

SH wore a dodgy tartan lumberjack jacket, the sort that were popular in the mid seventies.

[rmolehusband]

..............given the level of hysteria at the meeting....................

Were we at the same meeting?

Were you actually at the meeting Betty?

[Betty Windsor]

On second thoughts, given the level of hysteria at the meeting I am sure you probably could get people to agree with you.

Betty, can I ask, and I am not being sarky, snippy or anything else, really I am genuinely interested. What part of the meeting did you find a level of hysteria that caused you to comment? Are you talking about anything specific?

I just felt that there was a large number of parents who seemed genuinely frightened at the prospect of their children going to the High school. Some people sounded as though they were moved to tears-I could have misinterpreted it as it could have been nerves from speaking in front of a large crowd.
The way Steven Hawkins was treated was extremely disrespectful. He was attempting to say that the school is in better condition now than it has been in years-he was not saying it should not be rebuilt. Given the amount of money the council has spent on the school in the last few years I don't know why people would find this so unbelievable. I guess it does not fit in with the PFAN's narrative. The way Ros was interrogated (mostly with the same question) was also very distasteful in my opinion.
These were my impressions only and I would not be surprised if they do not mirror the experience of the majority in the room, many of whom seemed to be baying for blood-or if not blood the resignation of DC, JS and RS.

[seanie]

You clearly missed what the person who spoke before Stephen Hawkins was saying.

Parson's Green didn't get the new heating system it was due to get because the money was diverted for essential repairs to PHS. There have indeed been large sums of money spent on PHS in the last few years but it hasn't gone on 'improvements' as you'd normally understand the term.

It's gone on essential works just to keep the school open.

[seanie]

As to being disrespectful, I thought he was shown far more than he deserves.

[Bob Jefferson]

It's true that the Council has spent a fortune in essential maintenance over the last few years. What choice did they have? And it's also true, sadly, that another fortune will be spent keeping it up to scratch due to the further delay caused by PPAG's actions. It's a bit like owning a car. The older it gets, the more expensive it becomes to keep it on the road and eventually you have to cut your losses. The money that will end up being wasted keeping PHS open would have gone a long way to re-building St John's. Stephen Hawkins' remarks just added insult to injury. He would have been better saying nothing.

I thought throughout that Ros and Diana were trying to play the sympathy card but no-one was buying it. Intimidated? Yeah, right.

[Puerto bella]

Re: Betty's comments above on SH at the meeting - hysterical - it was like a Mr Bean moment.
The chair opened the meeting and in that opening he talked about questions being directed to Roz and Tom. He did not openly invite questions for each of the others on the stage. At one point I found myself thinking - why is everyone else up there when he's directing questions at 2 people. So that explains why the questions were to Roz I think - plus they were always going to be asked of the head of the group so I dont see how tht is an issue. Has she not been the person who has done all the press too? Who is head now though?

[Bob Jefferson]

The other CC members were there to listen I suppose but they did look stupid up there. I bet most of them felt stupid too. I'm surprised they weren't gaffer-taped. Those members who support the school on the park were reportedly asked by the Chair to remove their 'Drop the Appeal' lapel stickers as they were supposed to be 'neutral'. To their credit, they ignored his advice.

[Rabigyin]

Given that the PCC could never try and stop PPAG because there are too many of PPAG on PCC.
According to Guidlines on Community Councils, they are meant to reflect "the majority" of their community.
How can they do that? there is a total conflict of interest here, one cannot be a member of both PCC and PPAG at the same time.

However the majority of parents and pupils who either attend or will shortly attend the school are without PCC's area.

Basically, the who problem is a mess. On one hand, there, in reality, is no other viable way of building a new school, safely and quickly. Building on the existing site or other brownfield sites are not up to the job. i can see the angst created by using parkland, but really, THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION AVAILABLE.

[gillian]

Ok Betty, so disrespectful and distasteful rather than hysterical..

As it happens I find the words, interrogated, baying and blood a little over the top, though I must admit a resignation or two would have been very welcome.

I think an independent observer would have detected passion, anger and frustration certainly, but hysteria, nah don't think so.

[seanie]

Save Porty Park I can assure the hearts of all the members of PPAG are fully engaged, otherwise we would not take on this financial risk. PPAG are not preventing a new school, the council are. They planned to build on the existing site back in 2006 when the funding wasn't available then when it was, they saw the opportunity to make more money by building on the park and selling off the old site.

The Council were planning to build on the existing site back in 2006?

But when Portobello was allocated the funding in December 2008 the Council chose to build on the Park instead?

This is deranged. Are the core of PPAG all clinically insane?