Underage drinking + associated noise/vandalism

Discussion and debate on the issues affecting Portobello
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Epykat
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Post by Epykat » 09 Apr 2007, 15:20

sconegrrl wrote:On 4 seperate occassions recently, I have seen men (young and old) urinating in the high street IN THE AFTERNOON
Disgustingly enough, twice in the past week I have seen two separate incidences of this. One nice chap was having a pee up against the wheely bin at the foot of Windsor Place (knew those bins would be handy for something) and another one was having a pee (an extremely long pee I may add :roll: ) up against a lamp post in Moira Terrace. Both in the middle of the afternoon. The second guy even had two very small kids with him to set an example to.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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Post by timk » 12 Apr 2007, 13:27

Firstly, please don't report people for gathering on the beach unless they are being noisy / causing a nuisance. It wastes police time breaking these things up early when there are other actual acts of vandalism etc going on. The beach is one of the few places where you can choose to have a bonfire and we dont want to see that banned altogether as New Year and fireworks night make for excellent opportunities for residents to enjoy a bonfire with friends.

However, if these are groups of teenagers arriving with large amounts of alcohol and causing a lot of noise, by all means get their party stopped or moved on. Just dont tar them all with the same brush as some of these gatherings can be much more civilised

Second, it's only a problem to video them - you are perfectly at liberty to take photos. See the rules and comments from a lawyer here http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php/2004/1 ... e#comments Near the bottom of the comments, similar situations are covered

Data protection comes into force with fixed cctv systems rather than photos and is likely to be more of an issue.

However, no permits are needed to film in Edinburgh - see http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&ct=res ... dxwZkq2b3g and people cannot by law expect privacy in a public place so you are not likely to get much trouble with a handheld video camera. Just be careful if the teenagers start skinny dipping as they have been known to - that would be hard to explain

rapunzell
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Post by rapunzell » 12 Apr 2007, 14:02

I'm hoping there isn't a change towards peaceful bonfires. I've had whole summers of a quiet night beach bonfire every couple of weeks and the polis didn't mind at all. Mind you, an old neighbour mentioned she was scared to go along the prom at nights because she'd seen this suspicious gathering round a fire and thought the worst. She was astonished to discover it was just us, folk she knew, but quite cheered.

Last summer was different though, I smelt firesmoke every night and there were a few pretty loud beach parties, some just late pub overspills, with screeching fights and falls into the sea (and into the fire) that needed assistance. How many nights were the various 999 folk called to the bottom of Bath Street last summer?! It'd have been cheaper to have a couple of nocturnal lifeguards!

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Post by Mrs Mangle » 13 Apr 2007, 08:26

So from what I gather from the posts here is

1. You don't want the bonfires stopped altogether, just stop the "neds" from having them.
2. You don't want drinking on the beach to stop altogether, just the "neds from drinking.
3.You don't want gangs to stop from gathering on the beach for above mentioned activities, just the "neds" and the overspill from the pubs to be stopped.

Would it be fair to say what you would really like is for the residents from Portobello to be able to do as they please but to stop outsiders, unless of course they are invited by the residents of Portobello.

Would it be alright for non-residents to use it during the day in the summer months, and spend their money on whatever shops/slots/funfair is available, after all we wouldn't want the traders to miss out just because of the residents now would we.

Honestly if you people read over what you are posting a day or so after posting, you'll see what other can see, you are a shower of NIMBY's, more commonly known as a selfish, clanish, crowd who look down your noses at others.

Having said all that people should be able to go for a walk along EDINBURGH's prom (albeit in Portobello) (a prom which belongs to the CITY, not the residents of Portobello) without fear.

It brings it all back to lack of Police in the City.

Mrs M.
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wangi
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Post by wangi » 13 Apr 2007, 09:09

And what does your post make you look like "Mrs Mangle"? There is nothing wrong with folk being unhappy with inappropriate behaviour on the beach and Promenade.

What people here are saying is they are more than happy for the beach to be used for whatever, but do it in a respectful way - respectful for the environment and respectful for those living nearby.

The beach isn't there for an after closing time "lets get pissed even more" and hold dangerous bonfires venue. It's not there for people to lob glass bottles all over. It's not there to look like a landfill site (there are plenty of bins). It's not there for a racecourse for mini motorbikes. It's not there for people to walk along while they throw stones at peoples windows. It's not there... get the idea? Common respect, courtesy and consideration...

Get yourself down one night after a nice sunny day, say about 10pm... ...And then the next moring about 7am to see the results.

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Post by rapunzell » 13 Apr 2007, 10:42

Mrs Mangle, if you actually read the posts properly, you'll see very clearly that I for one didn't object to neds, and as for Porty beach being for Porty people, there are neds here too. Of course this is Edinburgh's beach, that is precisely why we try to make sure that it is available for *everyone* to enjoy. And I mean enjoy, not to trash it so no-one else can enjoy it. The only prejudices here are your own.

My objection was to anyone, whatever their class or location, who uses the beach so irresponsibly that they put their own and others safety in danger *on purpose*, wreck the beach on purpose, and deliberately spoil it for other people, including neds! This is pretty specific and reasonable. Why on earth you should be so prejudiced against neds and out of towners that you imagine everyone is, is unfortunate. It's just as likely that a party of drunk rich local kids set fire to each other, aim fireworks at others (like last year, before you imagine any more prejudices) and leave broken glass in the sand.

When neds have been mentioned as the ones causing trouble, it is because they have been witnessed causing trouble, or it's by people they have injured. That's not prejudice, that's accuracy.

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Post by Porty » 13 Apr 2007, 11:08

rapunzell wrote:
When neds have been mentioned as the ones causing trouble, it is because they have been witnessed causing trouble, or it's by people they have injured. That's not prejudice, that's accuracy.
Well said, god how they hate accuracy!!!

Thing is its a fine line between being an 'ornery good citizen and a ned. One minute you can be walking along minding your own business being a respectful citizen, The next thing you know, you've thrown a brick through a window or threatened an old woman. What right have others to judge you as a ned? Surely your previous good citizenship ought to be taken into account even although those doing the judging don't know about that.

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Post by rapunzell » 13 Apr 2007, 11:29

:D

I meet some perfectly friendly neds on evenings along the prom. On one occasion the group had been chucked out of the pub for fighting, had glassed each other in a screeching rage, had scattered broken glass on the sand and chippie litter along the prom then attempted to set fire to the litter bin but failed.

However, with blood still running down their respective faces they asked me if I needed any help, declined my offer of the first aid kit, agreed it was a lovely sunset and chatted for a while about what a good evening they'd all had. They headed off eventually to meet their mates in town, and they only set off a couple of car alarms on their way up the street.

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Porty
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Post by Porty » 13 Apr 2007, 11:40

Do you think everyone has a bit of ned in them or if not everyone, most people.?

I certainly did some neddish things in my youth.

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Post by rapunzell » 13 Apr 2007, 12:05

Yes, good point, and can still do.. :oops: I'd have probably called it loutish/ loudly drunk/ typical bloody student though, and temporary (ish) which makes me think we're all using completely different meanings of the poor ned word. Mrs Mangle said something in the Utopia thread about thinkng of herself as a bit of a ned because she wasn't a snob, which makes me think it is something else entirely to her, which would explain a lot.

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Post by Porty » 13 Apr 2007, 12:25

Yep, from your tale above; some of those neds seemed to have a degree of decency, offering to assist you. They may have just got caught up in mob culture.

Your story is reminiecent to the attack on the refuge seeker in Glasgow, which is in the news at the moment. It seems like three of the neds were capable of going so far but when ned 4 decided to stray into indecent assault, it was too much for them.

If Mrs Mangle does see a snob as being the opposite of a ned then i'm afraid I don't get it.

Using the Mangled logiic the neds who were bullying the poor woman and her child would morph into snobs by refusing to join in the indecent assault. What a bunch of snobs they sound. :roll: :roll: :lol:

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Post by Mrs Mangle » 13 Apr 2007, 13:07

First of all Wangi, please don't think the behaviour on the beach isn't the behaviour everyone suffers City wide, I happen to live in a council scheme/estate and be assured we get this behaviour 7 nights a week 52 weeks a year. Setting wheelie bins on fire, underage drinking sold from local shop, fighting amongst themseleves and pity help any poor passer by.
When I suggested that i was a ned it was a joke, clearly not taken as a joke.
As a person who attend many local meetings from LDC, Community Council, etc, be assured that the police are never tired telling the people that not all youth are causing anti-social behaviour and could decent up standing members of the public stop phoning to get them moved along as they need somewhere to go, while they are taking calls from people complaining they can't get out and solve real crimes.
As I say I'm not a ned nor am I a snob, if the fires are indeed out of control people should say that in the post, I'm not a mind reader, and I personally think nobody should light fires on the beach ned or otherwise.
As for drinking I think it's time the ban was brought in to stop everyone from drinking in the streets/beach, or anywhere in public .
There is enough pubs within this city, so if your of age you get in if your not like everyone else you'll need to wait.
Then if the people who were paid to un hold the law done just that the beach and streets of Edinburgh would be a safer place for us all.
But we all know thats a long way away.

Mrs M
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Epykat
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Post by Epykat » 13 Apr 2007, 13:35

Mrs Mangle wrote:So from what I gather from the posts here is

1. You don't want the bonfires stopped altogether, just stop the "neds" from having them.
2. You don't want drinking on the beach to stop altogether, just the "neds from drinking.
3.You don't want gangs to stop from gathering on the beach for above mentioned activities, just the "neds" and the overspill from the pubs to be stopped..
Yes.
Mrs Mangle wrote:Would it be fair to say what you would really like is for the residents from Portobello to be able to do as they please but to stop outsiders, unless of course they are invited by the residents of Portobello.
No.

What I would like is for people (including teenagers whom I mostly like a lot and find very entertaining) to come to the beach, spend their money, have a good time and go home - without it involving fighting, running riot, vandalism and aggressive drunkenness. I can usually manage that so why can't they?
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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Post by Mrs Mangle » 13 Apr 2007, 14:29

Generally because the most of the teenagers are under age and can't handle the drink, or they can handle it and think, "well I've had xxx amount and I'm holding my own so I'll drink even more" that's when the trouble usually beings, vomiting, thinking they are invincible, and generally want to take on the world.

Epykat, thank you for your honesty. Not many others were as honest as you. :) .

Mrs M
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Post by Porty » 13 Apr 2007, 15:38

Mrs Mangle wrote:
Epykat, thank you for your honesty. Not many others were as honest as you. :) .

Mrs M
Name and shame? :D

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Post by rapunzell » 13 Apr 2007, 15:43

Let me just reassure Mrs Mangle that I was honest and still am about my dislike of neddish behaviour. That is, the actions of people who think it is alright to damage and destroy things wherever they go, and who put that into practice. Officially I think 'neds' is supposed to mean uneducated and badly brought up hooligans/ vandals/ petty criminals, so I was pretty accurate about my description this time, though I may decide to find a better word in future, or adjusty it to fit.

Still not sure what to call people who think it is snobby, selfish, prejudiced or nimby to think that litter should go into the bins, and a good party shouldn't neccessarily end in bloodshed of passers-by, or that trying to curtail the behaviour of unrepentant hooligans (really do need a better word!) is impinging on their personal space and feedom to 'enjoy' themselves.
Last edited by rapunzell on 13 Apr 2007, 22:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Porty » 13 Apr 2007, 15:50

My kids are not neds, no way. However, every now and agian I catch them misbehaving or perhaps being less than honest. Their standard response is "I was only joking". The next move is to accuse myself or others of a similar or even unrelated misdemeanour, in an attempt to change the subject. We've all been there. :cry: :roll: :D :shock: :x :arrow:

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Post by rapunzell » 13 Apr 2007, 16:19

Yup, I think I know what you mean. The difference I was trying to define was between those who temporarily behave like that, as a phase as with teenagers maybe, or when drunk, or just carried away, and those who do it as a way of life all the time, everywhere. I mean the latter when I say neds.

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Post by teddygirl » 13 Apr 2007, 22:07

Mrs Mangle wrote:So from what I gather from the posts here is

1. You don't want the bonfires stopped altogether, just stop the "neds" from having them.
2. You don't want drinking on the beach to stop altogether, just the "neds from drinking.
3.You don't want gangs to stop from gathering on the beach for above mentioned activities, just the "neds" and the overspill from the pubs to be stopped.

Would it be fair to say what you would really like is for the residents from Portobello to be able to do as they please but to stop outsiders, unless of course they are invited by the residents of Portobello.

Would it be alright for non-residents to use it during the day in the summer months, and spend their money on whatever shops/slots/funfair is available, after all we wouldn't want the traders to miss out just because of the residents now would we.

Honestly if you people read over what you are posting a day or so after posting, you'll see what other can see, you are a shower of NIMBY's, more commonly known as a selfish, clanish, crowd who look down your noses at others.

Having said all that people should be able to go for a walk along EDINBURGH's prom (albeit in Portobello) (a prom which belongs to the CITY, not the residents of Portobello) without fear.

It brings it all back to lack of Police in the City.

Mrs M.
Mrs Mangle, you are right, Portobello and it's beach does not belong to us residents but we are the ones who choose to live here and should be allowed to have some pride in where we stay and care about the damage that is caused by day trippers and night revelllers. As for non-residents using it in the summer months, they are sometimes the worst. Have you ever come down in the morning after a sunny day ?..............all sorts of rubbish left behind, dirty nappies, cans ,bottles,food, disposable bbq's etc etc, it's a disgrace.
I don't think we are unique in thinking that the area we live in is "ours", it's only because we care about it, and certainly don't mind sharing it with others who don't abuse it.

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Post by Epykat » 15 Apr 2007, 19:19

teddygirl wrote:I don't think we are unique in thinking that the area we live in is "ours", it's only because we care about it, and certainly don't mind sharing it with others who don't abuse it.
And the dog walkers are on that beach day in, day out, rain, hail or shine - they know EVERYTHING that goes on. Where are the tourists when it's blowing a gale? They're not there battling against the sleet. Fair weather beach users that's what they are. The whole beach would close down through lack of use if it wasn't for the dog walkers :wink:
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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Post by wangi » 15 Apr 2007, 19:40

Epykat wrote:The whole beach would close down through lack of use if it wasn't for the dog walkers :wink:
And cyclists of course ;)

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Post by Epykat » 15 Apr 2007, 19:46

wangi wrote:
Epykat wrote:The whole beach would close down through lack of use if it wasn't for the dog walkers :wink:
And cyclists of course ;)
Wangi - Shhhhh :shock: . Don't get us started on that debate again :lol:
Anyway, how many cyclists do you hear of who've found a dead body - bet the dog walkers would win hands down on that one :D
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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wangi
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Post by wangi » 15 Apr 2007, 20:19

True, beat on the body front... Best I can give is a dead seal.

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Sandra
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Post by Sandra » 15 Apr 2007, 21:48

mmm heard recently of a cyclist who dislocated a dogs leg on the prom by cycling into the animal, and he was oh dear hope your dog is ok :twisted:

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Post by rapunzell » 15 Apr 2007, 21:59

Aarg, I was knocked over by an unleashed dog running into me! Mind you, that was when I was just little :D

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Post by Epykat » 16 Apr 2007, 12:24

rapunzell wrote:Aarg, I was knocked over by an unleashed dog running into me! Mind you, that was when I was just little :D
I was knocked flying by my dog playing with another large dog on the beach once. The two of them pelted towards me and I couldn't avoid them. I landed flat on my back on the wet sand and was applauded by three workies who were watching from scaffolding on the Prom :oops: :lol:
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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Post by Porty » 16 Apr 2007, 12:28

Epykat wrote:. I landed flat on my back on the wet sand ......:
Did this happen often with a Dog?

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Post by Epykat » 16 Apr 2007, 12:29

Porty wrote:
Epykat wrote:. I landed flat on my back on the wet sand ......:
Did this happen often with a Dog?
You must know by now that I only deal with pedigrees :roll:
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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Porty
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Post by Porty » 16 Apr 2007, 12:30

Here was me thinking any bone would do.

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Post by Epykat » 16 Apr 2007, 12:32

Porty wrote:Here was me thinking any bone would do.
I am going no further with this conversation - too sober :D
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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