Portobello Beach: disabled access project

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 29 Jul 2006, 11:31

This is definately the place to start rounding up those who can think literally, laterally, enthusiastically and engineeringly so here goes:

I would really (understatement) like to be able to get down to the sea here but the sand means I can get about three metres down the sand before pusher-of-the-day gets a hernia, and we'd *never* get back up the slope even in a relay (we've tried!) And all dignity is long gone..

There are beaches and lochs all round the country who have a variety of walkways to give wheels or wobbly legs access to the water, and these range from concrete slipways, fixed stumpy jetty of slatted wood to ground hugging flexible slats of wood, to what looks like lengths of spikey holey rubber that has been rolled out for the purpose. Sometimes these are for access, sometimes primarily to protect the flora and fauna beneath and beside.

Aspects to take into consideration when designing our own little runway that could run from ramp to lowtide level from, for example, the Bath St or the Turkish Bath ramp are changing level of sand, cost, ned-proofness, council-proofness, and motivation to get through red tape. As far as costs go, I have no idea what materials and manpower cost, but I do know that if funds are available for sculpture on the beach, then a path should be automatic. Or we could just get a path as performance art..

So please add your thoughts, ideas and specialist knowledge. I know there's a woman further along the prom who has a bit of old carpet she uses for sand access, which is a great makeshift method and definately shows fighting spirit.

I haven't contacted the council yet as I'd like to have something well thought out to suggest to them first.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 29 Jul 2006, 12:28

Rapunzell, I'm ashamed to admit that we've been much more focussed in Community Council meetings with blocking off access to the beach to deter jet-skiers. Your post highlights the other side of the coin and I'm sure the type of wooden slatted path you see on other beaches wouldn't be expensive to install. Have you approached Lawrence Marshall about getting equal access to the beach? I'm sure he'd be very helpful.

I'll certainly make sure that I raise this issue at the next CC meeting at the end of August, but it would be a shame not to get moving on this a bit quicker.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 29 Jul 2006, 12:42

Thanks! I spent so long battling to get the bollards removed from the ramp by my house (or a gate installed, to keep the sand in) so that I could get onto the beach by *June*, that I am only now having the luxury of working out how to get into the water!

By the way, I am all in favour of having the jetskis kept to the north end of the beach, or beyond the golden balls, and completely banned if they can't behave safely. It would only take ten minutes to padlock a chain across the King's Road prom ramp. Wheelchairs could still limbo underneath it and the council tractor would presumably have a key.

I would like to speak to council bods, especially now that I have real names to talk to (courtesy of POL Denise, who is a star!) but think it will speed things up if I have an actual plan to give them, instead of just another challenge.

Denise · Post by **Denise** » 03 Aug 2006, 10:26

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/5197610.stm

wonder if it goes on top of the water with wheels like that!!!

demand one!

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 03 Aug 2006, 12:56

Denise wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/5197610.stm

wonder if it goes on top of the water with wheels like that!!!

demand one!

I've seen those in the states and have an order form in my 'fantasy shopping' folder! I had no idea they were over here, let alone provided by helpful beach councils! - suddenly I have great optimisms about staying on in Porty

Now, we'd need a secure accessible shed type thing to keep it somewhere along the prom..

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 05 Aug 2006, 15:04

I have been looking at beaches as though I'm a one-woman research project, and the more I learn, the more astonished (and embarrassed) I am to discover about Scotland's beaches. It is the forestry commission who have taken the lead in recreation integration, and as far as most seaside councils are concerned, disabled access toilets and a couple of guest houses with ground floor bedrooms is good enough for now. They don't seem to be actively avoiding the isssue or anything so malign; it just seems as though it simply hasn't occured to them that people with drawbacks like triplets in a pushchair or a temporarily broken leg, to hidden disabilities like blindness, might want to be able to get down to the sea for a swim, or at least have a wee paddle!

There are some noticable exceptions around Scotland, and even Loch Leven has an access platform for disabled fisherman and a boat they can use, but as the capital city of the entire country, we should be leading the way with our beach. There are many people with spectacular hopes and plans for this stretch of coast, but we need to start with the basics and work up from there, for the local quality of life and the tourists trade alike, and this can't just be left to the council. We already have a head start in our long smooth promenade (apart from the kerbs, which I'm sure will be sorted soon) ramp acess to the pubs, to the Turkish Baths, the cafe/chippie and the restaurant along the prom.

Well, I'm off to look at the examples of an eco-friendly pathway using recycled tyres, and also one stretch of this-used-to-be-rainforest-look-at-the-beautiful-wood-you-can-almost-hear-the-monkeys mahogany decking. If you have seen or used any good designs whilst on your hols tell us here! For all we know there may be some useful engineers and carpenters lurking in Porty who could give us useful hints and advice, and maybe even knock something together for us : )

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 06 Aug 2006, 15:54

One of the District Councils in Devon are in the process of experimenting with a temporary rubber matting across their sand to give wheelchair and pushchair access to the beach. They mentioned earlier that there was a chance that someone would be donating the materials to them FREE so I have contacted them for information and feedback. Fingers crossed that they reply soon!

With the possible exception of Barra, whose sand is so wheel-friendly that even aircraft can use it, there has been an inovative range of solutions coming to light. At one end of the scale, local volunteers (I'm not sure if they mean volunteering amateur builders or just the cub and brownie groups on a creative day out..) have built slipways and pathways with donated recycled materials, and at the other extreme (usually abroad)there have been the most arty and high-tech solutions designed by award-winning engineers that incorporate everything from multi-tide levels, powered floating platforms, hoists and pulleys. Much as I love the idea of a proper jetty with accessible canoes and a direct link back up through Porty to the Forth and Clyde canal system, I think that to be realistic we are actually aiming towards the other end of the scale

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 06 Aug 2006, 15:59

I've just realised that this should probably be in the Portobello Matters section as it is such a serious structural issue..

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 06 Aug 2006, 16:15

My child would just love to be able to take her wheelchair on the sand and then to go for a paddle in the sea that would just be wonderfull.

I can just see her face light up now

As it is we have to take the sand to her

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 06 Aug 2006, 16:43

Izzie wrote:My child would just love to be able to take her wheelchair on the sand and then to go for a paddle in the sea that would just be wonderfull.

I can just see her face light up now

As it is we have to take the sand to her

Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to go for a paddle! It makes me wonder just how many wheelchair users here who just accept that Porty beach isn't the place for them and go somewhere else. There are wheelchair athletes who train around here, and are so fit they can probably climb mountains but even they can't defy Porty sand..

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 06 Aug 2006, 18:39

If there is a way to let this happen,think the kids at seaview restpite unit would be very gratefull.

As you say people in wheelchairs are very fit,my child has won lots of gold medals for swimming and loves water,but still has never been for a paddle in the sea

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 06 Aug 2006, 19:50

I agree that we should be doing much more in Edinburgh to make the beach accessible to people in wheelchairs. Marya has already promised to bring this up at the next CC meeting and she will certainly have my support. Rapunzell, maybe you would like to come along to the next meeting on Monday 28 August to put forward the case yourself and present your findings into how other communities have overcome this problem?

Denise · Post by **Denise** » 07 Aug 2006, 11:37

I think this should definitely be in Portobello matters. I'm sure the council has an obligation to provide access for all, where possible, under the recent legislation.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 07 Aug 2006, 15:35

Agreed on both counts.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 07 Aug 2006, 18:21

Ok Bob, have PMd you about the meeting : )

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 07 Aug 2006, 18:36

As we are now in Porty Matters I should be more serious with my name. Irl it is Morag Edward.

The Evening News have shown an interest in taking this up as a story but I'm not sure where or how to go with that avenue. I don't want to publicise too much in the way of past incompetence, failures, ommissions or general ignorance of my own city's council and tourist industry. It's not even as though we should need to use that tactic any more in order to motivate the council, as under this new access legislation, the council is duty-bound to provide the things* that we need, and so is no doubt already very keen to assist : )

*It's the nature of those 'things' that particularly interests me. My own mission is to ensure that we design/choose a prompt temporary access surface (while a permanant structure is being built in time for next year's tourist influx) and that it _suits__wheelchairs_, and a sensible budget, unlike certain inflatedly expensive arty committee-heavy plans that have been inflicted on good intentions in the past. For example, I am not the only person to have fallen off an incorrectly installed 'specially designed wheelchair-friendly kerb' in this city.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 07 Aug 2006, 19:34

The DDA legistlation, to a large extent, hinges on what can be considered "reasonable" as far as steps go to make a service or facility accessible. To that extent a quick & cheap, if not necessarily ideal solution, probably has greater weight than an expensive one. The more complex a solution the more it can be argued to be unreasonable.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 07 Aug 2006, 21:03

seanie wrote:The DDA legistlation, to a large extent, hinges on what can be considered "reasonable" as far as steps go to make a service or facility accessible. To that extent a quick & cheap, if not necessarily ideal solution, probably has greater weight than an expensive one. The more complex a solution the more it can be argued to be unreasonable.

Yes, if we can bypass any swanky or overly-ambitous ideas then we will be fast, cheap and basic, and that will definately come within the spirit of guidelines, as well as appealing to the financiers : )
.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 08 Aug 2006, 16:49

Where can I find out details and measurements regarding the prom and the entrances? I do have a tape measure but was hoping for a faster route to information here..

Does anyone know how the prom is and how many groynes there are down to the sea along the prom? How many entrances to the beach are there from the prom and are there records of distances from each entrance to each of the high and low tide marks? I know tides can vary wildly but the average annual distance will do. It sounds like the sort of things someone must have taken note of over the years, even just as part of keeping an eye on the escaping sand

Thanks!

Post by **wangi** » 09 Aug 2006, 10:51

Six groynes, 280m apart (you know, roughly) - from the 1:25000 OS map, it also has the mean high and low water springs.

The maps on the council planning portal also include the groynes and high and low water marks along with a high level of detail of the Prom. You can see the major entrances to the beach, but not the minor ones.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 09 Aug 2006, 15:00

Thanks guys; that should help with some of the beach descriptions. I will hopefully soon have a selection of photos of the ramp gradient and stretch of sand nearest me, though I'm not so keen on being the subject matter for the shots demonstrating the 'hurtling down ramp', 'break descent by landing on face in sand' and 'this is how deep the soft sand is' aspects.. Usually I prefer to be photographing the sunsets

Scottish Natural Heritage are keen to share their experience of building slipways and walkways across sand on their beachy nature reserves. Apparently there is one across the beach at St Cyrus, though the photos on their website don't show the access surface itself. They have already pointed out a few things about the needs for maintenance along the part of the walkway that runs between the high and low tide marks as far as slipperyness and seaweed goes, but they have recently found a very good non-slip surface, more info to follow.

For those now so inspired by the prospect of getting to into the sea that they want to try all sorts of new activities; here is a little something I found earlier:

http://www.wheelyboats.org

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 09 Aug 2006, 15:11

East Devon District Council responded immediately with information on their own plans for beach access and links to those who might help further. They are considering the possibilities of re-using heavy rubber surfaces from the mining industry as walkways across the sands - someone there has certainly been thinking innovatively!
More info to follow.

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 10 Aug 2006, 18:40

Can I help in any way?????????

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 11 Aug 2006, 14:58

Izzie wrote:Can I help in any way?????????

Yes please! You are a great contact for the kids in wheelchairs at your daughter's school and through them will probably hear of any beaches they've been able to get to on holiday etc, not to mention spotting relieved parents who have found new coastal places they can risk going to on family days out. We need their insider knowledge

Especially if they have photographic evidence!

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 11 Aug 2006, 15:27

I could put something in the SNIP mag,and ask for help.
This goes out to all the parents who attend the sick kids.
This will reach more parents.
If you write what you want put in it,I will try and get it put in.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 11 Aug 2006, 22:11

Izzie wrote:I could put something in the SNIP mag,and ask for help.
This goes out to all the parents who attend the sick kids.
This will reach more parents.
If you write what you want put in it,I will try and get it put in.

That's a great idea; I've been reading some of the articles 'Snippets' has online and it sounds like the sort of thing they might be interested in including, for the staff as well as the parents and kids.

I'm trying to write an article for 'The Portobello Reporter' in case they are interested in this project too, but after all the info that came in this afternoon I now need to completely rewrite it!

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 15 Aug 2006, 21:37

We now have some good photos of the construction of the wooden walkway at Yellowcraig beach (thanks to Duncan of East Lothian Coastal Ranger Service) but I don't know how to post them here. More on them later!

It has been encouraging to discover how many groups and areas are taking a keen interest in this project, and I've still not gone right through the list yet! The odd thing is that while many Scottish beaches, both resort and rural, have made very good efforts to enable access; it is only to the sand and not to the water. Even the strict Blue Flag requirements state merely 'beach access' which has been almost universally interpreted as access to the sand and not the water, despite other 'beach' requirements meaning both sand and water. This means that Porty beach may accidentally become a national leader for accessibility and inclusion even though it is no-where near Blue Flag status.

Did I mention there are a lot of strange things about Porty beach?!

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 17 Aug 2006, 13:47

Ok, the accessibility starts with the entrances along the prom, and this can be sorted quite cheaply, easily and, best of all, quickly even before we get down to the finely tuned civil engineering that will provide at least one boardwalk to the water

Specifics aside (I haven't photographed or measured anything) there are several concrete ramps with potential. All that needs to be altered is the gradient of each, and of course that means each will be longer to allow for the more gentle incline. That in itself allows access further into the beach so the rewards are doubled immediately. Builders with spirit levels and concrete should be the main ingredients, and so avoiding any expensive design consultancy.

I doubt the project would begin with the remodelling of the entire stretch of prom entrances so our initial aim should be to alter the ramps at the furthest points North (the King's Road ramp) South (Joppa) and the middle (Bath Street or the Turkish Baths), and we can progress from there. Shout now if you think this isn't enough for an initial goal.

I had thought that the immediate second aim (ie, still within this year) would be establishing water acess from all three of these improved concrete ramps, but it might be better to start with one central one and take a few months to gather feedback, both from users and also from surveying wind and water action on the construction over the winter months. This is only my opinion so please leap in to contradict at any point.

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 18 Aug 2006, 20:08

I have often been given the impression that Edinburgh forgets that it has at least one beach, but having read through a tourism website checking up on the level of detail they give for disabled access (or not) to the beaches around Edinburgh, I find that Portobello beach isn't listed. Not an absence of access or detail; I mean a complete absence of village and beach at all!

Look to see if you can find Portobello: http://www.edinburgh.org/beaches/

Crammond, Gullane, Yellowcraigs and Aberlady are listed - but Porty has apparently vanished into the sea fog : )

-----------------
Morag Edward

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 20 Aug 2006, 22:27

I'd like to take this opportunity to extend a large thank-you to the people and organisations who have already shown interest in this project and sent everything from enthusiasm to expert advice and offers of professional assistance and possible funding.

Scottish Natural Heritage, The Forestry Commission, East Lothian Coastal Rangers, The Paths for All Partnership, East Devon Council and ASCS have all offered advice, suggested further contacts, shown support, and patiently answered my endless questions - above and beyond the call of duty!

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 23 Aug 2006, 12:45

Does anyone have good photographs of the entrances and sands at the Southern end of the promenade? I don't need them to include a person with tape measure and stripey stick (unless you want to) but something that gives a clear indication of the slope and sand would be great. Thanks!

rapunzell · Post by **rapunzell** » 27 Aug 2006, 21:34

I don't know how to transfer info from another thread, but we now have some excellent photos of the Joppa end of the prom courtesy of Wangi! (see Porty Online)

The proposal for enabling beach access is going before Porty's own Council tomorrow night, and I am looking forward to hearing what everyone there thinks about it.

Something we should do is create a project website to make it all more public and give a useful point of contact between interested parties, enabling suggestions, advice, concerns etc. It could show photos, plans, trials and schemes and their success, failure and alterations as we progress (or don't progress - which would be important news in itself)

The possibility of reusing mining coveyor belts as beach pathways was suggested in Devon, though I'm still waiting to hear back from the councillor who proposed it in their report. I have heard from a local here who remembered reusing the mining conveyor belts to give the kids huge play slides down the bings, so if the sections were known for their slipperiness, then perhaps they were not such a good plan after all..

As a variation on that idea of a rubber pathway, there is a company in England who manufacture heavy duty pathway sections from recycled rubber tyres so I have contacted them for further information, and will hopefully have more news soon.

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 28 Aug 2006, 17:57

Hope all goes well tonight and you will tell us some good news in the morning

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 29 Aug 2006, 11:56

Rapunzell wrote: ....we now have some excellent photos of the Joppa end of the prom courtesy of Wangi!

And here are the links to those photos;

Wangi wrote:I went out and took some shots when I got home tonight - can of beer in one hand, camera in another! Managed to get all the entrances from the east end of the Prom (or south if you will!) along to the community garden:

At the circular steps: 1
Outside 37 Esplanade Terrace: 1, 2
Outside 16 Esplanade Terrace: 1, 2
Outside 9 Esplanade Terrace: 1, 2
Bottom of Morton Street: 1, 2
Outside 76 Promenade: 1, 2
Outside Hamilton Lodge: 1, 2
Opposite community garden: 1, 2

These are just the low-res shots straight out of the camera. Let me know if want them at higher resolution?

One thing to note is that level of the sand really does vary a lot - a couple of feet easy depending on the time of the year!

L/

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 29 Aug 2006, 12:22

rapunzell wrote:The proposal for enabling beach access is going before Porty's own Council tomorrow night, and I am looking forward to hearing what everyone there thinks about it.

Last night's CC Meeting lasted longer than anticipated, leaving a frustratingly short length of time ( despite it being placed high on the Agenda) to fully present your findings Rapunzell, However, I made sure that the topic was raised, albeit in an abridged version of your presentation and am pleased to say that Robert Gatliffe, Chair of the Community Council, expressed positive support for the campaign and requested that I email everyone on the Community Council the full text of your report. For those without computer access, I provided some paper copies.

It was also agreed that I should present further details to the next meeting of the Community Council on Sept. 25th . This may be of special interest to others, such as Izzie, who may wish to attend and help call for the fullest support possible from our local Councils.

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

Portobello Beach: disabled access project

Portobello Beach: disabled access project

Learning curves

Portobello Matters!

Measurements wanted

Teamwork