Underage drinking + associated noise/vandalism

Penny Calder · Post by **Penny Calder** » 04 Jun 2006, 15:52

Have you been disturbed by the kids on the beach recently?
Last night (June 3) about 50 kids (aged between about 12-16 by the look of them) built a bonfire and made a heck of a racket on Joppa beach. No-one in our block of houses got any sleep before 3.30am.
There's no doubt they were drinking as they left a large number of bottles and broken glass at the bonfire site.
This has been happening increasingly frequently recently and the numbers involved are also rising. Is this just happening at the Joppa end of the prom, or is it a bigger problem?
I think that the situation is getting more urgent as the numbers have grown from 12-15 to over 50 over the last couple of years and most of that increase is in the last few months.
I for one don't want the beach to end up as the under-age drinking den for east Edinburgh - and all the damage to property and cars that happens in their wake on the way back. We have suffered similar scenarios in the past.
If we all pick up the phone to the police early on, when these gatherings are starting up, we have a better chance of nipping them in the bud. Apparently under the Antisocial Act 2004, the police have the power to disperse noisy gatherings and target persistent offenders for further action, so we don't have to wait until our sleep is disturbed.

Post by **wangi** » 04 Jun 2006, 16:19

Penny, last night was fine for us (far end of the beach at Joppa), but I saw them and the bonfire while walking along the Prom in the evening.

It was Friday evening we had problems and the Police playing the old game of chasing after them trying to get the bottles off them...

But yes, it is kids from all over Edinburgh coming down to the beach.

And I used to think Scots, by and large, weren't racist - living near to the Chinese and hearing the abuse they get, and urinating on their wall...

DG · Post by DG » 05 Jun 2006, 08:03

This sounds like a bit of a pain for you, Penny. It's a shame that the beach is used in this way and it has over time made me reluctant to have a walk along the prom later in the evening. I hope more people complain about this if it continues to be problem.

DG

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:25

I know what you mean, we were walking the dog up Bath Street earlish last night and bunch of youths coming down the other way, shouting and generally being pains in the neck, doesn't make for nice atmostphere.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:43

As this is a Portobello-wide issue, I have edited the title of this thread to encompass all instances of youth-related disturbances in the area.

Penny did you phone the Police? What response did you get?

Penny Calder · Post by **Penny Calder** » 06 Jun 2006, 11:15

Yes, I rang the police and 1.30 & 2.30 am and the incident was logged, but at that time of night, I suspect they have their hands full trying to stop the big brothers of these kids in much more violent confrontations up town.
I think the trick is to contact the police early on, as soon as the group starts congregating. so they have a chance to act before they have to tackle more violent incidents. This is mainly a noise and nuisence problem and unpleasant as it is to lose sleep and minor damage to property, probably the most serious damage being done is to the livers and tangled lives of the participants themselves.
I'm also going to start trying to take digital time coded photos of the participants if this happens again so we build up a record of the regulars.

Gizmo · Post by **Gizmo** » 06 Jun 2006, 11:40

Hi

Just wondering if you called 999 or Portobello police station? We have called Portobello police station a couple of times late at night when people have been fighting in our street

and they have always been fairly quick to respond. So if you did dial 999, maybe next time (hopefully there won't be a next time!) you could try the police station?

Post by **wangi** » 06 Jun 2006, 12:08

Every time we've tried calling Portobello Police station at night you get stuck in a call queue for ever... and when somebody does answer it's actually police from Craigmillar who come out for the call.

And Penny, is that graffitti on the wall at the bottom of the Lower Joppa houses along the Prom from that night?

L/

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 06 Jun 2006, 12:22

Gizmo, what Penny describes doesn't sound like an emergency, which is what the 999 number is intended for. Whichever police station you call within the L&B area, you will be re-routed to the Force Communications Centre at Bilston. Calls are logged and graded according to priority. How long they take to respond depends partly on the call grading and partly on how busy they are.

Sounds like Penny is being pro-active in logging incidents and I would be encouraging my neighbours to do likewise and starting up a local Neighbourhood Watch scheme, if there isn't one already.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 06 Jun 2006, 13:43

Penny Calder wrote: I'm also going to start trying to take digital time coded photos of the participants if this happens again so we build up a record of the regulars.

Does anyone know the legality of this? It may be an urban myth, but I heard of a chap in the Hamilton Drive area who was warned by Police, after he photographed teenagers who were vandalising a car.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 06 Jun 2006, 14:01

Yes, no doubt it is an infringement of these young people's civil liberties, a contravention of their human rights and inadmissible in court. There are probably data protection issues, FOI issues...

Penny, what were you thinking of?

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 06 Jun 2006, 14:03

There is a council phone number for ASB sorry cant remeber it but I have used it.They came very quickly and soon sorted out the problem and it has not returned.

I also heard the photos were not legal

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Jun 2006, 14:44

Marya wrote:
Penny Calder wrote: I'm also going to start trying to take digital time coded photos of the participants if this happens again so we build up a record of the regulars.
Does anyone know the legality of this? It may be an urban myth, but I heard of a chap in the Hamilton Drive area who was warned by Police, after he photographed teenagers who were vandalising a car.

It is illegal. We had an incidence of vandalism on our work property. A neighbour videoed the whole thing and was cautioned by the Police for doing so. Its a bit like Brian McCrows suggested beach web-cams.

nads · Post by **nads** » 11 Jun 2006, 16:17

walking back from the Dalriada last night at about 10.30pm at least 3 bonfires with about 15-20 people around each all looked underage and were swigging from bottles and cans then rolling around drunk, couldnt believe it, I was with my hb and my mum and dad and I am early 30's but was shocked at the swearing coming from them!!. Can imagine why people feel insecure walking along the prom now!

Mate of Marya · Post by **Mate of Marya** » 11 Jun 2006, 21:44

Any problems regarding youth related anti-social behaviour, phone the Youth Action Team on 666 2222.

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 12 Jun 2006, 05:56

That was the number

When we had the trouble it was them that sorted it for us

We found the police were hopeless all we got told was they have to go somewhere

Post by **wangi** » 12 Jun 2006, 09:18

Why does the police switchboard not connect you through to YAT when you phone?!?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 12 Jun 2006, 10:51

MoM - 666 2222 is the main switchboard number for Howdenhall Police Station. If you call this number, or any other Police Station in the L&B Force area, you will be re-directed to the Force Communiciations Centre.

The Youth Action Team responsible for Portobello is based at Craigmillar Police Station and run by Sergeant Bowie. YATs are made up of serving police officers and partly funded by the Council. The YAT for the Portobello/Craigmillar area comprises of just 6 officers.

If you want to report a 'youth disturbance' you should just call the police on the number you normally use, bearing in mind you will be put through to the FCC in any case. This will ensure the most appropriate and fastest response and all calls are logged. For more general enquiries about the Youth Action Team and the role it plays in Portobello, you should ask to be put through to Sergeant Bowie, who will be happy to discuss your concerns.

So the message is, if you are suffering from this problem - don't put up with it. Phone the Police at the outset and keep phoning. All of these logged calls will show up in the stats and this allows resources to be directed at the 'hot spots'.

Mate of Marya · Post by **Mate of Marya** » 12 Jun 2006, 14:43

Sorry Bob,
A neighbour issued this number to us as "the street" was being plagued by regular youth disturbances. I must admit to never actually using it!!!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 12 Jun 2006, 14:57

No need to apologise. It's clear that there is a lot of mis-information and misunderstanding among the general public about how the system works, and that has to be partly the fault of L&B Police for not getting the message across.

I would like to see the police using forums like this to communicate directly with people. The Chief Constable was involved in a (albeit carefully managed) web chat in February and the Force has its own cruiser liaison officer who posts on the Edinburgh Cruisers forum, so maybe they are starting to move in this direction.

Libby · Post by **Libby** » 13 Jun 2006, 19:26

Good evening all, Libby here, my friend and i regularly attend the ELDC Meetings, the last one that we attended was just 2 weeks ago, Chief Inspector Donny McKinnon was in attendance and he gave a presentation about the YAT Team.

A gentleman asked the question about when youths were hanging about outside his house and they were becoming quiet abusive with there language and that they were hitting the Ball of his Car nearly causing Damage.

He informed Inspector Donny that he did indeed phone the YAT Team to have them moved on.

Donny response, "It was not the YATS job to move them on, there job is to interact with the youth, he also said "it is not the Polices Job to move them on" it was up to the Council" personally he feels that the youth of today are given a raw deal.

The gentleman in question informed him that the Police have the powers to disperse Gangs of youths and any police force that is refusing to do this can have part of there funding stopped.

The gentleman informed him, that he would be reporting him for not supporting the orders that are in place.

Personally i have never heard so much rubbish in my life, the police they finish there duties and then go home but the decant citizens of Edinburgh who just want a bit piece and quiet have to put up with it long after they have gone home.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 13 Jun 2006, 20:06

I don't think the Police do have the arbitrary power to "move them on". I think it can only be done if a specificed area is designated , at certain times, for a certain period.

And to "move them on" is only likely to shift the problem elsewhere. It's not exactly ideal as a solution.

Libby · Post by **Libby** » 14 Jun 2006, 09:15

seanie, the police do have these powers, although they admit that they don't use them because it is a lot of paper work for 5 minutes, like you i agree moving them on does not solve the problem it only moves the trouble to the next corner.

Here is the funny bit, Donny McKinnon is fully supportive of having youth Zones, sort of like a wee bush shelter brightly painted with some seats, now some people would say that is a good idea and some would say not

AH ha, how would you feel if one of these youth zones were put up out side your house, or your local park, look at the controversy that is being caused by Portobello high school possibly being built on the Golf course.

Imagine the uproar if they said AH! to hell with the school we shall build a couple of youth zones bang in the middle of the golf course.

I have a very big green space beside my house and i wouldn't be to bothered if they put a couple there as a pilot scheme, if you think about it, they have to be put some where to see if they are going to be a success or not.

Libby

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 14 Jun 2006, 13:04

I had a look here for information on Police powers. The guidance on â€œDispersal of Groupsâ€

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 14 Jun 2006, 13:18

Seanie, you can be so annoying when you look up rules and regulations.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 14 Jun 2006, 18:08

Having read more on at http://www.antisocialbehaviourscotland.com it seems the first point of contact regarding anti-social , as opposed to criminal, behaviour should really be the Local Authority rather than the Police;

Who should I contact if Iâ€™m a victim of antisocial behaviour?
You should contact your local authority. They are best placed to provide local solutions to tackling antisocial behaviour.

Who should you contact?
Your local authority and the police both have a responsibility to tackle antisocial behaviour. If you have an antisocial behaviour problem you should call your local authority , but the police have a role to play too.

Who do I turn to for help?
That depends on the nature of the problem. Clearly serious crimes should be reported to the police. But many incidents of antisocial behaviour are more appropriately dealt with by local councils. The council will be avble to advise you whether to call the police.

Whilst it appears to be down to the Police to issue a formal notice, the overall process seems to be the responsibility of the Local Authority.

Under the Act, your local authority is required to prepare a strategy to tackle antisocial behaviour in your area.

Each local authority must draw up a strategy that tackles the particular problems caused by antisocial behaviour in that Council area. The range of the problems and the range of people responsible for those problems may differ greatly from area to area.

And indeed Edinburgh Council have a Anti-social Behaviour Team;

Antisocial Behaviour Investigation Team
Tel: 0131 529 7050
The team carries out investigations into all types of antisocial behaviour, working with victims to gather evidence. They also act as professional witnesses and provide out of hours and weekend services

If Chief Inspector Donny McKinnon was suggesting to the gentleman that he'd be better off contacting the council, then he was probably giving him the appropriate advice.

Libby · Post by **Libby** » 14 Jun 2006, 19:13

Yes you were right he was giving the gentleman in question the right information, i have had cause to phone this number, i had a group of 5 youths outside my house for 4 consecutive night, they had a sporty car, you know the ones with the soft tops. They were going to the next door neighbours house for the 4 night at the same time, 1.45am as they have a young 15 year old girl that likes to think she is the centre of attention.

I went to the neighbour and asked that she put a stop to this as i had to be up at 7am to get the kids to school then toddle of to my work.

As i said, i asked nicely to no avail so i called this number explaining that he was constantly revving the car, playing loud music and being loud in general.

You know what they told me, listen to it for 1 hour and if the noise had been going on for exactly 1 hour, call them back and they would try to get someone out as they only have 1 team for the whole of Edinburgh

maybe i should apply for a job with them as i am up most night anyway i would not have to worry about loosing any sleep, that way they would have 2 to cover the whole of the city

Libby

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 21 Jun 2006, 16:55

From yesterday's EN:

Police search for yobs after street attack

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 24 Jun 2006, 19:43

What does it take for the police to come out?????

I've had to endure two coke cans and a plastic Irn Bru bottle being thrown through my open window - sticky spray everywhere...

I phoned 45 minutes ago "Someone will come along............." (Heard that before and before and before). Still waiting.

Now the little toe rags are still fooling about on the Prom and I'm distressed and VERY angry...

If I was on my own, I'd be afraid to go outside at the moment.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 24 Jun 2006, 21:11

Exactly 2 hours later - a car arrived, the two cops wandered along Prom for a minute then went into the grounds (how grand!!) of the house opposite - got another call and went off. Way too late.

The toe rags had just gone off to pastures new. Knowing full well they'd got off with their bad and, worse, dangerous behaviour.

bearcub · Post by **bearcub** » 24 Jun 2006, 21:19

Sorry to hear that Poppy, not pleasant when anything like that happens, especially when you get next to no response from the police.

Don't know if it was connected, but I've just come back from dropping ecm and Sandra off at the Moonwalk, and there were 3 police cars racing down Bath St with their lights flashing. Was about 20-25 mins ago.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 24 Jun 2006, 21:28

bearcub wrote:Sorry to hear that Poppy, not pleasant when anything like that happens, especially when you get next to no response from the police.

Don't know if it was connected, but I've just come back from dropping ecm and Sandra off at the Moonwalk, and there were 3 police cars racing down Bath St with their lights flashing. Was about 20-25 mins ago.

Probably was connected as bet that was why they went off - nice to to know that they do actually respond to some calls!!

sconegrrl · Post by **sconegrrl** » 15 Sep 2006, 23:43

As I've just mentioned in the main bit of the forum,I ended up having to post on here about some car vandalism tonight as I couldn't get through to the police and it's not exactly a 999 situation. This doesn't seem right at all.

I do appreciate that there are more serious things for the police to deal with than bonfires on the beach and juice bottles being chucked through livingroom windows, but these things are very upsetting for the folks who have to put up with it.

Not only is it annoying, but I feel there is an undercurrent of intimidation - who feels comfortable confronting people committing these antisocial acts? On 4 seperate occassions recently, I have seen men (young and old) urinating in the high street IN THE AFTERNOON. It seems to be too much trouble to finish their cigarettes and go back inside the Portobello Bar. It's completely disgusting and offensive, but it seems that we just have to turn a blind eye to this behaviour.

I only seem to come on here when I'm moaning about something, but I feel strongly that Portobello is a great place and deserves to be kept that way.

bouncie_kiwi · Post by **bouncie_kiwi** » 06 Apr 2007, 13:39

Porty wrote:
Marya wrote:
Penny Calder wrote: I'm also going to start trying to take digital time coded photos of the participants if this happens again so we build up a record of the regulars.
Does anyone know the legality of this? It may be an urban myth, but I heard of a chap in the Hamilton Drive area who was warned by Police, after he photographed teenagers who were vandalising a car.
It is illegal. We had an incidence of vandalism on our work property. A neighbour videoed the whole thing and was cautioned by the Police for doing so. Its a bit like Brian McCrows suggested beach web-cams.

This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why oh why are there so many LAWS nowadays that PROTECT CRIMINALS!!!!????

My friend and myself (both insomniacs) were bored one night, and decided to go for a quiet walk down the beach at around 2.30am, thinking there would be nobody around.
Wrong. A crew of neds were all about "shkoosh me HUV YAE GOAT A LIGHT?" erm, no i do not have a light which was then replied to as "Fokkan Bitched MAAAHN" as me and my friend attempted to maneouve our way through them, despite their best efforts to shoulderbash us "accidently" walking away, we were then confronted with the attempted insult "fokkan DYKESH" which i assume was some form of presumption about our sexual orientation. How sad.
Only a mother could love 'em.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 06 Apr 2007, 17:45

Wonder if some are the way they are because their mother DONT love them.
I'd be black affronted if any of mine were behaving the way I've seen some teenagers act

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

Underage drinking + associated noise/vandalism

Underage drinking + associated noise/vandalism

Youth distrubance

Re: Youth distrubance

Re: Youth distrubance

Chief Inspector

Disperse

I agree

Re: Youth distrubance