New building at bottom of Bath Street

[Maria]

Unfortunately due to my complete incompetence I managed to delete most of this thread when I tried to move it to this new forum. What follows is a copy of the first page of postings. My apologies again.
Discussion on this topic continues on Portobello Matters.



 

   

Susan
Guest







Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 8:41 pm    Post subject: New Building at foot of Bath Street



Hi,

I am concerned that the new building being constructed at the foot of Bath Street is being built over the boundaries of the site which was purchased by the developers.

It would appear that we are going to lose part of the width of the Promenade and part of the Marlborough Mansions site to this development.

I know several of the residents' of the adjacent buildings are very unhappy and have asked Cllr. Marshall and Building Control to investigate.

I think it would be wiser to stop infringements before the building is erected!

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nicky
portyperson



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 17
Location: somewhere near the coast...


Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 9:11 pm    Post subject: new building at foot of Bath St



Hi Susan

I read your post with interest. I live further down in Mentone Ave but have heard rumblings about the new building at foot of Bath St. I am disappointed to see that the construction causing general traffic chaos as very large vehicles trundle up the narrow streets with their loads causing traffic and pedestrians to move or be crushed.

This email copied below might be of interest. Cllr Marshall sent it on 11 Nov last year and it addresses just the problem you mention re boundaries.

Regards

Nicky
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EMAIL FROM L MARSHALL TO HIS MAILING LIST......



Dear All,
I have been in contact with Paul Gowdy, Development Manager with Gregor Properties Limited, regarding their proposed schedule of work with respect to 28 Promenade (the former "Grannies Attic"). Local folk in Straiton Place were also worried that drawings of the work site seemed to show an infringement into their back greens - an issue I also raised with Mr Gowdy.
Please find copied below an e-mail response I have just received from Mr Gowdy.
I will, of course, keep you informed of any further developments regarding this important site as I receive notification of them.

Lawrence

* * * * *

Mr Lawrence Marshall,

Please accept my apologises for not replying to you sooner than now. I
can inform you that we are intending to commence the Demolition Works on
Monday 18th November 02. Prior to this date we will be preparing Bath
Street and the Promenade with safety fencing. This will be at the end
of this week.

For your information I will send you a copy of the Pre Construction
Programme which will be finalized by the end of this week.

With regards to any infringement on the back greens of Straiton Place I
would say that our site boundary fence will be along the outside edge of
the Rear green wall on the recreation areas and will follow the line of
the building towards Bath Street.

I trust that the information herein will allow you to answer any
concerns that the local residents may have. Should you require any
further information please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards


Paul Gowdy
Development Manager

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Susan
Guest







Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 10:07 pm    Post subject: New Building at foot of Bath Street



Hi Nicky,

Thanks for adding the letters.

However, whilst the problems have been brought to the attention Cllr. Marshall there still would appear to be infringements taking place.

I think it needs attention before much more work is undertaken or they will be at the point of no return!

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Lawrence Marshall
Guest


Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 4:24 pm    Post subject: 28 Promenade



Various local residents have been in contact with me recently regarding a possible infringment onto the Promenade of the new building at 28 Promenade ("Grannies Attic" as was).
The Council twice turned down planning applications on this site but the second was granted around a year ago on Appeal to the Scottish Executive. Basically, the existing 2-storey structure was to be retained and an aditional 3 modern-style storeys built on top.
The developer then argued that demolition was necessary to put in the foundations for this bigger building - this was no doubt true and hasn't been contested by the Council.
However, as regards reconstructing the ground and first floors we have been of the view that this should be in stone. The developer has argued that the previous ground floor was actually wood made to look like stone and that the the stonework on the first floor was only held together by the paintwork over it. He also believes that, even were we to insist on stone for the first floor, he would have the right to paint over it. Basically, the developer is offering to at least construct the ground floor in natural stone (including the eastern elevation which increases what was thought to be in stone before) while possibly leaving stone out of the first floor and covering this in a resin coating to go with what will be above.
I have raised these matters with the Planning Officer in charge of this project - Stephen Dickson, tel. 529 3901, e-mail: stephen.dickson@edinburgh.gov.uk
More recently, concerns have been raised that the new building is protruding onto the Promenade beyond the building line of the old Grannies Attic. This would be a material breach of the planning permission granted by the Reporter on behalf of the Scottish Executive and I have also raised this matter with some urgency with Stephen Dickson.
I hope that I can soon get a response back from our officials on all these issues - and I'll post this here as soon as I get it.

Lawrence Marshall

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Susan
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:27 pm    Post subject: New Building at the foot of Bath Street



Hi Lawrence,

Thanks for your input. We wait with interest to see what happens next.

It's strange that 29 folk have viewed this posting but only three have anything to say about it here.
Lots of people are talking about this.

Hope there are some more views added!

Susan

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angigael
portyperson



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 20
Location: Portobello


Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 28 Promenade




Lawrence Marshall wrote:

The Council twice turned down planning applications on this site but the second was granted around a year ago on Appeal to the Scottish Executive. Basically, the existing 2-storey structure was to be retained and an aditional 3 modern-style storeys built on top.
Lawrence Marshall


I guess what I don't understand is how come the application was turned down by the Council [amd local residents] and then granted on appeal by the Scottish Executive. Does the latter give or have to give any reasons for doing this?

The lack of information about the process or outcome seriously undermines any faith I have in the system. Why bother with democracy in the first place, etc...

Angi
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Carol


Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 65
Location: portobello


Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:44 pm    Post subject: 28 Promenade and The Scottish Executive



Hello

There was no right of appeal - their decision was final.

I felt sure, when it went to appeal that the Scottish Executive would not allow such a modern building to be placed in a conservation area. The site certainly needed developed and I expected the compromise would be to allow the building but on the grounds that it be made to look old and in harmony with the other victorian buildings in the area.

How wrong I was.

I'm left thinking that it might have been better if the European Parliament or Westminster had more of a say on these matters.

What else do the Scottish Executive decide on my behalf/against my wishes?


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Peter F
Guest







Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:04 am    Post subject: New Building



Can anyone tell me what is to be built at the bottom of Bath Street?!

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Susan
Guest







Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:27 pm    Post subject: New Building at the foot of Bath Street



Hi,

There is a five storey block of luxury flats, with balconies being built, in a style that resembles a pile of Scotmid baskets.

Not in keeping with the conservation area in which it is being built.

Why is this allowed - we don't know.

My original post was because I think they are going over the boundaries of the site they purchased. They have infringed onto the Promenade.

If this is allowed, can I have a piece of Prom to build a house on and make lots of money?

Susan



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Peter F
Guest







Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:08 am    Post subject:



At least the flats will be an improvement on the "Grannies Attic" eyesore... shame joined up thinking couldn't be applied to the redevelopment of the prom and the land be used more sensitively.



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Gemini
portyobsessed



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 260
Location: Portobello


Posted: Mon May 05, 2003 11:26 am    Post subject:



Hi, New here - but have spoken to couple of follks regarding new build
at Bath Street, Living in Portobello and having and still suffering from the result of council Planning decisions, I would have thought that this case (where there are so many affected people) who are justly unhappy about this decision should in the first instance take their greivances forward to Susan Deacon (who is very approachable and one of those MSP's who appear to be in touch with their constituents) if she cannot resolve it, the next step is the City council Ombudsman- no joy then Scottish ParliamentaryOmbudsman,Scottish Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration , Scottish Standard Agency, Helen Liddlel, Scottish Secretary of State who presides of Planning Decisions, and of course there is the ECHR (European court of Human Rights) Article 8 Peaceful enjoyment of one's property, and lots more that may fit your criteria.
There is also the avenue within the Scottish Executive whereby a Petition can be raised on behalf of the Residents concerned - Susan Deacon can advise on that point.Would have thought that - Portobello Amenity Group or Portobello Community council would have assisted you, but sadly you live on the wrong side of the block - as we do.
This is not an easy road to go down, but I wish you well in your endevours.



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Susan
Guest







Posted: Mon May 05, 2003 9:00 pm    Post subject: New Building at the foot of Bath Street



Hi Gemini,

Thanks for adding your comments.

The original post was regarding the infringement onto the Promenade and other boundaries by the developer. (As outlined above).

Regarding the planning consent, it is my understanding that the City of Edinburgh Council refused planning permission but their decision was overturned by the Scottish Executive.

As the building is now under construction I think we have to accept that there is going to be a housing development on this site.
However, we do not have to accept the developers taking a piece of the Promenade, adjacent Marlborough Mansions site, Stration Place drying greens or indeed a strip of Bath Street.

I am hoping that now the elections are over that the re-elected representatives for this area can find time to sort this out.

Susan

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bellybabe
Guest







Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 8:56 am    Post subject:



I agree that it's absolutely disgusting that the Executive can override our elected representatives on the council just to suit their own need to keep builders happy. I am appalled that this eyesore was permitted in spite of the damaging effect it has on the residents, particularly the straiton place people, one of whom told me that his sister's bedroom window will now be blocked by a window from one of these new flats, not only destroying a sea view that might well have been a reason for buying property there in the first place but also meaning she has no privacy at all unless she blocks her window with blinds or curtains or whatever.

We can all guess what the illustrious and well paid executive decison makers would have to say if it was THEIR back garden being destroyed.

I was told recently that in a conservation area you are supposed to ask permission to erect a satellite dish, or railings that don't exactly match the originals, etc etc. But hey, if you want to build a five storey greenhouse and devalue everyone else's property, just go ahead.

Sorry for the rant but it makes my blood boil.

Paula

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Gemini
portyobsessed



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 260
Location: Portobello


Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 11:22 am    Post subject:



Hi Susan,

I have an understanding that the Scottish Executive's decision is not final and there is recourse for appeal to Scottish Exec Ombudsman and then to Helen Liddle 'Secy of State for Scotland' this avenue may give you some respite to at least have your concerns about the infringement of the building onto the Prom. As the building is only at foundation stage, I would suggest that you contact the Exec. maybe through Susan Deacon.

Another interesting Scenario that this throws up is : what Parking priviso has been put in place for the new residents? at the moment in Bath Street it is impossible to park at any time, the corner of Bath and Marlborough is impossible to turn on due to the vehicles parked right up to the corners. This is a nightmare for Residents and for the Public in general,children and the more senior of our community are at even greater risk!! I do not know if this has all been taken into consideration ?? which it should have been especially now when there MUST be two accesses for Emergency Vehicles such as Fire Appliances etc to access the street , more vehiular parking only increases the the risk to Public Safety, I will give you a couple of incidents which occurred in the street I live in. One of the elderly residents died, unfortunately due to the on street parking from the surrounding companies, the Hearse could not get parked outside the door, which in turn meant the coffin had to be carried to the other end of the street(it was particularly upsetting for his elderly wife and family) Another resident in the Street suffered a Brain hemmorage, yes again the ambulance could not get to the door with the vital equipment, they had to run from the other end of the street, another incident with the fire Brigade another fiasco, but I don't suppose that the Local representative who incidentally is well aware of the previous incidents in our street has advised you of the' Safety Issues'

I may be totally wrong, but the way I look at the situation in Portobello is that the Council take by way of Council Tax etc. throw up even more Appartment Blocks with no regard to the Residents concerns (as is the situation in Bath Street and where I live) to collect even more council Tax without providing the neccessary infrastructure to accommodate the added impact that ensues, we then have parking wardens on commission who let's face it make a killing in Portobello, with the revenue for this returning to the council coffers? they can't loose!!


I believe that the Powers that be granted permission for the old Woollies on Porty High Street to be demolished and turned into Flats, but apparently the rsidents of Adelphi Place are outraged that their street (narrow and congested as it is now) will be even more congested!! and rightly so!

One of the resders posted a message recently asking what the local representative's in this area are doing for the area, I am embroiled in a scenario with the council which dates back to 1985 and Council Representation since 1995/6!! with no end in sight.

My advice to anyone who lives in Portobello who has concerns regarding instances such as the aforementioned to go straight to the City of Edinburgh Council's Chief Executive, via the MSP, because basically that is the only way you will get directly to the correct Department without the usual fannying around with a squillion letters back and forth that occurs if you take any other route.

Apologies for such a protracted message, but we probably more than any other group of residents in Portobello know what it's like to bang our heads against a brick wall.

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Gemini
portyobsessed



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 260
Location: Portobello


Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 11:55 am    Post subject:



As an Adendum to my previous message, someone mentioned that privacy would be impaired should this block of flats be built.

1st off is that you have no right to a view
2 you do have a right to light (will this be infringed?)
3 you also have rights to privacy and the peacefull enjoyment of your home.

thought worth a mention.
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Susan
Guest







Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 8:33 pm    Post subject: New Building at the foot of Bath Street



Hi,

Thanks for adding your comments.

I hope adjacent property owners that are affected by the fenestration issues have contacted the appropriate bodies because they do have rights under existing property laws, a matter that they should take up with their solicitors.

I am awaiting a response from our elected representatives before throwing the issue of boundary infringement to a wider audience.

Susan
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Susan
Guest







Posted: Wed May 07, 2003 9:29 pm    Post subject: New Building at the foot of Bath Street



Here is the e mail I received from Cllr. Lawrence Marshall today.

I still dispute the measure of the infringement.



Susan,
Stephen Dickson from Planning and myself had a meeting on site with the architect and developer yesterday morning.
We discussed the building line and materials. Stephen Dickson wanted stone on the first floor of the Bath Street elevation (with 2 storeys of render above) but settled for stone only on the ground floor of the Promenade elevation (again with 2 storeys of render above). We also asked for stone on the eastern elevation - though how much is still subject to negotiation.
We thought the building line was too far forward - maybe by a foot. This need to be checked with respect to ordnance maps. The architect now concedes that one base is 150mm too far forward. I'll keep you posted on what Stephen Dickson makes of this.

Lawrence
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Carol
importy



Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 65
Location: portobello


Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 9:47 am    Post subject: Building at the foot of Bath Street.



Re: Stephen Dickson wanted, but settled for .....

I am concerned by the above statement. Think about it for a moment.

Read it a couple of times. Sums up this whole situation quite well.

Carol
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Carol
importy



Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 65
Location: portobello


Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 10:27 am    Post subject: Building at the foot of Bath Street



I would like to add to my posting above


Where ARE the conservation people?

Carol
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Guest








Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 3:05 pm    Post subject:



Carol

As you probably know, all local planning applications are carefully vetted on behalf of Portobello Community Council by Portobello Amenity Society. As this topic has generated a lot of interest I emailed a PAS member on 5 May to ask if someone would like to respond on behalf of the society to the various points raised. I have had no response to date but I can assure you that this matter has been given considerable discussion at recent CC meetings and I know that both PAS and our local councillors have raised objections and continue to carefully monitor developments.
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[bellybabe]

I was listening to some interesting talk about this building the other day, and I was told that it's already been broken into four times. On one of these occasions, the culprits managed to scale the scaffolding, break in, and steal the kitchen appliances from the fitted kitchens, apparently getting back down the scaffolding with them !

[Maria]

the culprits managed to scale the scaffolding, break in, and steal the kitchen appliances from the fitted kitchens, apparently getting back down the scaffolding with them !

Think they must have borrowed Epykat's helicopter! Either that or thy're built like the incredible hulk Should be easy to spot if that's the case!

[Epykat]

Think they must have borrowed Epykat's helicopter!

Ah yes! I thought the helipad was looking a bit bare! I take it the squint lifts weren't working when they had to go out the other way?

[Pal of Porty]

There were 2 guys selling ice lollies on the Prom today out of a domestic fridge. I wonder........................

[Maria]

They were selling ice lollies in February?! Did they have impressive muscles Pop?

[teddygirl]

Looks like the first occupants are in residence !
One flat has been lit up the last two nights and there are cards(new home ?) all along the windowsill. Thought at first it was the showflat but the couple in it tonight didn't look like they were just viewing....... no jackets on eg.

I certainly wouldn't like to be living in it while it is still a building site.

[bearcub]

Looks like the first occupants are in residence !
One flat has been lit up the last two nights and there are cards(new home ?) all along the windowsill. Thought at first it was the showflat but the couple in it tonight didn't look like they were just viewing....... no jackets on eg.

I certainly wouldn't like to be living in it while it is still a building site.

Saw the flat was occupied this morning as well while walking Bess, certainly think they had a rude awakening this morning with a cement mixer going, one of the vehicles 'beeping' extremely loudly and various workmen shouting to each other from various floors Guess they were in a hurry to get in

[Epykat]

Marya, Bob and I checked it out last night - purely as a fact finding exercise on behalf of POL - and it does look lived in. If they've got their computer set up yet - welcome to Portobello

[Lizzie]

Marya, Bob and I checked it out last night - purely as a fact finding exercise on behalf of POL - and it does look lived in. If they've got their computer set up yet - welcome to Portobello

But last night was Monday - your birthday Epykat why would you spend it checking out building at bottom of Bath St
Surley Mr E had a lovely evening out and a few surprises planned for you on your special day

[Epykat]

You think? (I got a light fitting for the kitchen for my birthday.......)

[Lizzie]

You think? (I got a light fitting for the kitchen for my birthday.......)

Well you can't complain about that now can you its a lot more expensive than the feather duster you got for Christmas
It'll be interesting to hear what Mr E comes up with for Valentines Day - be sure and let us know now

[Epykat]

[quote="Lizzie]It'll be interesting to hear what Mr E comes up with for Valentines Day - be sure and let us know now [/quote]

His reply to my very romantic "have a nice V day" text : "you too". I rest my case