When is the support March?

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Porty
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When is the support March?

Post by Porty » 22 Nov 2005, 13:16

Has anyone got any details of when George Galloway, Tommy Sheridan et al are holding the support march and vigil for the murdered innocent mother of five, Sharon Beshenivsky?

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 13:28

Why pick on those 2 politicians? They normally concentrate on issues surrounding war and poverty, as opposed to violent crime.

I don't think that TS and GG have much of a standing when it comes to national law & order issues - nor do I think the Police would think that they were suitable standard-bearers for such a march, which I would be happy to support and attend.

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Re: When is the support March?

Post by xxxx » 22 Nov 2005, 13:31

Porty wrote:Has anyone got any details of when George Galloway, Tommy Sheridan et al are holding the support march and vigil for the murdered innocent mother of five, Sharon Beshenivsky?
Why should they? What good would that do? People usually have to march to draw attention to things people are not aware of.

Policewoman killed in line of duty, its terrible, but it happens every so often.

At least it gives you an opportunity to take a cheap shot at generally law abiding citizens (apart from t sheridan, who has been to jail for his convictions), so she didn't die for nothing.

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Post by Porty » 22 Nov 2005, 13:33

So is there no March?

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 13:36

xxxx

We already know that Porty digs at TS and GG. He knows we know. And we know he knows we know.

The broader questions surround crime and violence, and the left (among which I count myself)'s obsession with external matters.

As such it's an interesting point - as campaigners against violence should be consistent, a bullet fired by a robber at a cop is as damaging as a bullet fired by a US soldier at an insurgent. All concerned have families and all concerned have to live with the consequences of pulling the trigger, or being shot.

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Post by xxxx » 22 Nov 2005, 13:50

Dadaist wrote:xxxx

We already know that Porty digs at TS and GG. He knows we know. And we know he knows we know.
I was questioning his judgement (and to some extent his taste) in using this case to express his well known dislike of certain folk.
As such it's an interesting point - as campaigners against violence should be consistent, a bullet fired by a robber at a cop is as damaging as a bullet fired by a US soldier at an insurgent. All concerned have families and all concerned have to live with the consequences of pulling the trigger, or being shot.
Its not an interesting point, Its a truism, all unprovoked violence is bad. Who said it wasn't? Did any of them?

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 13:56

You're more than welcome to not find it interesting xxxx. I find the philosphical and political themes behind Porty's posts fascinating. Once you can get past the Blair-worship/Sheridan-hating that is.

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Post by Porty » 22 Nov 2005, 13:56

Perhaps I should not have used the emotive GG and TS. However, it is interesting to see the lack of comment here on POL and the deathly silence from those who were so vociferous and scathing about the police previously.

I could look up some of the names and accusations that were made.

People were well aware of the incident involving the DB but it didn't stop various groups/persons making political capital out of it. That's what i call a cheap shot.

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Post by Porty » 22 Nov 2005, 13:59

Dadaist wrote: Once you can get past the Blair-worship/Sheridan-hating that is.
Neither of those is true. I think both are quite nice blokes.

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 14:06

Porty wrote:Perhaps I should not have used the emotive GG and TS. However, it is interesting to see the lack of comment here on POL and the deathly silence from those who were so vociferous and scathing about the police previously.

I could look up some of the names and accusations that were made.

People were well aware of the incident involving the DB but it didn't stop various groups/persons making political capital out of it. That's what i call a cheap shot.
I'm no fan of the Police, but given that I would have liked to see proper toilet and tea breaks for both them and the demonstrators during the Princes St riots, and certainly wouldn't want any physical harm to come to a cop, I don't even think I should have to state my feelings about one of them being shot, especially as she was a mum.

I applaud Porty's regard for the sanctity of human life against gun or any other violence, it is to be applauded.

Porty - the DB? what's that?

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Post by Porty » 22 Nov 2005, 14:06

Dead Brazilian but you could use MB and I won't argue.

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 14:09

deathly silence from those who were so vociferous and scathing about the police
I would have thought that was a reason for them *not* posting in sympathy, as even if they were shocked by the shooting, they wouldn't really want to post in support of the police as they feel that as a whole, police officers have done bad things as well as good.

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Post by Porty » 22 Nov 2005, 14:18

You may well be right. Collective damnation seems to be ok when it comes to the police. The DM doesn't deserve public sympathy.

Do you think Galloway will be getting in touch with the Beshenivsky family, maybe popping round to see them, get his picture taken, that sort of thing?

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 14:27

Ahh ok - Menezes.

I think the issue here is the state. As you well know, all of these campaigners - Sheridan, Galloway etc hate the Brit state with passion.

Therefore when they feel it has done something which they can point at and say "haha! look at the evil Brit state" they will act as any opposition politician will, and make political capital from it. Just because they are motivated by so-called social justice doesn't mean it's not what it is.

So they are filtering the news - many people die for many reasons, it could be road traffic accidents or malaria in Gambia, both kill *way* more than Brit state violence or violence by criminals against the police.

GG and TS are unlikely to get involved in the campaign you mention because their core vote aren't big fans of the police.

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Post by xxxx » 22 Nov 2005, 14:35

Porty wrote:Perhaps I should not have used the emotive GG and TS. However, it is interesting to see the lack of comment here on POL and the deathly silence from those who were so vociferous and scathing about the police previously.
I think the dead police trainee was the emotive element
I could look up some of the names and accusations that were made.
Go on then
People were well aware of the incident involving the DB but it didn't stop various groups/persons making political capital out of it. That's what i call a cheap shot.
As one of theose persons, I don't consider I made any cheap shots. I made a fairly convincing case for the deception of the public over an incompetent and gruesome killing. 11 hollow points to the head, 9 of which hit their target, perpetrators whisked off on holiday, not to the local nick.

A police person being killed in the line of duty is bad but it is almost certain to happen. That is normal and to be expected

It (The IPCC)also released figures which said 106 people died during or after contact with police in the last year, up 24 from the year before.

From the BBC

Did I or anyone else post about these deaths? Not that I remember, because you can't post about everything. If I post on a police killing, its because I expect them to hold higher standards than criminals.

If I post about a murky, abnormal and unexpected death, it cannot be inferred that I approve of or do not care about other deaths.

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 14:47

xxxx is right Porty, from your failure to post in condemnation of Conrad Black, it cannot be inferred that you are a corrupt businessman, even if you have posted regarding business or economic topics in the past.

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Post by Porty » 22 Nov 2005, 15:10

xxxx I was not accusing you of making political mileage or taking a cheap shot.

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 15:16

Porty wrote:
Do you think Galloway will be getting in touch with the Beshenivsky family, maybe popping round to see them, get his picture taken, that sort of thing?
No. I would think that the two Davids (Davis/Cameron) will be beating a path though.

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Post by xxxx » 22 Nov 2005, 15:20

Porty wrote:xxxx I was not accusing you of making political mileage or taking a cheap shot.
I was pretty much accusing you of that.

The dead policewoman and the inaction you divined from certain characters was used to 'expose' the hypocrisy you see in certain politicians.

Its one thing moaning about their cigars and suntan but I found that pretty distasteful.

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 15:31

xxxx - I want you to get an avatar. I'm not saying you need one, and I respect your opinion if you don't want one, but it would make me happy. I need something I can visualize.

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Post by xxxx » 22 Nov 2005, 16:33

Dadaist wrote:xxxx - I want you to get an avatar. I'm not saying you need one, and I respect your opinion if you don't want one, but it would make me happy. I need something I can visualize.
Not for me I'm afraid

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Post by Dadaist » 22 Nov 2005, 16:35

OK.

Not even ascii art?

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