So what's the BIG secret?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 04 Jul 2005, 16:54

In a recent announcement we were informed that the profanity filter has been reinforced

As many of you know I am against the profanity filter on the basis that we ought to be allowed to conduct our posting without the need for policing, as a trial period at the very least. I have had numerous debates about this subject on POL and have yet to see any material defence to support the need for a profanity filter. All that has been put forward is a) we are a community website (and as a community we cannot be trusted) and b) we are having one and that's it.

I wrote to each moderator personally about a week ago and requested that they email me a copy of the words that are encrypted, this has not been forthcoming. Marya at least acknowledged my request but was too busy to supply the list and didn't really want to get into another debate about it. Bob and Bellybabe have not responded.

My beef is twofold; a) until such time as POL profanity becomes unmanageable we should not have a filter and b) I believe one person (Bob) has decided what is and what is not profane. We are all therefore subjected to the nuance and prejudices of his opinion and beliefs. For example: Bob could be a racist and decide that certain offensive words need not be encrypted.

Having searched the internet, as far as I can establish there are 6 or 7 words in the English language that are widely regarded as profane.

I would like some transparency, how many words are on the list and what are they? I would also like to know who has contributed words to the list? Is it just Bob or have Marya and BB done so too? What's the big secret?

Ed · Post by Ed » 04 Jul 2005, 18:42

Steve, I agree.

Post by **wangi** » 04 Jul 2005, 19:04

Likewise. If you want people to act like adults then you treat them like adults. You do not proscribe words that can or cannot be used.

Of course I've seen the list of words - it's a joke. Most of the words on it have never been said on POL, and never will. To list these words in the filter implies that you believe (some) of the forum members to be capable of spouting such racist bile.

If someone did I'd fully expect them to be banned. I do not expect to be treated like a kid because someone <i>might</i> say something bad.

And remember too the filter is nothing but brittle software - it is easy to get round and easily confused. Will I be on warning #2 by simply circumventing the filter to say: arsenal, Scunthorpe, etc, etc... Actually surprised I can say assault without the filter going wild...

And as I said before (on the thread that was deleted this afternoon), if a post is moderated then it should be noted as such.

Ed · Post by Ed » 04 Jul 2005, 20:18

Yup, agree again.

From dictionary.com:

cirÃ‚Â·cumÃ‚Â·vent

1. To surround (an enemy, for example); enclose or entrap.
2. To go around; bypass: circumvented the city.
3. To avoid or get around by artful maneuvering: She planned a way to circumvent all the bureaucratic red tape.

I presume in this instance we are dealing with definition 3. As I said to the Administrators in my PM:

Ed in a PM wrote:I did not try to circumvent them. We were discussing a topic, which I raised the issue of 7 words not allowed on US TV, the words in my own rugby club Forum and a word that I didnt think should be in the profanity filter due to its every day use. There is a big difference between that and me going in an typing "Mr Smith is a ***"

Sorry I think you are wrong.

I think the thread should go back and the profanity filter removed.

Post by **wangi** » 04 Jul 2005, 21:59

Bob Jefferson wrote:minority of members who contravene the rules and who, in doing so, devalue and discredit the forum.

Hmmm... so:

Posting Guidelines wrote:You are free to debate and to disagree

Posting Guidelines wrote:Personal attacks against forum members will not be tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to, attacks on the comments, ideas

I must say, gee thanks Bob. Thanks for being inclusive and listening to a valid point.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 04 Jul 2005, 23:05

Edited by Porty see below

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 04 Jul 2005, 23:35

Just to say that I have had a PM from Bellybabe and she has confirmed that she is "unable" to supply me with a copy of the filtered list.

I have asked her if she is unable to provide the list because she doesn't have a copy or if she will not provide a list under any circumstances? I await a response. Bob has still not acknowledged my PM requesting the list.

I do know that neither Bellybabe nor Marya have ever added a word to the list and the list contains more than 35 words. ( process of elimination)

However, Bob has posted that the Moderators will not not enter into discussion on the subject. Quite frankly that is not good enough. We all contribute hugely to this Forum and the Moderators do not have proprieatory rights. I want a list of the words and a proper discussion about how this Forum is run with particular reference to the Profanity filter.

Quote from Bob Jefferson:

"We will not be entering into any discussion regarding this and we will continue to take any action that we deem necessary with regard to the very small minority of members who contravene the rules and who, in doing so, devalue and discredit the forum."

Wangi has seen the list and states that it is largely ridiculous. In Bob's own words the potential abusers are "the very small minority". Why should the vast majority have their freedom of expression restricted, when it appears to be entirely down to the whim and personal prejudice
of one individual. Its no surprise that the individual in question has deemed that " We will not be entering into any discussion". In my view he has no right to make this statement.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 05 Jul 2005, 00:25

I would like to take this opportunity to post the lyrics to "Maggie" by the Exploited.

Twenty five quid to live on
Seven days a week to survive
Five and twenty pictures of the queen
You won't see the starvation in her eyes
Twenty five quid to dish out
And you're already ten in debt
So with fifteen singles left over
The landlord gets the rent
MAGGIE, MAGGIE YOU ***
MAGGIE, MAGGIE YOU ***
MAGGIE, MAGGIE YOU ***
MAGGIE MAGGIE MAGGIE MAGGIE YOU FUCKING ***

Twenty five reasons for trouble
Three million mouths to feed
They're destroying your mind and body
While they increase their own needs
Twenty five quid of insult
Two meals soon kills your health
They want to see you suffer
They want to see you dead

Ed · Post by Ed » 05 Jul 2005, 09:08

Porty wrote:I do know that neither Bellybabe nor Marya have ever added a word to the list and the list contains more than 35 words. ( process of elimination)

When the phpbb Bulletin board is installed it does not contain any "bad words" by default. They have to be manually added.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 05 Jul 2005, 09:40

Ed wrote:
Porty wrote:I do know that neither Bellybabe nor Marya have ever added a word to the list and the list contains more than 35 words. ( process of elimination)
When the phpbb Bulletin board is installed it does not contain any "bad words" by default. They have to be manually added.

That is my understanding. My issue is that only one person (Bob) has ever added words to the list. This means that he can decide ANY word is profane and is always doing so. He and the rest of the Mods can then ban someone from the forum for using a word that is not profane in anyone's eyes but his. The power is then reinforced by the wording in the posting guidelines and a refusal to discuss the matter. In what other sphere of community life would that be tolerated? "its my community and you cannot say that" He is playing God or is it Stalin? Maybe he will make the name Porty a profanity?

I must emphasise that this is not personal. I asked for the list in public, I then asked privately, waited a reasonable time and went public with the lack of response. I am entitled to see that list, everyone in this community and forum is. Once I have seen the list I will decide what I would like to happen next. Am i being unreasonable?

Ed · Post by Ed » 05 Jul 2005, 09:44

I think the request is reasonable and the manner in which you have presented yourself and your argument to be correct.

If someone wishes to see the Profanity list on the PortyRugby.com Forum, I would show it to them, no problem. As someone who looks after a Forum, the only words I have on it are the big bad sweary ones such as **** and ****.

I agree that if there are 35 words on this list then there is a lot that not everyone considers bad. Where does it stop?

xxxx · Post by **xxxx** » 05 Jul 2005, 10:02

Ed wrote: Where does it stop?

35 words I suppose

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 05 Jul 2005, 22:03

Re the profanity filter - I didn't know that the word dis gus ted was profane! so a tad bewildered when a wee blue emoticon substituded this word on one of my postings?

The only explanation I can think of Porty, is perhaps Bob's a born again christian - may add, I have nothing against any religion whatsoever - well apart from capitalism, the USA Heartland Bible Belt bashers and neo liberalism

Incidentally, as I was educated in an all girl convent school , I don't even know 35 naughty words

Post by **wangi** » 06 Jul 2005, 11:32

An interesting and informative article on the whole issue of profanity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profanity

Of course it tackles the matter in a mature way - so you can't stand to see the "bad words" don't clickity-click the link.

I tell you, the wiki is the best thing to come out of the Net.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Jul 2005, 13:21

I read that before I started my most recent campaign. BTW still heard nothing from our community spirited Mods.