Poor parkers face getting tickets if they stray too far from

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 14 Jun 2005, 21:42

From today's EN

http://news.scotsman.com/

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 14 Jun 2005, 21:44

Fine [no pun intended!] by me [as a non driver] - and I hope they get done for being 30cm ON the pavement too!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 14 Jun 2005, 21:45

Gemini wrote:From today's EN

http://news.scotsman.com/

I saw this earlier in the paper. The only surprise about the article is why it was on the firont page and not in the Woman's section?

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 14 Jun 2005, 21:46

Oh that's not fair on women drivers! We all know that parking is essentially a cyclical thing. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't

(no bike jokes please Porty)

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 14 Jun 2005, 21:48

Epykat wrote:Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't (no bike jokes please Porty)

Ok and I won't do any about how a woman would know how to gauge a foot either.

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 14 Jun 2005, 22:04

Porty wrote: Ok and I won't do any about how a woman would know how to gauge a foot either.

Best not

teddygirl · Post by **teddygirl** » 14 Jun 2005, 22:13

Most can't anyway.

Post by **wangi** » 14 Jun 2005, 22:42

The article sorta missed the point (a bit) - it's not really about those drivers that, well, need to get a taxi to reach the pavement. It's about double parking (which I'd say is a particular Edinburgh problem).

However surely it's already illegal?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 14 Jun 2005, 22:57

Reminds me of that Woody Allen line to Diane Keaton in Annie Hall:

"That's OK, we can walk to the kerb from here."

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 15 Jun 2005, 09:23

wangi wrote:The article sorta missed the point (a bit) - it's not really about those drivers that, well, need to get a taxi to reach the pavement. It's about double parking (which I'd say is a particular Edinburgh problem).

However surely it's already illegal?

You are quite correct of course. However, the '1 foot' rule gives the BM plenty of opportunity for abuse. The rule is designed to discourage double parking but whilst we are at, why not allow people who would not dream of double parking to be booked too? The legislators will no doubt say that the rule will not be abused by the BM, but as we all know, they are quadruple parked in cloud cuckoo land. Either that or they know exactly what hey are doing. The latter woulkd get my vote.

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 15 Jun 2005, 19:02

I dont think exact measurements should be used, you can tell without measuring if a car is parked badly or not...

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 15 Jun 2005, 21:37

Robin! wrote:I dont think exact measurements should be used, you can tell without measuring if a car is parked badly or not...

I will absolutely guarantee that shortly after the law is introduced, the evening paper will be carrying a story about someone getting fined for being 31cm away from the kerb.

Ned Ludd · Post by **Ned Ludd** » 16 Jun 2005, 19:15

The local rag has, as usual, misrepresented the position entirely. The new legislation will only affect cars that are double parked. There will be no change in the rules affecting single parked cars. Despite the fact that no tickets will be issued to cars parked 31cm from the kerb, the News will almost certainly carry the story as suggested. There will always be drivers who don't know that parking attendants take pictures and who want their fifteen minutes of fame, and there will always be journalists who can't be bothered to check their facts....and most of them work in Edinburgh.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 17 Jun 2005, 09:10

Ned - very interesting. Where can we found out exactly what the legislation is?

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 17 Jun 2005, 13:48

One in three would be booked under the new rules

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid ... =658752005

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Jun 2005, 17:11

Ned Ludd wrote:The local rag has, as usual, misrepresented the position entirely. The new legislation will only affect cars that are double parked. There will be no change in the rules affecting single parked cars. Despite the fact that no tickets will be issued to cars parked 31cm from the kerb, the News will almost certainly carry the story as suggested. There will always be drivers who don't know that parking attendants take pictures.

Are you saying that a parking attendant who books a car that is not double parked but is 31cm or more from the kerb would be defeated should the matter get to court or would his right to book be upheld.

Ned Ludd · Post by **Ned Ludd** » 17 Jun 2005, 17:44

The 30cm rule already exists in the controlled parking zone and no-one has ever been booked under it. The new legislation will simply extend it throughout the city and make it effective 24 hours a day. If the rule was, say, 1 metre, then people could park far enough from the kerb to block a road (eg 99cm) and get away with it.

Parking Attendants will only be permitted to book cars that are double parked. Even if they made a mistake, the Council would cancel the ticket.

The News is peddling misinformation to sell papers and whip up yet more ill feeling towards the Council.

The legislation hasn't been written yet and the scrutiny panel report isn't online yet. I'll try to post a copy next week.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 17 Jun 2005, 20:45

I think it's a good thing - but then I live on a street where should our house catch fire, it would burn down because of the inability of the fire appliances to reach it. Not long after we moved in here there was a fire (started deliberately) on the top floor of the tenement across the road; a woman with a baby and toddler was trapped, and the firefighters had a hell of a job getting into the street to help her. We regularly have triple parked cars here too; and I know a couple of local firefighters who have said they've been unable to reach burning buildings because of the double parking. Of course, the only time we ever did it, because someone had blocked our driveway yet again and we had sleeping weans to carry, we got a ticket.

But the parking here is ludicrous and will cost lives unless something is done about it.

*steps quietly off soapbox reflecting smugly that she's never had a problem parking near the kerb as she just chose not to learn to drive*

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 17 Jun 2005, 20:51

Bellybabe whispered

*steps quietly off soapbox reflecting smugly that she's never had a problem parking near the kerb as she just chose not to learn to drive*

Poppy made the same choice. Luckily El P (Rtd) didn't!!!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 18 Jun 2005, 14:48

Ned Ludd wrote:The 30cm rule already exists in the controlled parking zone and no-one has ever been booked under it. The new legislation will simply extend it throughout the city and make it effective 24 hours a day. If the rule was, say, 1 metre, then people could park far enough from the kerb to block a road (eg 99cm) and get away with it.

Parking Attendants will only be permitted to book cars that are double parked. Even if they made a mistake, the Council would cancel the ticket.

The News is peddling misinformation to sell papers and whip up yet more ill feeling towards the Council.

The legislation hasn't been written yet and the scrutiny panel report isn't online yet. I'll try to post a copy next week.

Fair enough. And for the record, double parking is dangerous and selfish.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 18 Jun 2005, 18:34

From the EN letters page:

Give drivers a grace period with new rule

IT came as a surprise to me to read your article on parking, "Third of cars put a foot out of place" (News, June 15). It was the first time I had heard of this initiative. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was unaware of it.

I think there will be a lot of angry people around when the wardens start implementing this.

I have a couple of suggestions, which you may want to champion - they're quite civilised, fair minded, and logical, so they may not go down too well with certain jobsworth types.

Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Issue warning notices for a one-month period stating clearly that had the new regulations been in force the driver would be facing a fine of x pounds. It can also have useful information on it giving the reasons for the new initiative.

Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ Issue penalty notices for a further one-month period requiring drivers to either pay the full fine, or a half fine and attend a class that teaches them how to park a car properly. Basically they can be paying their own tuition.

Surely not a problem for the council - this is an initiative to keep the highways clear, not generate revenue...

If that two-month grace and education period doesn't get the message over, then of course fine them.

Also, as a mathematician, I was wondering about the negative numbering system. Are cars parked in excess of minus a foot from the kerb to be ticketed as well?

I can see a lot of nervous drivers straddling the kerb to be absolutely sure they haven't broken the parking rules - should we pedestrians just say goodbye to our pavements now?

Alistair Potter, Portobello High Street, Edinburgh

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 19 Jun 2005, 20:00

This coming from a man who, had he any hubcaps, would have lost one as he hit the kerb whilst parking only last week

Ned Ludd · Post by **Ned Ludd** » 22 Jun 2005, 18:34

As promised, here's the report. For the sake of clarity, the EN was also told that the regime in respect of single parked cars would not change as a result of this report.

Purpose of report

1. To recommend a strategy for addressing the problems caused city wide by
double parked and poorly parked vehicles on public roads.

Main report

2.1 This matter was previously the subject of a motion by Councillor Tritton which
received consideration by the Executive Committee at its meeting on 15th March 2005 and the Environmental Quality Scrutiny Panel on 20th April 2005.

2.2 It is understood that the Police will only exercise their powers to intervene in
instances where double parked vehicles are causing actual obstruction.

3.1 The Executive Committee of 15th March 2005 requested officials to investigate
the possibility of the Civic Code being extended to include provisions to tackle the double parking problem. The Code, being principally an aspirational document, is intended to set out standards of good civic conduct but cannot create new offences and contains no road traffic provisions.

3.2 It had also been suggested that Byelaws might provide a solution. Edinburgh has however previously taken the decision to decriminalise parking offences and the creation of a new criminal offence would be a retrospective step. Moreover it would be necessary to obtain Scottish Executive approval for such Byelaws but the Scottish Executive will not approve Byelaws which in any way duplicate current law. In this case the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and the Road Traffic Act 1991 as read with the Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Edinburgh) Designation Order 1998 provide the means of tackling double or poor parking by empowering the Council to make Traffic Regulation Orders in respect of these parking contraventions.

3.3 The most effective means of tackling the problems caused by double or poorly parked cars in terms of the available legislative framework is by the promotion of a specifically targeted Traffic Regulation Order.

4. The CouncilÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s decriminalised enforcement powers in terms of the Road Traffic
(Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Edinburgh) Designation Order 1998 the Order extend to the entire City of Edinburgh local government area under exclusion only of :-

a) any roads in respect of which the Council is not the traffic authority;
b) the A720 extending from Gogar junction to its junction with the M8; and;
c) greenways.

It is therefore recommended that the proposed Traffic Regulation Order extends to all public roads in the designated area with these exceptions.

5. A 30 centimetre standard has already been adopted in previous Traffic Regulations in Edinburgh as the maximum parking distance measured from the edge of the carriageway. It is therefore recommended that the new provision, which would apply 24 hours a day, seven days a week, would read as follows:-

Ã¢â‚¬Å“No driver of any vehicle waiting or stopping in any road specified in the Schedule shall except upon the direction of or with the permission of a parking attendant wait or stop that vehicle in circumstances where no part of the vehicle is within 30 centimetres of the edge of the carriageway.Ã¢â‚¬Â

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

Poor parkers face getting tickets if they stray too far from

Poor parkers face getting tickets if they stray too far from

Re: Poor parkers face getting tickets if they stray too far