Rather than slag off the Punch Taverns management on the Forum I've arranged a meeting with Elaine Kennedy, Area Manager and the lessees of the Tides Inn and Utopia. Elaine may end up with responsibility for all of the Punch pubs in Portobello and she is interested in getting our views on the future options for pubs in Portobello.
Bob Jefferson and I plus another 2 local residents plus hopefully, Maureen Child. Lawrence Marshall and the new Police Inspector, Norman Ward, will attend.
The meeting will take place on Thursday 2nd June and I'd like to canvass your views prior to the meeting. Let's have some positive views please as we are already well aware of the various current issues so we shouldn't replay those on this thread. I hope this will be the beginning of an on-going dialogue with Punch Taverns management.
What kinds of pubs do you want?
Punch Taverns - meeting with management
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Brian McCrow
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Bob Jefferson
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maureen mclaughlin
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I'd like to come to this meeting? As I and my neighbours have been gravely effected by the management style of Punch pubs. No offence but we don’t need anyone to talk on our behalf, we are more than capable of doing this for our self’s. It was I and a number of King's Road residents who, continuously pursued the issues with environmental to name but some of the organisations we have approached. It was not the collection of people who are going to represent the King's Roads residents. Don't assume that every thing I have to say will be negative! I thank you for raising this agenda, I don’t wish to be rude but I am more than able to represent my self.
Maureen
Maureen
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Pal of Porty
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Re: Punch Taverns - meeting with management
That is absolutely fantastic - you have been missing for months of dialogue and are coming in to save the day!Brian McCrow wrote:Rather than slag off the Punch Taverns management on the Forum I've arranged a meeting with Elaine Kennedy, Area Manager and the lessees of the Tides Inn and Utopia.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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Pal of Porty
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Brian McCrow
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PoP
The meeting takes place on Thursday 2nd June. I expect it be the start of a process which may take many months if not years as we're trying to establish a working relationship, which will bring residents' views into play.
Maureen
I appreciate the issues you are having with the Tides Inn. You are tackling them very well. I assume you are having a dialogue with the lessee as well as calling in the troops. What I'm trying to do is outside of these current issues and much more about looking to the future. I will make sure that Punch management are aware of your issues and have preventitive actions in place but I don't this to dominate the meeting.
The meeting takes place on Thursday 2nd June. I expect it be the start of a process which may take many months if not years as we're trying to establish a working relationship, which will bring residents' views into play.
Maureen
I appreciate the issues you are having with the Tides Inn. You are tackling them very well. I assume you are having a dialogue with the lessee as well as calling in the troops. What I'm trying to do is outside of these current issues and much more about looking to the future. I will make sure that Punch management are aware of your issues and have preventitive actions in place but I don't this to dominate the meeting.
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maureen mclaughlin
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Brian, I don’t know if you know how offensive and patronising you came over as. To even suggest that we would not have contacted the licence is ridicules. They were advised by letter with in the fist week of opening. This was neither acknowledged nor responded to. The use of the term the big guns suggests that we are acting in an aggressive and doctoral manor. How dare you! These are not big guns these are various public bodes that are there to insure the rights of the public are up held. You don’t seen to grasp they are breaching the conditions of there licences. I don’t think you have any concept of what we have endured over the last few months. We have not had week end where we have not had to put up with excessive noise from this pub. I can assure you, I will not be putting up with this for years. You have not indicated whether I am allowed to attend this meeting. Or is it for share holders only.
I don’t need you to fight my battle I am big enough and able enough to do this on my own.
Maureen
I don’t need you to fight my battle I am big enough and able enough to do this on my own.
Maureen
The problems being experienced by the residents of Bath Street are the Dominant Issues, along with the fracturing of someone's skull.Brian McCrow wrote:PoP
The meeting takes place on Thursday 2nd June. I expect it be the start of a process which may take many months if not years as we're trying to establish a working relationship, which will bring residents' views into play.
Maureen
I appreciate the issues you are having with the Tides Inn. You are tackling them very well. I assume you are having a dialogue with the lessee as well as calling in the troops. What I'm trying to do is outside of these current issues and much more about looking to the future. I will make sure that Punch management are aware of your issues and have preventitive actions in place but I don't this to dominate the meeting.
Maureen and the residents of Kings Road are well versed in their rights (probably more than you realise). I am curious to know what other issues you have on your agenda - as it appears to me, its not the dominant one.
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Brian McCrow
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Maureen
I was not being patronising. Instead I said that I thought you were doing an excellent job in getting these problems sorted out. Naturally you should be using all of the tools in the armoury. I only commented on contacting the leessee as you have never made any reference to him in your posts.
You jump to all manner of conclusions about what we're trying to do with Punch Taverns. I'm not a shareholder and unlikely to ever be one.
I'm trying to determine if we can establish a working relationship with them for the future across Portobello such that we can avoid the current problems you are encountering. As well as creating better pub facilities for the future.
The meeting with Punch is about the future and we don't want to dwell unduly on the past. If you want a separate meeting with Punch management about the Tides Inn and are having difficulty arranging this I will ask the Punch management to contact you directly.
I was not being patronising. Instead I said that I thought you were doing an excellent job in getting these problems sorted out. Naturally you should be using all of the tools in the armoury. I only commented on contacting the leessee as you have never made any reference to him in your posts.
You jump to all manner of conclusions about what we're trying to do with Punch Taverns. I'm not a shareholder and unlikely to ever be one.
I'm trying to determine if we can establish a working relationship with them for the future across Portobello such that we can avoid the current problems you are encountering. As well as creating better pub facilities for the future.
The meeting with Punch is about the future and we don't want to dwell unduly on the past. If you want a separate meeting with Punch management about the Tides Inn and are having difficulty arranging this I will ask the Punch management to contact you directly.
An armoury contains weapons and arms.Brian McCrow wrote:... you should be using all of the tools in the armoury ...
A toolbox (or box) contains tools.
When you are speaking metaphorically, mixing said device reduces impact.
I will let you fight on with your simple sword of truth and shield of justice, although I think Maureen is doing a better job of actually fixing things.
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Brian McCrow
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Dadaist
I wanted this thread to be about the future we see for pubs, bistros etc in Portobello.
I'm disappointed in the lack of forward thinking amongst Forum participants, who seem more comfortable complaining about things, point scoring and sniping from the sidelines.
I've already said that Maureen is doing a very good job in tackling current issues with one pub. Rather churlish to say that she's doing a better job than I.
I wanted this thread to be about the future we see for pubs, bistros etc in Portobello.
I'm disappointed in the lack of forward thinking amongst Forum participants, who seem more comfortable complaining about things, point scoring and sniping from the sidelines.
I've already said that Maureen is doing a very good job in tackling current issues with one pub. Rather churlish to say that she's doing a better job than I.
Your initial posting on the subject of your arranged meeting with Punch Taverns, was very patronising, I felt offended by it, and I know others who read this forum feel the same way.Brian McCrow wrote:Dadaist
I wanted this thread to be about the future we see for pubs, bistros etc in Portobello.
My response to this is :
There are adequate Pubs in Portobello, how many more do you feel we require?
The pubs already here could be upgraded to provide a more continental feel and more family orientated as you have said.
I'm disappointed in the lack of forward thinking amongst Forum participants, who seem more comfortable complaining about things, point scoring and sniping from the sidelines.
I think that this statement is rather unkind, and utterly untrue.
Its human nature to complain,snipe, call it what u will.
If this forum was not forward thinking, we would see a 85.000sq ft Superstore already taking shape on the SP site and an HMO in John Street, PCATS and the Joppa residents benefited hugely from the forum participants.
I've already said that Maureen is doing a very good job in tackling current issues with one pub. Rather churlish to say that she's doing a better job than I.
You have aleady said that you do not want the meeting with Punch Taverns to be dominated by the noise/fighting/distruption to peoples health and safety and general well being - these are the issues that should be top of your agenda, and until Punch or Judy whatever you care to call them, can get their house in order, there should be no talks of expansion within Portobello, neither you or I are living with the consequences - yet!
I have it on good authority that Maureen is more than capable of taking Kings Roads problems to a satisfactory conclusion.
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maureen mclaughlin
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Oh I'm sorry! I assumed that this posting was to gather information relating to views about Punch Pubs.
I didn't realise that replies were only to be positive, relating to what the community would wish Punch Pubs to provide in two years or so. I hesitate to point out that this subject has all ready been aired and then ignored, under Sue Muir's posting. Gather these views and air them at the meeting.
However as you are chatting away, Punch pubs continues to make money from running establishments that are badly managed and detrimental to the surrounding community. In predicting what Punch Pubs can provide, bear in mind the best indicator for any risk assessment, is past and present behaviours. Oops being negative again!
You are correct, it is my responsibility to meet up with Punch Pubs management, which I have every intention of doing, however this will be at the licence committee, when others and I object to their licence.
Again you are right, I did not indicate whether I had contacted the licensee, However my initial posting was to Sue Muir. I'm still waiting for a response which pretty much sums up Punch Pubs attitude. Plus I am not going to go on a public forum and discussing what actions are to be taken, until it has been carried out.
I understand that I will not be receiving an invitation to the meeting. Because as you point out the meeting is relating to a number of subjects, although no agenda has been posted, the inference is also clear that I have no opinion or perhaps valued opinion, relating to anything other than Punch Pubs.
Can you say whether the Tides Inn will be on the agenda and if so how much time will be given over to this subject? How and who is going to pass on the details of this discussion, particularly (god forbid) if Punch Pubs give a commitment to addressing these issues.
I wish however to thank you for your support and swift action in taking up this issue, I will sleep better at night knowing that Punch Pubs will be eagerly welcomed into the community. By the very body of people who are meant to listen and respond to the community's views.
Maureen
I didn't realise that replies were only to be positive, relating to what the community would wish Punch Pubs to provide in two years or so. I hesitate to point out that this subject has all ready been aired and then ignored, under Sue Muir's posting. Gather these views and air them at the meeting.
However as you are chatting away, Punch pubs continues to make money from running establishments that are badly managed and detrimental to the surrounding community. In predicting what Punch Pubs can provide, bear in mind the best indicator for any risk assessment, is past and present behaviours. Oops being negative again!
You are correct, it is my responsibility to meet up with Punch Pubs management, which I have every intention of doing, however this will be at the licence committee, when others and I object to their licence.
Again you are right, I did not indicate whether I had contacted the licensee, However my initial posting was to Sue Muir. I'm still waiting for a response which pretty much sums up Punch Pubs attitude. Plus I am not going to go on a public forum and discussing what actions are to be taken, until it has been carried out.
I understand that I will not be receiving an invitation to the meeting. Because as you point out the meeting is relating to a number of subjects, although no agenda has been posted, the inference is also clear that I have no opinion or perhaps valued opinion, relating to anything other than Punch Pubs.
Can you say whether the Tides Inn will be on the agenda and if so how much time will be given over to this subject? How and who is going to pass on the details of this discussion, particularly (god forbid) if Punch Pubs give a commitment to addressing these issues.
I wish however to thank you for your support and swift action in taking up this issue, I will sleep better at night knowing that Punch Pubs will be eagerly welcomed into the community. By the very body of people who are meant to listen and respond to the community's views.
Maureen
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Beach Babe
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*applauds Maureen's posts*
so far I have kept out of this whole Punch Pubs thing as I am a deeply cynical person and, even though it does not directly affect me, I had nothing positive to say and everything that I would have said had already been posted
but I feel compelled to offer Maureen (+other Kings Road residents) my support and to voice a total air of puzzlement with regard to Brian
so far I have kept out of this whole Punch Pubs thing as I am a deeply cynical person and, even though it does not directly affect me, I had nothing positive to say and everything that I would have said had already been posted
but I feel compelled to offer Maureen (+other Kings Road residents) my support and to voice a total air of puzzlement with regard to Brian
I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship
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maureen mclaughlin
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I don’t know who you have been talking to or if indeed its complement, however they are correct 
. Sue Allen already started one.Robert Kilroy 'Brian McCrow' Silk wrote:Dadaist
I wanted this thread to be about the future we see for pubs, bistros etc in Portobello.
Be more specific. List the participants and the individual complaints. You said you believe in democracy - which I take to mean the modern interpretation of liberal democracy, which affords citizens the right of expression. In this context, it affords forum participants the right to respond to an allegation made against them.I'm disappointed in the lack of forward thinking amongst Forum participants, who seem more comfortable complaining about things, point scoring and sniping from the sidelines.
I didn't say that Maureen was doing a better job than you, even if a dog in the street can see that. What I said, which you simply failed to understand , was that Maureen was doing a different job to you - whilst she is trying to fix things (using the "tools" part of your crude metaphor), you are in some strange place between Quixote and Jonathan Aitken.I've already said that Maureen is doing a very good job in tackling current issues with one pub. Rather churlish to say that she's doing a better job than I.
If you would like me to annotate any of the things I've said above, please ask now in order to save yourself the embarrassment later.
Brian
I believe you have shown good initiative in organising this meeting, its always good to talk. However, i believe you were being a bit offensive to your fellow citizens when saying that they were slagging off Punch Taverns.
From what I've read these people have witnessed serious incidents, experienced infringements of the quality of their lifes and these have been linked to Punch establishments in Porty. Its not slagging, its not a conceptual Utopia, it is reality. Sue Allen asked for feedback and high-tailed it out of here when she didn't enjoy the evidence as presented. Do you think she deserves plaudits?
There are some basic requirements for the running of a good "shop" and you don't need an "imagineer's" meeting to work out what they are? Simply sticking to the rules as governed by their licences would be a good start for most of us. There are quite a few examples of well run pubs in Portobello. I don't think they got that way by the input of some random committee.
Why with 3000+ Pubs do Punch find it so difficult to run good ones?
As an aside, does anyone know if Punch were one of the groups that signed up to the new code on happy hours and drink promotions? I understand a 1/3 of pubs in Scotland did.
I believe you have shown good initiative in organising this meeting, its always good to talk. However, i believe you were being a bit offensive to your fellow citizens when saying that they were slagging off Punch Taverns.
From what I've read these people have witnessed serious incidents, experienced infringements of the quality of their lifes and these have been linked to Punch establishments in Porty. Its not slagging, its not a conceptual Utopia, it is reality. Sue Allen asked for feedback and high-tailed it out of here when she didn't enjoy the evidence as presented. Do you think she deserves plaudits?
There are some basic requirements for the running of a good "shop" and you don't need an "imagineer's" meeting to work out what they are? Simply sticking to the rules as governed by their licences would be a good start for most of us. There are quite a few examples of well run pubs in Portobello. I don't think they got that way by the input of some random committee.
Why with 3000+ Pubs do Punch find it so difficult to run good ones?
As an aside, does anyone know if Punch were one of the groups that signed up to the new code on happy hours and drink promotions? I understand a 1/3 of pubs in Scotland did.
It is a good thing that Brian has set up a meeting with Punch Pubs but I really feel that the only way you can seriously discuss the future is to first discuss the present. Do we really want another 3 or 4 replicas of the Tides? I don't. I live far too near the Figgate Whins to welcome it's takeover with open arms in light of what's happened at King's Road - and if Punch Pubs are serious about keeping the locals happy (which I doubt) they would welcome Maureen and the residents of King's Road to the meeting too.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
I can appreciate that Brian feels that approaching the forthcoming meeting (which really is a private arrangement between him and Punch) on a positive note will lead to a dialogue that may be beneficial not just to Punch but to the majority of Portobello residents. Let's face it, Punch are here to stay whether we like their pubs or not.
I'm more of a glass half-empty person myself and suspect that Punch have no need to alter what many of their pubs currently offer so long as the tills keep ringing. The 'Tides In" sounds a busy pub. It can't all be non-residents of Portobello that darken its doors surely?
My gut feeling is that Maureen's tactics will have more success in tackling the style of pub management that has created a miserable situation for King's Road residents. I am fully prepared to be proved wrong in the long term and wish Brian the best with his initiative, but here's wishing you all the very best in your endeavours too Maureen.
I'm more of a glass half-empty person myself and suspect that Punch have no need to alter what many of their pubs currently offer so long as the tills keep ringing. The 'Tides In" sounds a busy pub. It can't all be non-residents of Portobello that darken its doors surely?
My gut feeling is that Maureen's tactics will have more success in tackling the style of pub management that has created a miserable situation for King's Road residents. I am fully prepared to be proved wrong in the long term and wish Brian the best with his initiative, but here's wishing you all the very best in your endeavours too Maureen.www.porty.org.uk
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Bob Jefferson
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I have been invited to attend this meeting. I have accepted. I'm not sure what to expect from it or what it might achieve but I will be speaking my mind, taking into account my own experiences and those that have been expressed on this forum and elsewhere, and I hope it will be constructive. There may be issues that Punch do not wish to discuss but that will not deter me from making points that I believe are important.
Brian has set up this meeting. It's not a public meeting and he is free to invite who he wishes. I have suggested the names of a few people that I feel could make a useful contiribution but it's his call. Anyone could do what Brian has and is welcome to do so. I suggested that Brian start this thread to let people know about the meeting. On reflection it doesn't seem such a good idea. I don't think Brian deserves the criticism he has received and I know that his actions are well-intended, if misundertood by some.
I sympathise entirely with Maureen and I'm glad that she is taking positive action and wish her success. I know of another forum member who experienced similar problems with another Punch-owned pub in Portobello and had to take similar action. It's not a great track record and these matters are certainly on my agenda and I'll be happy to discuss them in a positive fashion.
Brian has set up this meeting. It's not a public meeting and he is free to invite who he wishes. I have suggested the names of a few people that I feel could make a useful contiribution but it's his call. Anyone could do what Brian has and is welcome to do so. I suggested that Brian start this thread to let people know about the meeting. On reflection it doesn't seem such a good idea. I don't think Brian deserves the criticism he has received and I know that his actions are well-intended, if misundertood by some.
I sympathise entirely with Maureen and I'm glad that she is taking positive action and wish her success. I know of another forum member who experienced similar problems with another Punch-owned pub in Portobello and had to take similar action. It's not a great track record and these matters are certainly on my agenda and I'll be happy to discuss them in a positive fashion.
From my reading of the article in The Scotsman only the Scottish members of the British Beer and Pub Association are privy to the new code.Porty wrote: As an aside, does anyone know if Punch were one of the groups that signed up to the new code on happy hours and drink promotions? I understand a 1/3 of pubs in Scotland did.
From a perusal of:
http://www.beerandpub.com/content.asp?id_Content=777
It looks as if Punch Taverns are indeed signatories.
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Pal of Porty
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I do not know what all the fuss is about - we are in safe hands. Here is an extract from Punch Corporate Statements (Social Responsibility Section):
"The pub is often the focal point for people from all backgrounds. It is important therefore for the company to take a stance on a whole range of issues which impact on social responsibility. Punch will have a clear and unambiguous view. The Punch position statements are influenced by what our retailers are feeding back to us."
The only way this statement could help the residents of Kings Road is if they rolled it up and stuffed it in their ears to keep the noise out.
"The pub is often the focal point for people from all backgrounds. It is important therefore for the company to take a stance on a whole range of issues which impact on social responsibility. Punch will have a clear and unambiguous view. The Punch position statements are influenced by what our retailers are feeding back to us."
The only way this statement could help the residents of Kings Road is if they rolled it up and stuffed it in their ears to keep the noise out.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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maureen mclaughlin
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I am just trying to catch up with this thread and was sad to see that there has been so much arguing around dealing with Punch Tavern issues. I do not believe that Brian's intentions were to patronise or criticise other peoples management of their situations. I do agree that it is important to keep communication lines open with Punch Tavern representatives, even if it appears that nothing has changed. Maureen, you and your neighbours are dealing with the issue that you are forced to live beside whereas I get the impression that Brian's aim is to 'continue' discussions regarding all the Punch Tavern owned pubs in Portobello.
GG and I had a very difficult time last year with a local pub. We were in negotiations with all concerned and had many, many disturbed, sleepless nights, etc, etc. Despite promises of support from other locals experiencing the problems we were, once we started the ball rolling we appeared to be very much on our own. We would have appreciated any form of parallel support, even if it was approaching the situation from a different angle. I am aware that this is how we felt and you may be experiencing your situation differently. I do remember feeling so grateful when we would occasionally hear that some-one else had phoned to complain. At times it did feel a bit like our word against theirs.
Maureen, all I can say is please keep going with what you are doing (although I don't get the impression that you are ready to quit). I know there were times we felt like just giving up but I'm glad we hung in there.
It is apparent that people writing their views on this thread are in agreement of what they don't want to be happening in our community (or any other area for that matter) and are prepared to speak up about this. Is it not possible to work together on this, even if by the means of differnet approaches with the same aims?
DG
GG and I had a very difficult time last year with a local pub. We were in negotiations with all concerned and had many, many disturbed, sleepless nights, etc, etc. Despite promises of support from other locals experiencing the problems we were, once we started the ball rolling we appeared to be very much on our own. We would have appreciated any form of parallel support, even if it was approaching the situation from a different angle. I am aware that this is how we felt and you may be experiencing your situation differently. I do remember feeling so grateful when we would occasionally hear that some-one else had phoned to complain. At times it did feel a bit like our word against theirs.
Maureen, all I can say is please keep going with what you are doing (although I don't get the impression that you are ready to quit). I know there were times we felt like just giving up but I'm glad we hung in there.
It is apparent that people writing their views on this thread are in agreement of what they don't want to be happening in our community (or any other area for that matter) and are prepared to speak up about this. Is it not possible to work together on this, even if by the means of differnet approaches with the same aims?
DG
Work like you don't need money.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance like no-one's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance like no-one's watching.
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Pal of Porty
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Maureen - Their web site gives you loads of information and you can download a vast array of documents.
http://www.punchtaverns.com/Punch/Corporate
However my favourite page comes from their pubs site and is on Segmentation - the process where they breakdown their estate into 11 different categories of pubs. The link below will take you to the main page and if you click on the 'A Huge Variety of Pubs Tab' you will have fun spotting which category the 'Tides Inn' is in!
http://www.punchpubs.co.uk/
http://www.punchtaverns.com/Punch/Corporate
However my favourite page comes from their pubs site and is on Segmentation - the process where they breakdown their estate into 11 different categories of pubs. The link below will take you to the main page and if you click on the 'A Huge Variety of Pubs Tab' you will have fun spotting which category the 'Tides Inn' is in!
http://www.punchpubs.co.uk/
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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Bob Jefferson
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maureen mclaughlin
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