School dinners

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 21 Feb 2005, 20:18

As a foodie and concerned/informed parent, I am appalled at what constitutes a school dinner nowadays. My kids will contiune to take packed lunches until the 37p a head re-heated, over-processed junk is replaced by real food. Prisoners are fed much better food and during the BSE crisis it was safer to eat pet food in the US than school dinners.

I am therefore looking forward to Jamie Oliver's new TV series, 'Jamie's School Dinners', starting this Wednesday on Channel 4. Forget the namby-pamby idea of offering kids a 'healthy option', Jamie hits the nail right on the head:

Look at it this way, if you're a teacher, and you're taking a class of kids for English literature, you don't let them read comics because that's what they like, do you? It's the same with school food. I mean, we're meant to be educating kids, aren't we? In my book, that process shouldn't stop during the lunch hour. So, although these kids may want the Beano - we're giving them Shakespeare!

mr magnolia · Post by **mr magnolia** » 28 Feb 2005, 16:18

top dog for dinners!

but can Jamie Oliver get his costs down below about Ã‚Â£4 per head?

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 28 Feb 2005, 17:41

Jopanna Blythman has a lot to say on the subject in her book The Food Our Children Eat, but it doesan't encourage you much other than to say the best thing to do is kick up a fuss and intervene yourself. I do that via lunchboxes. I mgiht have more to say on this subject but have to go and think up some healthy meal for my children.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 28 Feb 2005, 17:49

Bellybabe said

I mgiht have more to say on this subject but have to go and think up some healthy meal for my children.

Well, if you and your two fellow moderators had spent less time gossiping and plotting in Sizzlers this afternoon, you might have had more time now to say more about this issue!!!!?????

[/quote]

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 28 Feb 2005, 17:51

Darn!!! Foiled again!!!

Actually that wasn't me. It was my evil twin. Blaggerbabe.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 04 Mar 2005, 21:13

I'm really pleased that Jamie's TV series has put school dinners back on the agenda. Wasn't this week's show inspiring? Kids who couldn't tell a tomato from a leek tucking into, and enjoying, real food.

I support the SSP's bill to introduce free school meals for everyone, as does the Child Poverty Action Group and many others. A new study has recently found that it makes sound economic sense as well.

Scotland: Free school meals?

I also believe that, in conjunction with this, schools should keep pupils within school grounds over the lunch period. School dinners could not be made compulsory but few tax-paying parents would want to pay twice by providing a packed lunch and so the majority of children would benefit from a healthy and nutritious meal, in many cases the only one of the day. An added bonus would be that we could all enjoy an almost litter-free High Street.

I would make an exception for S5 and S6 and hope that the healthy eating policy had steered them in the right direction by that point. Some of our local traders would lose business but I have little sympathy for the purveyors of junk food.

Kitcheners offers a good lunchtime deal for school kids, but elsewhere it's mostly the usual poisonous cocktail of fat, sugar and chemicals that has made our nations's children among the unhealthiest in the Western world.

Oh, and snack provided by Towerbank School Nursery for my 4 year old yesterday was a hot dog!

Shall we get some sample menus from local schools?

bearcub · Post by **bearcub** » 04 Mar 2005, 21:34

Although I've not got kids I've been watching the programme in disgust at the, let's be honest, pure sh'it that schoolkids are being fed. If we do have children in the future there's no way they're getting school dinners unless I know there's been a massive improvement.

mr magnolia · Post by **mr magnolia** » 04 Mar 2005, 22:00

I remember a very special teenage year at school when I managed to wangle both a packed lunch and school dinner. And sometimes a visit to the pub.

Ah me, fings just ain't the same these days...

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 04 Mar 2005, 22:39

Wouldn't it be fun to force-feed the MD of Bernard Matthews his own products?

Bernard Matthews Children's Products

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 04 Mar 2005, 23:15

Bob

That first picture is vile - what is it?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 04 Mar 2005, 23:27

Don't you fancy Turkey Twizzlers then, Sandra? Kids love them, apparently, and they featured heavily on school dinners until recently. Thankfully, they are now banned in schools in Scotland (along with other Bernard Matthews products) and a number of English councils are now following our example.

Turkey's off

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 04 Mar 2005, 23:34

My youngest niece has requested chicken nuggets and chips at our reception, luckily the older one is going with the fillet of beef.... and chips..

Its changed days since I was wee. We ate what was put in front of us - what the rest of the family were eating though I have gruesome memories of farola fluff. I loved raspberry cremola foam though and pink custard...

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 04 Mar 2005, 23:50

To counter-balance all the advertising and peer pressure you have to teach your children from an early age that chicken nuggets are EVIL. My kids are more likely to fire-bomb McDonalds than eat there.

I would tell your niece that chicken nuggets are off the menu, along with dinosaur bites and turkey twizzlers. She'll get over it.

Post by **wangi** » 05 Mar 2005, 00:11

Bob Jefferson wrote:My kids are more likely to fire-bomb McDonalds than eat there

Going for a nice family trip to Fife this July?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 05 Mar 2005, 00:27

Sandra wrote: I loved raspberry cremola foam though and pink custard...

Sandra I ADORED Cremola foam too - I always added an extra teaspoonful .
When my wee sister returned after her first day at school (and her first school dinner), she was asked if she had enjoyed it. "It was great," was the reply. "I had pink custard and mince". An unbeatable combination

Did anyone ever see pink custard out-with school dinners I wonder?

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 05 Mar 2005, 00:35

Marya wrote: Did anyone ever see pink custard out-with school dinners I wonder?

No, definitely not.

At Porty High, I remember fights breaking out in the dining hall over who would get the skin off the top of the custard jugs that were placed on each of the tables.

And Bob, it was really amazing to see the kids, especially that wee boy, Luke I think was his name, who flatly refused to eat any of the food to start with and then tucked in happily at the end.

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 05 Mar 2005, 11:32

You used to be able buy packets of coloured (and flavoured) custard. There were six different flavours in each packet - strawberry, raspberry, banana, lemon, orange and vanilla. I think they were made by Brown and Poulson and were a firm favourite when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. No doubt full of chemicals, but we loved them!

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 05 Mar 2005, 11:33

Bob Jefferson wrote:
Shall we get some sample menus from local schools?

Bob,I've got a copy of the 4 weekly menu from St John's (which IMHO has some pretty good choices on it). I've scanned it and saved it as a pdf. but don't know what do do with it now

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 05 Mar 2005, 11:41

Excellent. Just email it to me as an attachment and I'll take care of it. If that doesn't work just stick it on a disk and I'll pick it up.

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 05 Mar 2005, 12:27

ecm wrote:

At Porty High, I remember fights breaking out in the dining hall over who would get the skin off the top of the custard jugs that were placed on each of the tables.

I went to 4 different seconadary schools and the same thing happened at every one of them. The custard was brilliant especially poured over that corn flake pudding thing they used to make

Can I be custard monitor on Saturday night?

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 05 Mar 2005, 12:33

foxy wrote: I went to 4 different seconadary schools and the same thing happened at every one of them. The custard was brilliant especially poured over that corn flake pudding thing they used to make

Now, is that the Chocolate Crispie Cornflake type pudd or the one that was made up of pureed apples with a layer of Dream Topping then sprinkled with cornflakes on top?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 05 Mar 2005, 12:38

Here's the St John's menu, courtesy of Maria. Your comments please.

http://www.porty.org.uk/pdf/st_johns_menu.pdf

(Marya - maybe you could ask them to email the original document so I can put up an easier to read version?)

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 05 Mar 2005, 12:38

ecm wrote:
Now, is that the Chocolate Crispie Cornflake type pudd or the one that was made up of pureed apples with a layer of Dream Topping then sprinkled with cornflakes on top?

Both

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 05 Mar 2005, 12:47

Bob Jefferson wrote:Here's the St John's menu, courtesy of Maria. Your comments please.

That menu looks pretty good (no Turkey Twizzlers) and fairly similar to the menu at Parsons Green where my son goes from what I remember.

Dan takes a packed lunch and has done for a long while now so I'm a bit out of touch on what is offered there currently.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 05 Mar 2005, 13:05

Bob Jefferson wrote:(Marya - maybe you could ask them to email the original document so I can put up an easier to read version?)

Suspect if it is hard to read (I can't see it using my browser

) it is down to my poor scanning Bob. I'll maybe try later on getting a better quality scan for you but things are a bit busy round here at the mo. Failing that I'll nip into the school office on Mon.....

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 05 Mar 2005, 21:39

Bob Jefferson wrote:Here's the St John's menu, courtesy of Maria. Your comments please.

Looks very like our school's menu too ecm, so must be standard EDC fayre

My 10 year old does not fancy any of it, so packed lunches for us too

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 05 Mar 2005, 22:02

Unfortunately a menu doesn't tell us very much, but I suspect there is a lot of re-heated, over-processed food in there. Turkey Drummers, Potato Smiles/Shapes/Spirals and anything that includes the words Jumbo or Nuggets must be of concern.

Home Made Chicken Curry and Cheese & Tomato Pizza? Made in whose home, and how exactly? And is it absolutely necessary to have pudding every day? Wouldn't it be better to skip pud and concentrate the 37p on a wholesome bowl of home made soup and a real, cooked main course?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 05 Mar 2005, 23:23

is it absolutely necessary to have pudding every day?

Here's a selection from Week 1;
choice of seasonal fruit
Yoghurt and shortbread
Melon and Grape surprise
Choice of seasonal fruit
Fresh fruit platter

What's wrong with that?

Bob, I think we're fortunate in general with the menu that is on offer in our local Primary schools ....just wait until you see what is on offer at Secondary school level!!!
Chips'n'cheese anyone?

BTW there's also a packed lunch menu that follows a 4 weekly cycle but I've decided that I won't put you through trying to read that too!

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 06 Mar 2005, 00:56

Marya wrote: Here's a selection from Week 1;
choice of seasonal fruit
Yoghurt and shortbread
Melon and Grape surprise
Choice of seasonal fruit
Fresh fruit platter

I wonder what the surprise is in the Melon and Grape surprise. I'm intrigued.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 06 Mar 2005, 01:08

Can't help you out there I'm afraid ecm, my son takes packed lunches too - except for the one day in the month when baked potato with tuna is on the menu - so it's destined to remain a mystery

mr magnolia · Post by **mr magnolia** » 18 Mar 2005, 13:06

Well the Greenwich kids and teachers allegedly see a difference now:

A Result?

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 18 Mar 2005, 14:06

I've often found this website very useful - kiddy food.

I'm sure I've said before on another thread that the situation with food at school apalls me. I wouldn't dream of letting my children eat school dinners, which means they get healthy packed lunches, but they eat them in the classroom with their teacher. I think it's unreasonable to expect teachers to supervise lunch anyway, but a lot of children in my son's class eat nothing because they're so desperate to get out to play. Any child who doesn't eat fast enough is "punished", sort of, by getting the worst part to play in games or whatever, and being teased by the others. Peer pressure means that most of my son's healthy food goes in the bin.

Not only that, but on one occasion last year, I was called over to be told he'd been particularly hyper that afternoon, and questioning had ascertained that it was because he'd been given Smarties or something by another child "who felt sorry for him" because his parents didn't give him junk. The teacher's response was to ask therefore thast we provide junk for our child in order to stop him eating other children's.

He knows about healthy eating, almost every meal we have is made fresh from scratch, and we discuss what's healthy and why. We have charts on the kitchen wall explaining what one needs from food and which foods are good sources of it. He still won't eat his lunch.

We phoned and spoke to the head this week, who promised to step in and help out with the lunch box problem, and our experience has mobilised some other parents to join us in trying to do something about it. A meeting in a pub to discuss is on the agenda...at last. In the meantime, we tried letting him choose/make his own lunch from a number of healthy options; it didn't work. We've tried taking him out of school for lunch; it doesn't work. One feels so powerless when one can't be there to supervise and the people with care and control of the child don't. I can't help but feel the school is failing in its duty of care in letting children eat nothing at lunchtime.

Sorry - rant over.

Mimpty · Post by **Mimpty** » 18 Mar 2005, 14:20

[quote="Bellybabe"]they get healthy packed lunches, but they eat them in the classroom with their teacher.

almost every meal we have is made fresh from scratch, and we discuss what's healthy and why. We have charts on the kitchen wall explaining what one needs from food and which foods are good sources of it. He still won't eat his lunch.

Wow - you should be up for a good parent award or something, Bellybabe. I don't eat as healthily or use as wide a range of food as I ought, but I was appalled by what children were eating or not eating on "Jamie's School dinners".
It is disappointing to hear that your school is only just starting to become supportive, perhaps shamed into it by the same TV prgramme.

Why can't the kids with packed lunches eat beside the kids who get school dinners? Sounds daft.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 18 Mar 2005, 14:23

a lot of children in my son's class eat nothing because they're so desperate to get out to play

That's a familiar sounding tale! My son does eat most of his lunch, but also likes to rush out to play , so rarely finishes it completely, choosing instead to stuff it into his jacket pockets to fester and incubate interesting moulds until I carry out an archaeological dig

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 18 Mar 2005, 14:32

Mimpty wrote:Wow - you should be up for a good parent award or something, Bellybabe.

Ugh....didn't mean to sound quite so sanctimonious and nauseating.... Sorry!