Definitelyali wrote:and while we're on the subject of personal attacks perhaps members and "visitors" to the Community council should be asked by the Chairperson to apply points 4 and 5 above to their own conduct at their meetings.Marya wrote: 4) Forum users would be asked not to be so combative in their responses to others, and to avoid remarks of a personal nature.
5) The moderators will not tolerate online personal feuds or attacks and will take any steps they consider necessary to prevent this from happening.
Portobello Online and the Community Council
In a further attempt to disentangle the points of connection between POL and the Community Council, would anyone like to comment on whether they think that £50 over four years represents value for money for the Community Council given the level of control or influence they appear to think they have over POL and in particular the behaviour of posters on the Forums??Bob Jefferson wrote:Thank you Sandra. Your first direct debit payment is due.............
Truth is, as Porty posted earlier, we have had a total of £50 from the CC in the last 4 years.
I can honestly say I was amazed that at that meeting more time was spent discussing the poisoning of the community by an anonymous coven than there was discussing the provision of wheelchair access to the beach. I think their priorities got a bit muddled........
.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
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The minutes from the August CC meeting were (I think) formally accepted this evening, although paper copies were not actually circulated until after the meeting had commenced. I mention this because one or two changes have been made in the section referring to the discussion that took place at the August meeting re the forum. The final? approved version is as follows:
[quote]241.4g Portobello Online (240.8h): Maria Devoy reported that there had not been a meeting of the sub-group despite her best efforts to organise one in July or August. However, the three moderators/administrators had met to deal with complaints made by four people. It was agreed that members of the sub-group would meet following the Community Council meeting and agree a date promptly.
Maria reported that only four people out of a total of over 550 registered users had complained. In dealing with these complaints: one had been upheld; an informal request to remove a group of postings was agreed in acknowledgment of the effect on the complainant at being the focus of them; another thread had posts edited to protect the privacy of a group of residents; and the fourth was denied.
A general discussion on the contributions to Portobello Online took place. A member of the public and some Community Council members said they had concerns about the disrespect and personal insults shown to individuals, and the tone and content of some contributors who remained anonymous; Lewis Waugh (Portobello High School) had hoped to use the discussion forum in education, but found the standard of debate unacceptable. It was suggested that these contributions do not reflect our community and could affect the reputation of Portobello. John Stewart suggested the removal of all posts subject to a complaint until it was resolved. It was also suggested that no anonymous postings be allowed, and that a more formal discussion site be separated from the “chat roomâ€
[quote]241.4g Portobello Online (240.8h): Maria Devoy reported that there had not been a meeting of the sub-group despite her best efforts to organise one in July or August. However, the three moderators/administrators had met to deal with complaints made by four people. It was agreed that members of the sub-group would meet following the Community Council meeting and agree a date promptly.
Maria reported that only four people out of a total of over 550 registered users had complained. In dealing with these complaints: one had been upheld; an informal request to remove a group of postings was agreed in acknowledgment of the effect on the complainant at being the focus of them; another thread had posts edited to protect the privacy of a group of residents; and the fourth was denied.
A general discussion on the contributions to Portobello Online took place. A member of the public and some Community Council members said they had concerns about the disrespect and personal insults shown to individuals, and the tone and content of some contributors who remained anonymous; Lewis Waugh (Portobello High School) had hoped to use the discussion forum in education, but found the standard of debate unacceptable. It was suggested that these contributions do not reflect our community and could affect the reputation of Portobello. John Stewart suggested the removal of all posts subject to a complaint until it was resolved. It was also suggested that no anonymous postings be allowed, and that a more formal discussion site be separated from the “chat roomâ€
OK I'll try to give some sort of personal response, to a question that has been discussed pretty thoroughly recently, albeit mainly in private. Here's my take on it - I shall assume that everyone knows how Bob came to set up the Portobello Online (with £50 from the CC) and how he set up the sub-committee which oversees it (he was the sole administrator of the site at the time).ali wrote:At this point I think you'll be met with the usual wall of silence.wangi wrote:Bob, what's the PCC got to do with anything, and why?
For the greater part of the site's existence no-one from the PCC was really very interested in it, but as it became more successful (winning an award etc.) POL's profile with the CC grew. For example, I became the POL representative on the CC and am responsible for giving a monthly report.
It was only, however, when some members of the CC were approached with complaints about the content and tone of some Forum posts that the exact role of the CC came under scrutiny. While this has meant some stressful experiences at recent CC meetings it has also resulted in a relatively positive process which made us all re-assess what the CC expect from POL and what we need in return.
I know that some members feel that we should have the same status as say 'The Portobello Reporter' and be represented on the CC only as an interest group. This may seem straightforward enough, but it would involve setting up POL with some sort of non-profit making/charitable legal status and operating a separate bank account etc. Not a major task, but it does mean more work/responsibility for the 3 administrators.
At the moment POL is an arm of the CC and keeps its accounts with it, which means that we are transparent in our financial dealings.
We are also a community website and it seems fitting that we should operate under the umbrella of the CC, which after all represents our community and under new legislation will become an even more important tool in local democracy. Anyone could set up a website for Portobello, but as a body affiliated to the CC we can cross-fertilise ideas. For example, Rapunzell's campaign to gain equal access to the beach has a direct voice on the CC through the POL representative (myself!) and we quickly hear of planning issues etc. which will impact on the local community. Not everyone can make it along to a CC meeting (or indeed may want to!) but POL can act as an effective channel for communication which can only be a good thing for us all.
It is crucial, however, that we are supported by the CC and trusted to apply our posting rules as fairly as possible. We are all on a rather steep learning curve at the moment , but I am hopeful that POl can remain part of the CC. I do stress, however, that this is a personal view.
Marya - thanks for the response.Marya wrote:ali wrote:At this point I think you'll be met with the usual wall of silence.wangi wrote:Bob, what's the PCC got to do with anything, and why?
For the greater part of the site's existence no-one from the PCC was really very interested in it, but as it became more successful (winning an award etc.) POL's profile with the CC grew. .................................
It was only, however, when some members of the CC were approached with complaints about the content and tone of some Forum posts that the exact role of the CC came under scrutiny. While this has meant some stressful experiences at recent CC meetings it has also resulted in a relatively positive process which made us all re-assess what the CC expect from POL and what we need in return.
I know that some members feel that we should have the same status as say 'The Portobello Reporter' and be represented on the CC only as an interest group. This may seem straightforward enough, but it would involve setting up POL with some sort of non-profit making/charitable legal status and operating a separate bank account etc. Not a major task, but it does mean more work/responsibility for the 3 administrators.
At the moment POL is an arm of the CC and keeps its accounts with it, which means that we are transparent in our financial dealings.
We are also a community website and it seems fitting that we should operate under the umbrella of the CC, which after all represents our community and under new legislation will become an even more important tool in local democracy. Anyone could set up a website for Portobello, but as a body affiliated to the CC we can cross-fertilise ideas. For example, Rapunzell's campaign to gain equal access to the beach has a direct voice on the CC through the POL representative (myself!) and we quickly hear of planning issues etc. which will impact on the local community. Not everyone can make it along to a CC meeting (or indeed may want to!) but POL can act as an effective channel for communication which can only be a good thing for us all.
It is crucial, however, that we are supported by the CC and trusted to apply our posting rules as fairly as possible. We are all on a rather steep learning curve at the moment , but I am hopeful that POl can remain part of the CC. I do stress, however, that this is a personal view.
My own view is that POL should be independent from the CC. The financial side of things are, I assume, not a major responsibility and with donations from members it shouldn't be beyond one of us to deal with the books (Porty or POP perhaps for Hon Treasurer?
I think POL can act as an influence on the CC and the Edinburgh City Council. As has been seen on the PHS threads over on Portobello Matters, POL serves as an important source of information and it could be argued that the consensus which, touchwood, has emerged from the discussion over the last few months really is the voice of the people of Portobello.
We shouldn't compromise POL's integrity by being seen as an offshoot of any local institution (and that means the Labour Party too - or any other political party).
we also don't need the CC trying to censor what's said and how its said on here - we hang out here because we enjoy the banter but we also learn stuff and debate things and we are almost 99% self moderating - we do it ourselves (well - the mods occasionally have to get their big stick out
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I think the financial side of things is actually quite complicated. I for one right now have neither the time nor the inclination to figure out how we go about getting charity status and then jump through the hoops to do it, or to have the financial responsibility and therefore risk of POL if we do not seek charitable status.ali wrote: My own view is that POL should be independent from the CC. The financial side of things are, I assume, not a major responsibility
That aside, I am mostly in agreement with you. Personally I would rather we were independent of the CC, especially after the last few months. However, as administrators we run POL by majority decisions (and big sticks
Paula
All I really need is love, but a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt!
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I am pleased to hear that. Although I do wonder why the CC still had to be involved. Are they the POL Ombudsman?Bellybabe wrote:The complaints referred to in the minutes were complaints made through the correct channels to us. Complaints not made through the complaints procedure are irrelevant.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
You've lost me there, I'm afraid. Why are we applying for charitable status?Bellybabe wrote:
I think the financial side of things is actually quite complicated. I for one right now have neither the time nor the inclination to figure out how we go about getting charity status and then jump through the hoops to do it, or to have the financial responsibility and therefore risk of POL if we do not seek charitable status.
Paula
Well, if we didn't, and we weren't affiliated to the CC, then any financial risk involved in POL would come down to Bob, Marya and myself. I freely admit I know next to nothing about it all really, but I believe the if POL had its own private bank account, and was not a charity, there could be for example tax implications or other complications. I know even the toddler group had some difficulties around their bank account, "profit", taxation and liability and so on. Personally I don't want to touch it!
All I really need is love, but a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt!
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
What were the difficulties that the toddler group had and how were they resolved?Bellybabe wrote:Well, if we didn't, and we weren't affiliated to the CC, then any financial risk involved in POL would come down to Bob, Marya and myself. I freely admit I know next to nothing about it all really, but I believe the if POL had its own private bank account, and was not a charity, there could be for example tax implications or other complications. I know even the toddler group had some difficulties around their bank account, "profit", taxation and liability and so on. Personally I don't want to touch it!
I don't see why POL would need to become a charity, I've not investigated it but it seems a bit cumbersome.
Sorry but I can't remember - I just remember thinking I was glad I wasn't the treasurer! Other than that, as I said, I'm really not clear about all this but I do believe that in financial terms, being affiliated to the CC has its advantages. Aside from financial terms, I remain to be convinced of the advantages, but accept our decision to remain affiliated. I want to be absolutely clear that I am only expressing a personal opinion - and as you can see from my answers to your financial questions, not a brilliantly-informed one! To put things in perspective, I have two young children to look after, three work placements (ie three jobs, but none of them pay any money), work team meetings and training days, four separate supervisors to meet most months, some more than once, and am studying hard which includes weekends away, full day supervision meetings, study group meetings, assignments...; on top of that, POL takes up a substantial amount of my time - reading, posting, moderating, administrating, having regular meetings, emails and phone calls with the other two, and so on. To add into that any kind of form filling, financial paperwork or even just research into our options, would make it all that bit more than I can actually manage. I just felt that since Marya gave her personal response to the question, I should give my personal response too. Sorry it's not more informed or informative but hopefully now you can understand why!Porty wrote:
What were the difficulties that the toddler group had and how were they resolved?
I don't see why POL would need to become a charity, I've not investigated it but it seems a bit cumbersome.
BB
All I really need is love, but a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt!
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
You're a bit of a slacker.Bellybabe wrote:Sorry but I can't remember - I just remember thinking I was glad I wasn't the treasurer! Other than that, as I said, I'm really not clear about all this but I do believe that in financial terms, being affiliated to the CC has its advantages. Aside from financial terms, I remain to be convinced of the advantages, but accept our decision to remain affiliated. I want to be absolutely clear that I am only expressing a personal opinion - and as you can see from my answers to your financial questions, not a brilliantly-informed one! To put things in perspective, I have two young children to look after, three work placements (ie three jobs, but none of them pay any money), work team meetings and training days, four separate supervisors to meet most months, some more than once, and am studying hard which includes weekends away, full day supervision meetings, study group meetings, assignments...; on top of that, POL takes up a substantial amount of my time - reading, posting, moderating, administrating, having regular meetings, emails and phone calls with the other two, and so on. To add into that any kind of form filling, financial paperwork or even just research into our options, would make it all that bit more than I can actually manage. I just felt that since Marya gave her personal response to the question, I should give my personal response too. Sorry it's not more informed or informative but hopefully now you can understand why!Porty wrote:
What were the difficulties that the toddler group had and how were they resolved?
I don't see why POL would need to become a charity, I've not investigated it but it seems a bit cumbersome.
BB
Serioulsy and I'm not just askin BB. What financial protection does PCC gives POL it would be good to know.
What's the difference between an affiliation to the PCC and say an "Interest Group" that is represented on the CC?
And to BB: Surely inland revenue etc were not interesed in the finances of the toddlers hut? They must have better things to do with their time.
What's the difference between an affiliation to the PCC and say an "Interest Group" that is represented on the CC?
And to BB: Surely inland revenue etc were not interesed in the finances of the toddlers hut? They must have better things to do with their time.
Last edited by Porty on 01 Nov 2006, 13:28, edited 1 time in total.
It wasn't IR, it was just a bit messy and complicated and I seem to remember the bank telling the chair and the treasurer that the financial liability came down to them and them only. Which was quite scary.
As for your other questions, one of the others would need to answer as I just don't know. Now let me get back to work.
As for your other questions, one of the others would need to answer as I just don't know. Now let me get back to work.
All I really need is love, but a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt!
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
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Any chance of doing my ironing.Bellybabe wrote:Sorry but I can't remember - I just remember thinking I was glad I wasn't the treasurer! Other than that, as I said, I'm really not clear about all this but I do believe that in financial terms, being affiliated to the CC has its advantages. Aside from financial terms, I remain to be convinced of the advantages, but accept our decision to remain affiliated. I want to be absolutely clear that I am only expressing a personal opinion - and as you can see from my answers to your financial questions, not a brilliantly-informed one! To put things in perspective, I have two young children to look after, three work placements (ie three jobs, but none of them pay any money), work team meetings and training days, four separate supervisors to meet most months, some more than once, and am studying hard which includes weekends away, full day supervision meetings, study group meetings, assignments...; on top of that, POL takes up a substantial amount of my time - reading, posting, moderating, administrating, having regular meetings, emails and phone calls with the other two, and so on. To add into that any kind of form filling, financial paperwork or even just research into our options, would make it all that bit more than I can actually manage. I just felt that since Marya gave her personal response to the question, I should give my personal response too. Sorry it's not more informed or informative but hopefully now you can understand why!Porty wrote:
What were the difficulties that the toddler group had and how were they resolved?
I don't see why POL would need to become a charity, I've not investigated it but it seems a bit cumbersome.
BB
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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I don't think I have much to add to what Marya and Bellybabe have already posted. Because there is money involved, albeit relatively small amounts, it's convenient to have the CC treasurer take care of our finances and, perhaps more importantly, it ensures that there is transparency.
I think that, in principle at least, it makes sense for the CC (the nearest thing we have to a local elected body) to have oversight of our community website. Generally speaking, CC members are very complimentary about Portobello Online though the forums obviously have their critics.
It is fair to say that most CC members probably have little or no experience of using a discussion forum and fail to appreciate either the benefits or the difficulties involved.
We have also been aware for some time of an orchestrated campaign to discredit the forum and the way in which it is moderated, which has led to some ridiculous outbursts at recent meetings, including Lewis Waugh's 'poisoning the community' speech. Lewis is a former member of the CC.
We could of course walk away from the CC at any time, and we have come close to doing so. In many ways this would make things much easier, particularly with respect to the way we moderate the discussion forums.
It remains an option but for the present we are happy to work with the sub-committee. Either way, it would be interesting to explore the possible benefits of charitable status and we would welcome any advice on this front.
I think that, in principle at least, it makes sense for the CC (the nearest thing we have to a local elected body) to have oversight of our community website. Generally speaking, CC members are very complimentary about Portobello Online though the forums obviously have their critics.
It is fair to say that most CC members probably have little or no experience of using a discussion forum and fail to appreciate either the benefits or the difficulties involved.
We have also been aware for some time of an orchestrated campaign to discredit the forum and the way in which it is moderated, which has led to some ridiculous outbursts at recent meetings, including Lewis Waugh's 'poisoning the community' speech. Lewis is a former member of the CC.
We could of course walk away from the CC at any time, and we have come close to doing so. In many ways this would make things much easier, particularly with respect to the way we moderate the discussion forums.
It remains an option but for the present we are happy to work with the sub-committee. Either way, it would be interesting to explore the possible benefits of charitable status and we would welcome any advice on this front.
pol versus pcc
A website Forum is just a grown up name for a chat room. This forum is no different to any other chat rooms I have looked at as it is dominated by a handful of people who post comments and opinions like there is no tomorrow. Take the Portobello Matters thread on the High School (please). 150 pages and still counting!!! Where on earth do these people get the time to send in all this stuff? Do they not have jobs, social lives, families or pals? Anyway, after witnessing Bob's rather defensive and uncomfortable response to questions raised at last week's PCC meeting I think it is an excellent idea for POL to sever all ties with the PCC and stand alone. It would mean that as a PCC member I would, at last, be able to say the chat room is nothing to do with me. Oh, and please remove the banner from the front of the town hall while you're at it. It isnae very attractive on such a splendid building. Right, that's me for another few weeks as I've got a job, a social life, a family and loads of pals. And I've Just been told my dinner is on the table. Cheers y'all.
Prom cycling for all.
Re: pol versus pcc
I've not got a job( decided to give up and retire!)tom nimmo wrote: I've got a job, a social life, a family and loads of pals.
But I don't spend all my waking hours on the forum posting!!!
There's plenty other things to do!!
This is a great forum and I like it, everyone is so friendly!
It saddens me when someone like you comes along and says these horrible things about it
Last edited by arachnid on 06 Nov 2006, 00:48, edited 1 time in total.
Why be scared????
Re: pol versus pcc
Forum software is distinct from chatroom software in many ways.tom nimmo wrote:A website Forum is just a grown up name for a chat room. This forum is no different to any other chat rooms I have looked at as it is dominated by a handful of people who post comments and opinions like there is no tomorrow. Take the Portobello Matters thread on the High School (please). 150 pages and still counting!!! Where on earth do these people get the time to send in all this stuff? Do they not have jobs, social lives, families or pals? Anyway, after witnessing Bob's rather defensive and uncomfortable response to questions raised at last week's PCC meeting I think it is an excellent idea for POL to sever all ties with the PCC and stand alone. It would mean that as a PCC member I would, at last, be able to say the chat room is nothing to do with me. Oh, and please remove the banner from the front of the town hall while you're at it. It isnae very attractive on such a splendid building. Right, that's me for another few weeks as I've got a job, a social life, a family and loads of pals. And I've Just been told my dinner is on the table. Cheers y'all.
The people who post lots should be well aware that quality does not equate with quantity, as evidenced by this outburst of yours - which is opinionated rubbish.
The people who "find the time" - at least the ones I know, are very busy people. It's probably because and not despite the fact that they are very active that they have reasons and motivation to get stuck into a hot local topic.
I'd be equally happy for you to sever ties with POL if it would mean not having to wade through twaddle like your post.
I love the POL banner.
p.s. no offence to the quality of the music on my Rosie Nimmo cd, but can I have permission to use it as a coaster? I'm anxious not to get coffee rings on my desk.
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Re: pol versus pcc
tom nimmo wrote:A website Forum is just a grown up name for a chat room etc, etc..
Bob Jefferson wrote:We have also been aware for some time of an orchestrated campaign to discredit the forum and the way in which it is moderated
Re: pol versus pcc
Tom i would be careful about casting aspersion on people who have opinions and time on their hands just because they don't have either a family or a job. It might blow up in your face.tom nimmo wrote: Do they not have jobs, social lives, families or pals? ..........Right, that's me for another few weeks as I've got a job, a social life, a family and loads of pals.
As a matter of interest and to help answer your question, I had a quick look at the top ten posters here on POL.. We have 16 children between us (and their partners) with one on the way in January. Many of those kids post here from time to time. We have a software specialist, three mortgage brokers, a police support worker, an alcohol councillor, a secondary teacher, two registers of scotland staff, a PA for 3 MSP's, and a member of the PHS support staff, so thats ten out of ten on the job front. And if you count the latter, 4 of those people find time to be community councillors. You may remember some of them, as almost all attended the PCATS quiz night at the Masonic that you hosted very well.
The ones I know well have wide circle of friends. Something like 8 out of 10 have university degrees. One of them belly dances, another is a jalapeno grower, another is learning the saxaphone, ones an accomplished tennis player, one almost played rugby for scotland, two were head boys of Portobello high School, one started an award winning community website. at least one likes being spanked, I could go on... (you could get a one-liner in there tom)Its pretty much the same story with the 11 to 20 group too.
You have actullay provided a perfect example of the ignorance thats rife among your cronies, most of whom have passed judgment on hearsay. Lewis Waugh being one that springs to mind. They are a dangerous bunch who believe in free speech right up until someone challenges their assertions and statements.
Last edited by Porty on 06 Nov 2006, 00:39, edited 1 time in total.
Re: pol versus pcc
Others have replied more eloquently than me, so I will add nothing except that's the most bitter and twisted post I've seen from anyone in a long time.tom nimmo wrote:A website Forum is just a grown up name for a chat room. This forum is no different to any other chat rooms I have looked at as it is dominated by a handful of people who post comments and opinions like there is no tomorrow. Take the Portobello Matters thread on the High School (please). 150 pages and still counting!!! Where on earth do these people get the time to send in all this stuff? Do they not have jobs, social lives, families or pals? Anyway, after witnessing Bob's rather defensive and uncomfortable response to questions raised at last week's PCC meeting I think it is an excellent idea for POL to sever all ties with the PCC and stand alone. It would mean that as a PCC member I would, at last, be able to say the chat room is nothing to do with me. Oh, and please remove the banner from the front of the town hall while you're at it. It isnae very attractive on such a splendid building. Right, that's me for another few weeks as I've got a job, a social life, a family and loads of pals. And I've Just been told my dinner is on the table. Cheers y'all.
Oh, I'm also a manager at a major insurance company with an IQ that qualifies me for membership of Mensa, and have an active social life.
But then again, I've always thought that a major failing some people have is judging other people when they know next to nothing about them.
Re: pol versus pcc
If the questions raised were referring to POL, they should presumably have been left until the POL representative was there to answer them, rather than aimed at someone who is not there to answer questions about POL. If they weren't about POL, I fail to see the relevance.tom nimmo wrote: after witnessing Bob's rather defensive and uncomfortable response to questions raised at last week's PCC meeting
That comment would have far more impact if it weren't made right here in the "chat room". Wishing to dissociate yourself from it would be much more understandable if you actually did it, rather than posting. Although naturally POL would be much the worse without your constructive criticism.tom nimmo wrote: as a PCC member I would, at last, be able to say the chat room is nothing to do with me.
All I really need is love, but a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt!
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
Oh yes, and I forgot...
Marya wrote: 6) The moderators undertake to enforce the Posting Guidelines fairly and to the best of their ability and welcome the support of the Community Council in this difficult task.
Excellent example of the kind of "support" Portobello Community Council is offering us, from one of "our" community councillors. Glad to see it wasn't just whitewash, all that stuff I heard about us being "supported" by the PCC.tom nimmo wrote:I think it is an excellent idea for POL to sever all ties with the PCC and stand alone. It would mean that as a PCC member I would, at last, be able to say the chat room is nothing to do with me. Oh, and please remove the banner from the front of the town hall while you're at it. It isnae very attractive on such a splendid building.
All I really need is love, but a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt!
-Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts, by Charles M. Schulz)
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Tom - I hope you enjoyed your dinner.
Although I found the tone of your recent post quite insulting, it could of course be easily applied to some members of the PPC.
I do happen to agree with you regarding the banner hanging off the Town Hall. It should only be hung there from time to time on a temporary basis.
Although I found the tone of your recent post quite insulting, it could of course be easily applied to some members of the PPC.
I do happen to agree with you regarding the banner hanging off the Town Hall. It should only be hung there from time to time on a temporary basis.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
Re: pol versus pcc
...and what on earth gives you the right to tell anybody else how they should spend their spare time. Do you think it would be acceptable to comment if our hobby was crocheting, or stamp collectingtom nimmo wrote:Where on earth do these people get the time to send in all this stuff? Do they not have jobs, social lives, families or pals?
As it happens, I run my own small but successful business, am the single parent of two teeenage girls and yes surprise surprise I have some friends and a social life too...what an impressive multi-tasking individual I am