Political Correctness - How far should we go

[Pal of Porty]

Well intentioned towards the people they might feel would be offended of course

‘They might feel would be offended’ is of course entirely subjective and as such can be wide of the mark. Often words or phrases used are so anodyne, they hide reality.

Can school sports days be truly competitive?I For competition to occur you have to have a group with similar potential at least. The same people excelled at their individual sports every year at my school, so it wasn't really much of a contest.

Glad to see that they were allowed to excel at something.

As to the good at sports/bad at books type you refer to, that's a bit of a stereotype itself. Was menzies campbell a bottom of the class type?

Could not agree more they are both a bit of a stereotype.

Noone could get away with, 'If you want a *** for a neighbour, vote labour' or 'Simon Hughes, the straight candidate' anymore in campaign literature.

Whether they could get away with it or not, if anyone handed me a leaflet like that they would never get my vote again.

Being 'un pc' is merely a convenient way of proclaiming your individuality without having to actually think for yourself.

I do not proclaim to be 'un pc' but I do often have difficulty thinking for myself.

[Porty]

I am not allowed to say Lassie or laddie, which I think is an affront to my own cultural heritage.

I agree. What if its a dog?

[seanie]

I agree totally with the sentiments of the paragraph but challenge the use of "well intentioned". Well intentioned to what and to whom?

Political Correctness, at least in general, is an attempt to avoid unnecessary offence. If a term does cause offence, and an alternative can be used, I’d lean towards the alternative. It may be PC but it’s not greatly different from basic politeness.

Political Correctness may be cackhanded at times. The effort not to cause offence may go to absurd lengths. But its impact is hugely exaggerated. Obscure anecdotes and urban myths take on the mantle of universal truth. One person, one time, objects to a word, and next thing people are claiming the word’s been “bannedâ€

[Epykat]

Or how about no crosses on the hot cross buns in case it offended those of us who are not Christian? . Also true!

Have you got an example of any baker who actually removed the crosses from the buns??

You may have heard about this but did it actually happen? What do you mean by "true"?

Yes it actually happened, in a baker's shop in Wigton, Cumbria last Easter. And I know, coz I was there when my sister asked for the Hot Cross Buns and was given the above explanation as to why they didn't have any

[ali]

Or how about no crosses on the hot cross buns in case it offended those of us who are not Christian? . Also true!

Have you got an example of any baker who actually removed the crosses from the buns??

You may have heard about this but did it actually happen? What do you mean by "true"?

Yes it actually happened, in a baker's shop in Wigton, Cumbria last Easter. And I know, coz I was there when my sister asked for the Hot Cross Buns and was given the above explanation as to why they didn't have any

Well, I expect that you would've told them in no uncertain terms how ridiculous that was, then!! (could you get them without crosses??)

[Dave Connelly]

I am not aloowed to call a black person Black.

Why's that?

I was given a row for it at work, silly isn't it.

[Robin!]

PC is going OTT.

Blackboards are now called chalk boards. That in it's self is PC gone mad.

[Epykat]

Have you got an example of any baker who actually removed the crosses from the buns??

You may have heard about this but did it actually happen? What do you mean by "true"?

Yes it actually happened, in a baker's shop in Wigton, Cumbria last Easter. And I know, coz I was there when my sister asked for the Hot Cross Buns and was given the above explanation as to why they didn't have any

Well, I expect that you would've told them in no uncertain terms how ridiculous that was, then!! (could you get them without crosses??)

Oh how we laughed . Yes, you could get them without crosses - not sure what they called them though. On a similar vein somebody at work got her usual annual Whiskas calendar (I know, I know.....sad woman) and Xmas and Easter were missed out of it. When she enquired why she was given the same reasons as the hot cross bun saga.

[seanie]

Blackboards are now called chalk boards. That in it's self is PC gone mad.

Manufacturers frequently refer to blackboards as chalkboards. I don't know why. I've no reason to think it's down to Political Correctness. Personally I refer to them as blackboards and I've never been called upon it.

In any event blackboards are dying out because they're gradually being replaced by interactive whiteboards.

In any event who cares?

Does calling a blackboard a chalkboard really induce trauma?

Whether it's PC or not I can scarcely think of an issue that's lower on my list of political concerns than what blackboards should be called.

[seanie]

I’ve been involved in several arguments about Political Correctness and the acceptable use of language. And it’s usually involved language that wouldn’t be acceptable here. However I’ve thought of an analogy.

I was listening to the radio the other week, an interview with Daniel Barenboim. He was asked about performing Wagner, which has caused controversy. He said he absolutely understood people’s negative reaction to the music. People had watched their loved ones marched to the gas chambers whilst Wagner played on the camp loudspeakers. Given that context it would be entirely wrong to expect them to be able to listen to the music. But he also said that those associations were not experienced by other people and it would be wrong to deny them the opportunity of listening to the music.

Now if Wagner came on the radio I wouldn’t even know it. To me it’d just be a piece of music with no particular cultural or emotional references. It wouldn’t offend me. But at the same time I‘d think twice before playing Wagner to a roomful of elderly Jews. Because I’m aware that the music could have painful associations for them.

Now such extreme connotations may be rare, but just as that can be true for music it’s true for words, and indeed images.

A word or image that might be entirely innocuous to me could be distressing or offensive to someone else. Now to me that wouldn’t make that word or image inherently unacceptable. But it’d make me very careful how I used it. I’d want to satisfy myself that the use was justified set against the potential for offence because, most of the time anyway, I’m not seeking to offend people. So most of the time I avoid words if I know they’ve offensive connotations since, even though they may not offend me, I have consideration for other people’s feelings.

To do otherwise may be un-PC. But it’s also rude.

[Robin!]

Blackboards are now called chalk boards. That in it's self is PC gone mad.

Manufacturers frequently refer to blackboards as chalkboards. I don't know why. I've no reason to think it's down to Political Correctness. Personally I refer to them as blackboards and I've never been called upon it.

In any event blackboards are dying out because they're gradually being replaced by interactive whiteboards.

In any event who cares?

Does calling a blackboard a chalkboard really induce trauma?

Whether it's PC or not I can scarcely think of an issue that's lower on my list of political concerns than what blackboards should be called.

I dont care, its always been a blackboard to me and always will, but I've heard that schools dont allow them to be called "Blackboards". And Blah blah Black sheep is not allowed.

And it annoys me, when shopping mauls ban santa grottos.

[xxxx]

I dont care, its always been a blackboard to me and always will, but I've heard that schools dont allow them to be called "Blackboards". And Blah blah Black sheep is not allowed.

And it annoys me, when shopping mauls ban santa grottos.

I really envy you, that in this vale of tears we call humanity,these are the things that outrage you .

[xxxx]

Oh how we laughed . Yes, you could get them without crosses - not sure what they called them though.

Hot buns, I suppose

[foxy]

Oh how we laughed . Yes, you could get them without crosses - not sure what they called them though.

Hot buns, I suppose

[Epykat]

Oh how we laughed . Yes, you could get them without crosses - not sure what they called them though.

Hot buns, I suppose

Or cold crossless buns even?

[Epykat]

A word or image that might be entirely innocuous to me could be distressing or offensive to someone else. Now to me that wouldn’t make that word or image inherently unacceptable. But it’d make me very careful how I used it. I’d want to satisfy myself that the use was justified set against the potential for offence because, most of the time anyway, I’m not seeking to offend people. So most of the time I avoid words if I know they’ve offensive connotations since, even though they may not offend me, I have consideration for other people’s feelings

But how would you know? Fair enough if you know that you're in a room full of elderly Jewish people but most of the time people just say things off the top of their head and don't think about it. If you had to stop and think that what you were thinking of saying might potentially offend the person or persons you were thinking of saying it to, nobody would ever say anything! It's a totally different thing if you say something deliberately to offend somebody. Personally, I think something like the hot cross bun saga is more offensive to people who are Christian than to the people who are not - who probably didn't find the crosses offensive in any way to begin with. That scenario is total PC gone mad and does really annoy me.

[xxxx]

That scenario is total PC gone mad and does really annoy me.

A personal message from Michael Winner:
<img src="http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/med ... winner.jpg">

Calm down,dear, its only an uncrossed bun

[Green Onions]

I believe that the majority of us think, consciously or unconsciously, about our audience before we speak. That is why we are probably happy to swear in some settings, but not in others. Malcolm Gladwell in Blink, The Power of Thinking Without Thinking talks about how quickly we are able to process information and make decisions on it.

Gladwell hopes to convince us that our snap judgements and first impressions can be educated and controlled so instead of merely praising the mysterious process of instinct and intuition he is interested in those moments when our instincts betray us, the situations where our powers of rapid cognition can go awry, where we fail to read the signs. Most disturbing of all is the degree to which culturally determined preconceptions and prejudices control us. Without reducing matters to racism and sexism Gladwell shows us that there are facts about people’s appearance—their size or shape or color or sex—that can trigger a very similar set of powerful associations which explains why utter mediocrities (such as U.S. President Warren Harding) can sometimes end up in positions of enormous responsibility; or why tall people earn substantially more than their shorter colleagues; or why car salesmen unconsciously charge prices according to race and gender.

I believe the whole PC thing is just about getting people to question their "culturally determined preconceptions and prejudices" and that can only generally be a good thing.

[Porty]

Welcome to you Green Onions . Are you a Booker T and the MG's fan or is it something else altogether?

[Green Onions]

Green Onions was a nickname I was called at school for a while. Started around the time the song was last re-released (gives you a hint of my age), but was based on word association rather than my liking for the band.

[Porty]

Hey thanks for that. Sounds like you fit into the most common age bracket round here!!!

[Dadaist]

Our other thread about PC. Yay! Two PC threads!

[Marguerite-the-Poet]

I’ve been involved in several arguments about Political Correctness and the acceptable use of language. And it’s usually involved language that wouldn’t be acceptable here. However I’ve thought of an analogy.

I was listening to the radio the other week, an interview with Daniel Barenboim. He was asked about performing Wagner, which has caused controversy. He said he absolutely understood people’s negative reaction to the music. People had watched their loved ones marched to the gas chambers whilst Wagner played on the camp loudspeakers. Given that context it would be entirely wrong to expect them to be able to listen to the music. But he also said that those associations were not experienced by other people and it would be wrong to deny them the opportunity of listening to the music.

Now if Wagner came on the radio I wouldn’t even know it. To me it’d just be a piece of music with no particular cultural or emotional references. It wouldn’t offend me. But at the same time I‘d think twice before playing Wagner to a roomful of elderly Jews. Because I’m aware that the music could have painful associations for them.

Now such extreme connotations may be rare, but just as that can be true for music it’s true for words, and indeed images.

A word or image that might be entirely innocuous to me could be distressing or offensive to someone else. Now to me that wouldn’t make that word or image inherently unacceptable. But it’d make me very careful how I used it. I’d want to satisfy myself that the use was justified set against the potential for offence because, most of the time anyway, I’m not seeking to offend people. So most of the time I avoid words if I know they’ve offensive connotations since, even though they may not offend me, I have consideration for other people’s feelings.

To do otherwise may be un-PC. But it’s also rude.

Hi Seanie,

You've made some valid comments worthy of consideration. Language weaves itself throughout many avenues of cultural transformations. The most important thing that I have learned is to avoid sitting in judgment of a comment or condemn it prior to asking the individual what do you exactly mean when you wrote blah blah blah. The reason for this is that many common phrases (slang terms) in one country may be interpreted differently elsewhere. American slang is used quite often in my part of the world which is quite innocent. If people tend to be prejudiced against a nationality or a person's country then they will tend to read into it what they wish to perceive to be "their" truth which may not at all be necessarily the actual truth in content that was originally written. In all fairness to everyone, it is always best to ask questions, preserving the right of an individual to clarify their remarks if necessary therefore avoiding prejudice and unjustly labeling an innocent person as being rude when that wasn't the intention of the individual. Since I am fairly new to this group, I've noticed that there is a lot of kidding around which leaves the door open to misunderstandings. Once again, courtesy extended to every member should be welcomed prior to condemnation of comments made. Clarification restored for sake of keeping a community vibrant and congenial preserves healthy, robust exchanges.