Punch Pubs in Portobello - come to a new opening !

[bearcub]

And whilst we argue for a more democratic way of deciding planning applications, we're supposed to settle for crumbs from the table when a business deems that they are in "receive" mode ?

The difference in attitude to Duddingston properties and Punch taverns is as instructive as it is hypocritical.

And did Duddingston Properties sign on here and ask us for our opinions?

And yes, I understand what you're getting at, but maybe the difference in attitude is very instructive. Maybe if Duddingston Properties had asked the local population their opinions first they may have been persuaded otherwise - remember they're a property developer, not a major supermarket chain, so they could have proposed anything for that site.

[Dadaist]

we can't hold what Punch Taverns may, or may not, have done in the past against them

Whoah. As far as I knew, time ran forwards. So we were supposed to judge them on - what - the future? Are you Dr Who?

No, I'm someone who believes that everyone deserves to be judged on what they do in the present, not what they may have done in the past. People, and corporations, do change and we should take what we receive at face-value instead of dredging up what may have happened in the past.

Anyway, you are taking Sue as being 'Punch Taverns the corporation', she is not, she only works for them. If Sue is doing something like this - asking a local forum for opinions - then, as far as I'm concerned, she's taking a position that many corporations should take.

BTW, I work for Scottish Widows, does that mean I should be judged on something they may have done to someone in the past if I'm trying to make the most of my position at the moment??

1. There is no such thing as the "present". Everything I have said about Punch is current anyway. Unless you're operating some new, and bizarre, morality - do you apply this criteria to crime?

I'm not dredging up things that may have happened. I am highlighting things that *are* happening, such as a franchise operator's attitude to their operators. You need to read "Fast Food Nation" at least, dude.

2. Sue is a *director*. I assume you don't occupy such lofty status.

[Dadaist]

And whilst we argue for a more democratic way of deciding planning applications, we're supposed to settle for crumbs from the table when a business deems that they are in "receive" mode ?

The difference in attitude to Duddingston properties and Punch taverns is as instructive as it is hypocritical.

And did Duddingston Properties sign on here and ask us for our opinions?

And yes, I understand what you're getting at, but maybe the difference in attitude is very instructive. Maybe if Duddingston Properties had asked the local population their opinions first they may have been persuaded otherwise - remember they're a property developer, not a major supermarket chain, so they could have proposed anything for that site.

If you think a company can be persuaded not to want to make maximum profit you're even more deluded than I am in my outdated views on "evil corporations". And I don't think you do understand what I'm getting at - that it's ok to slag of Duddingston but not OK to slag off Punch.

[bearcub]

Whoah. As far as I knew, time ran forwards. So we were supposed to judge them on - what - the future? Are you Dr Who?

2. Sue is a *director*. I assume you don't occupy such lofty status.

Thanks for that 'assumption'

[Bob Jefferson]

You see what you have started Sue? You are still coming to our skittles night I presume?

[bearcub]

And did Duddingston Properties sign on here and ask us for our opinions?

And yes, I understand what you're getting at, but maybe the difference in attitude is very instructive. Maybe if Duddingston Properties had asked the local population their opinions first they may have been persuaded otherwise - remember they're a property developer, not a major supermarket chain, so they could have proposed anything for that site.

If you think a company can be persuaded not to want to make maximum profit you're even more deluded than I am in my outdated views on "evil corporations". And I don't think you do understand what I'm getting at - that it's ok to slag of Duddingston but not OK to slag off Punch.

And maybe asking people what they want is a way to make maximum profit? It certainly will attract more punters than giving them something they're only told they want.

[Jamesie]

Is it true Sue is opening up the Figgate Whins for one night only for the next POL night out (private party)?

[Epykat]

You are still coming to our skittles night I presume?

(Was I up a ladder and missed that too?)

[bearcub]

And did Duddingston Properties sign on here and ask us for our opinions?

And yes, I understand what you're getting at, but maybe the difference in attitude is very instructive. Maybe if Duddingston Properties had asked the local population their opinions first they may have been persuaded otherwise - remember they're a property developer, not a major supermarket chain, so they could have proposed anything for that site.

If you think a company can be persuaded not to want to make maximum profit you're even more deluded than I am in my outdated views on "evil corporations". And I don't think you do understand what I'm getting at - that it's ok to slag of Duddingston but not OK to slag off Punch.

And maybe you didn't understand what I'm getting at, it's ok to slag Duddingston because they never asked our opinion. Punch, in the guise of Sue, have.

[Bob Jefferson]

Is it true Sue is opening up the Figgate Whins for one night only for the next POL night out (private party)?

Excellent idea, and then back to DG's afterwards?

[Bob Jefferson]

You are still coming to our skittles night I presume?

(Was I up a ladder and missed that too?)

Why are we waiting, why are we waiting, why oh why etc.

[bearcub]

You are still coming to our skittles night I presume?

(Was I up a ladder and missed that too?)

Why are we waiting, why are we waiting, why oh why etc.

I seem to remember a post where a skittle night was the next POL night-out Looking forward to it if it is.....as long as someone else organises

[Dadaist]

2. Sue is a *director*. I assume you don't occupy such lofty status.

Thanks for that 'assumption'

You're welcome. In the thread on the Pope, anger at their policy on HIV is directed at the top, where decisions are made. Nobody is suggesting that ordinary catholics are to blame for the damage this policy causes.

By that token, I tend not to level criticism at the workers of a company when it does something wrong. If anything, they are the people the company exploit most - if you notice, Brian's defence of corporations mentions their loyalty to shareholders and customers but not workers - too often they are victims too, like the Maxwell pensioners or perhaps the workers fired by Dyson on moving production overseas, to name but a couple.

An interesting analogy here is big finance companies' use of temp agencies and casualisation, in comparison to large companies like Punch's use of tenant landlords to do the work and create profit. But this is a separate topic and I would annoy wangi and Sandra if I started to diversify.

[Dadaist]

If you think a company can be persuaded not to want to make maximum profit you're even more deluded than I am in my outdated views on "evil corporations". And I don't think you do understand what I'm getting at - that it's ok to slag of Duddingston but not OK to slag off Punch.

And maybe you didn't understand what I'm getting at, it's ok to slag Duddingston because they never asked our opinion. Punch, in the guise of Sue, have.

So if a bad person asks your opinion on how he should smack you in the face, not only should you not judge him on his past record as a thug, but you should be thankful that he has canvassed you? Weird!!!!

[bearcub]

Thanks for that 'assumption'

I would annoy wangi and Sandra if I started to diversify.

And me, when it comes to Sandra I could discuss with you Finance companies treat their temp staff but this is neither the time nor the place

[bearcub]

So if a bad person asks your opinion on how he should smack you in the face, not only should you not judge him on his past record as a thug, but you should be thankful that he has canvassed you? Weird!!!!

Yep, that's me

[Bob Jefferson]

By that token, I tend not to level criticism at the workers of a company when it does something wrong.

Phew, that's a relief. I was starting to feel a bit guilty about Blair Peach, Liddle Towers, the miners' strike, Stop Torness and much else since. Glad to hear I'm officially off the hook.

[Dadaist]

By that token, I tend not to level criticism at the workers of a company when it does something wrong.

Phew, that's a relief. I was starting to feel a bit guilty about Blair Peach, Liddle Towers, the miners' strike, Stop Torness and much else since. Glad to hear I'm officially off the hook.

According to Class War, below Sergeant is working class. Although they did have a Page 3 "Hospitalized Copper" and a campaign to phone up this Chief Constable called Ibbett after he had a heart attack (which he survived) and ask for "the widow Ibbett".

But I have never been in the ACAB crew.

[Poppy]

ACAB

Excuse late evening ignorance - but what's ACAB?

[Dadaist]

All Coppers Are B*****ds

an old fashioned way of insulting Peel's finest. then you would get to fall down some stairs.

[Poppy]

All Coppers Are B*****ds

an old fashioned way of insulting Peel's finest. then you would get to fall down some stairs.

Aha! Thank you.

[Brian McCrow]

Dadaist

I am trying to understand the logic you use in your arguments but have failed. We argued against Duddingston because they were proposing a Superstore, which would have damaged Portobello and its traders etc whereas we are trying to welcome Punch because they appear to be supporting new and welcome initiatives. What's hypocritical about this?

I would also welcome some logic argument from you rather than the tub thumping style you are using. Flinging insults around doesn't convince anyone.

What kind of society would you propose in place of businesses making an effort to deliver products and services that meet the needs of consumers while looking after their stakeholders, which includes their staff and suppliers. Of course, there are examples of badly run companies but you can't condemn the rest as a result.

Why can't you be civilised and apologise?

I recall from another part of the Forum that you didn't take criticism very well and demanded that a post was removed.

[Dadaist]

Dadaist

I am trying to understand the logic you use in your arguments but have failed. We argued against Duddingston because they were proposing a Superstore, which would have damaged Portobello and its traders etc whereas we are trying to welcome Punch because they appear to be supporting new and welcome initiatives. What's hypocritical about this?

I would also welcome some logic argument from you rather than the tub thumping style you are using. Flinging insults around doesn't convince anyone.

What kind of society would you propose in place of businesses making an effort to deliver products and services that meet the needs of consumers while looking after their stakeholders, which includes their staff and suppliers. Of course, there are examples of badly run companies but you can't condemn the rest as a result.

Why can't you be civilised and apologise?

I recall from another part of the Forum that you didn't take criticism very well and demanded that a post was removed.

Dude, in the instance you're referring to, the criticism came from you.This forum has rules and although I may be argumentative, I actually try to abide by them as I have run foul of them before. I didn't demand that a post was removed - I don't have that power. But the moderator in that instance obviously agreed with me.

Just as it should be allowed for someone to support Duddingston properties, so it should be allowed for someone to criticise Punch. It's as ludicrous to shout "stop being so positive" to the former as it is "stop being so negative" to the latter.

If you feel that any of my posts have contravened the rules of this forum, I suggest you highlight that fact with our moderation team. I make no apologies for my "tub-thumping" style, just as I demand none for your boring sermons.

[Pal of Porty]

....What kind of society would you propose in place of businesses making an effort to deliver products and services that meet the needs of consumers while looking after their stakeholders, which includes their staff and suppliers.

One where they achieve it.

[Pal of Porty]

I heard a rumour today that two people were ready to take over the Whins and they were going to be styling it on Siglos in Leith.

[Poppy]

My trendy young informant at work tells me that Siglo's is in Cowgate - see this http://www.siglo-edinburgh.com

Plenty eye-candy for you and your pal??!!

[Pal of Porty]

Thanks for correction Poppy. I was getting confused with Bar Sirius, which is in Leith.

Mind you, having had a look at your link I have decided what type of pub I am going to vote for. Bye Bye Ormelie

[Maria]

Hen/stag parties, amateur pole dancing nights, 3.00 a.m. closing

All I wanted was a lick of paint...and a panini of course! Mind you noticed that Greggs now offer paninis

[Pal of Porty]

...Mind you noticed that Greggs now offer paninis:D

....and Fords for 99p

[Jamesie]

My trendy young informant at work tells me that Siglo's is in Cowgate - see this http://www.siglo-edinburgh.com

Plenty eye-candy for you and your pal??!!

Was going to make the same correction but didn't want to show up the more "senior" board members - you're too cruel Poppy

[Poppy]

Jamesie said

Was going to make the same correction but didn't want to show up the more "senior" board members - you're too cruel Poppy

Hey, J, don't tell anyone else, but I'm even older than PoP!!

[Pal of Porty]

I never mind being corrected at anything - it's the only way you learn!

[Dadaist]

Hen/stag parties, amateur pole dancing nights, 3.00 a.m. closing

All I wanted was a lick of paint...and a panini of course! Mind you noticed that Greggs now offer paninis

But Sue has come here to listen to us. Surely if we don't want this, it won't happen. It's a great way for business to communicate, after all. Punch have decided to involve POL in their decision making, so surely we can just use our veto?

[bellybabe]

Well, I've not been around much lately, and it's taken all night to catch up (and most of it just on this thread). Two things have kept me away - last week, I was busy entertaining my brother and his family with underground tours, museums, dolphin watching and other thrilling things. This week I was busy having a huge e-fight with a nasty evil man I like to call ex-husband (among other things that won't get though the filter). I mention this because, having read through this whole thread, I feel like I've not missed anything at all - this thread reads almost exactly like the kind of fight we've been having all week. Same tactics. Similar pedantry, point scoring, and rogue apostrophes. Thanks for making me feel so at home, it's like I was never away...

Oh, one more thing - I'm not really that interested in this argument, but I don't like the underhandedness of some of the comments I've read. It really is just like the fight I've had with my ex-husband...and this seems a strange setting for that kind of "discussion".

BB

[Dadaist]

So the argument started when your ex phoned you up pretending to want your opinion, where really he was just a puppet of an evil international conspiracy, bent on world domination ?