Schadenfreude

[Maria]

On the day they start work on the Seafield/King's Road roundabout let's just consider how much worse it could be if we were also getting a tram line.

A colleague of Homer's has just arrived at work at the top of Leith Walk.
The workmate is an ardent Green. He doesn't own a car, but had hired one for the weekend and had to return it to Haymarket.

It took him 1 hr 35 mins to make the journey from Morningside to Haymarket. It then took him, on the number 26, a further 50 mins to make the journey from Haymarket to the top of the walk

[Bazza]

Of course, on a bike it's a real pleasure just now It still takes me just 20 minutes to get from Porty to Bonnington along London Road and Leith Walk.

[Maria]

Could you give me a backie on Wed morning Bazza?

[Grunk]

I know it makes sense, so it would probably never happen...

But wouldn't the tram just follow the disused train lines? the ones that go from Leith to everywhere else in the city? There's even tracks there already.

Of course, it costs a lot more money and hassle to dig up the roads, so they'll probably do that instead.

[Maria]

Don't be daft Grunk. The trams are going where the property developers want them to go.

[Bazza]

I think Glasgow's getting tram-trains, isn't it? They'll use the existing rail lines, but they'll also be able to use new on-street tram lines.

And no, you can't get a backy!

[mr magnolia]

I

But wouldn't the tram just follow the disused train lines? the ones that go from Leith to everywhere else in the city? There's even tracks there already.

Of course, it costs a lot more money and hassle to dig up the roads, so they'll probably do that instead.

I think the 'vision' for the tram lines in our direction would take them along the route of the No. 26, although the logic of a tram line that runs along the edge of the catchment area instead of through the middle defeats me.

[Porty]

Something bad must have happened in the haymarket area yesterday morning. I got the 26 to porty at about 9 45 and the bus driver at Kings Road thought that the bus i was on was his changeover, it wasn't, my bus was 1 hr 10 mins late.

Is there a possibility that trams could come to porty, if so we could get to work on the preliminaries-

Portobello Residents Against Tram Schemes?

Its vital we start an against campaign group before we find out anything about the proposal. The city expects.

[Grunk]

I think the 'vision' for the tram lines in our direction would take them along the route of the No. 26, although the logic of a tram line that runs along the edge of the catchment area instead of through the middle defeats me.

Of course that makes more sense. Make the trams go along the same route as the bus service. That's probably why they're going to Leith since 20% of all Edinburgh buses already go there.

The trams in London worked really well, because they followed a non-existing route, which linked areas around london together (the existing links generally all go to the city centre), giving good cross district access

[SoupDragon]

Of course you're all missing the main point.
We didn't vote for a congestion charge in the referendum, so I think its pay back time
There WILL be congestion
How else to explain tram works, roundabouts being redone and all the roadworks all happening at the same time?

[Grunk]

It's all relative.

They improve public transport by making private transport much worse and increasing fuel prices.

we should all be able to claim tax back on the fuel we use while we are stuck in traffic due to poorly planned traffic management systems and roadworks.

[wangi]

Or you could just use an alternative method of transport...

And regarding trams should use existing rail lines - do you seriously think a tram routed Leith-Seafield-Porty-Cameron Toll-Morningside-Georgie-Haymarket-Waverley would get any custom?

There's more of an argument to use the disused North Edinburgh lines, indeed the Granton loop should do just that. Also the Scotland St tunnel is a possibility...

[Grunk]

Or you could just use an alternative method of transport...

I cycle quite a lot, but you're not supposed to use the prom, they claim that they are upgrading the road because cyclists keep dying.

But in general the quality of the designated cycle routes are very poor. I've had 6 punctures in the past year from Porty high st. alone due to broken glass and shards of metal, not to mention all the potholes between porty and fife.

And regarding trams should use existing rail lines - do you seriously think a tram routed Leith-Seafield-Porty-Cameron Toll-Morningside-Georgie-Haymarket-Waverley would get any custom?

Yes.
After all, they laid the railway along that route for a reason.

Surely if you could get on a tram that took you to the city-centre in 10 minutes you'd take that option over the bus that takes anywhere between 40 mins and 1 hr 20? (I've taken many a trip to morningside which has taken over 2hrs) Especially if it was integrated into the rest of the network, giving access to the airport etc.

[SoupDragon]

Or you could just use an alternative method of transport...

Like flying?
Its the 21st century, we should all be wearing silver suits and have jet back packs by now.
Until mine arrives I will be on the window ledge flapping my arms like a fledgling.

[wangi]

I cycle quite a lot, but you're not supposed to use the prom, they claim that they are upgrading the road because cyclists keep dying.

But in general the quality of the designated cycle routes are very poor. I've had 6 punctures in the past year from Porty high st. alone due to broken glass and shards of metal, not to mention all the potholes between porty and fife.

There's no problem cycling on the Prom, just do it with respect for other users and everybody is happy. Obviously some Council numptie got no cycling signs put up along half of the Prom. However the police have no issue and the Edinburgh Promenade and Edinburgh Core Paths both include the Prom and explicitly refer to cycling.

You need to get some proper tyres; I'd recommend the Schwalbe Marathon - bullet proof.

And regarding trams should use existing rail lines - do you seriously think a tram routed Leith-Seafield-Porty-Cameron Toll-Morningside-Georgie-Haymarket-Waverley would get any custom?

Yes. After all, they laid the railway along that route for a reason.

Bit of circular reasoning there - after all the services were dropped for a reason too. Travelling from Leith to the city centre via the South Sub is a non-starter.

Oh, keep in mind we've got a rail station locally too - Brunstane.

L/

[Grunk]

You need to get some proper tyres; I'd recommend the Schwalbe Marathon - bullet proof.

Bought a pair a couple of weeks back, haven't fitted them yet, I'm waiting for my next puncture, which'll now never happen as I now have decent tyres to replace them with, but it does mean that they are doing their job in stopping punctures.

Bit of circular reasoning there - after all the services were dropped for a reason too. Travelling from Leith to the city centre via the South Sub is a non-starter.

Not exactly what I was driving at. But perhaps going to Leith or Granton from Portobello or Cameron toll would be a viable use of the south circular.

Or going to the City centre via Leith

Or going to Haymarket from Morningside (without going through Leith)

I think that the philosophy of all new transport links having to go to Leith is a pretty poor one TBH, not everyone wants to go there.

Weren't the railways closed because of the Beeching report, that basically said, there's no point having a railway because everyone will be driving everywhere and it going to be far cheaper than anything ever, so no-one will want to use local trains anymore?

And regarding Brunstane, it does offer a superior service to the city centre than the 26, but it's only really accessible to folk who live within a 15 minute radius.