Message for PoP

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:08

So sorry to hear about your son being attacked and mugged PoP..I hope that he makes a full recovery soon and that it doesn't affect his confidence...poor guy

It always surprises me that it seems to be much more dangerous for teenage boys to be out in the street than it is for girls. Maybe that's just my perception

I have two daughters and I know that I would feel total rage if anyone harmed a hair on their headÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦especially it seems after all my careful nurturing and teaching them to respect others

Realistically I know that revenge would not be an option for me as I would not actually be able to harm another human being (unless I was acting in spontaneous self/family defence) and would have to let justice take its course.

Forgiveness is another matter

Post by **wangi** » 09 Nov 2005, 10:40

Yeah, pass on my best too... And what Foxy said about confidence is spot on, don't loose it!

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:02

Cheers guys. He sounded shaky last night but I am sure he will be fine and relying on the full weight of the law to bring the the perpretators to justice.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:10

PoP and SoPoP are bearing up well. It was an attempted robbery by older men and SoPoP seems to have hung onto all of his possessions except a tooth.

Foxy, sadly you are mistaken about girls being more immune to this type of attack. I am constantly hearing stories, from Lisa, about girls she knows that have been beaten up, right here in Portobello.

As for revenge? Regardless of how one feels about this the reality kicks in. It is very difficult to physically harm another human being.

I once had a work colleague whose daughter's personality changed dramatically, when she was about 16. Her life fell apart and she descended into drugs. About 8 years later, when she was 24 she confessed to her mother that she had been raped by 3 boys she attended school with.

I often have nightmares about something like this happening to one of my daughters and I hope I would have the strength to let the Law, dish out Justice. I believe many fathers would be sorely tempted to take matters into their own hands.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:36

Porty wrote:she confessed to her mother that she had been raped

Interesting use of language there, Porty. Confessing usually implies one has done something wrong. I would assume that's not what you meant, but I think when it comes to issues like this one needs to be careful with one's use of language.

PoP, sorry to hear your son had such an ordeal.

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:43

Poor guy,

Glad to hear he's on the mend physically.
The psychological and emotional upset that one has to deal with in the aftermath of a crime like this, well, any crime really, can be quite another matter though.

As the others have said, I hope this incident doesn't affect his confidence too much in the long term.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:47

PoP , what a horrific thing to happen. Like Foxy, I hope that there is no long term damage, either physical or pyschological to your son. We may fear for our daughters Porty, but I believe statistically young men are more likely to be victims of violent, random attack.
Here's hoping the Police catch these guys before another person is hurt.

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:49

Bellybabe wrote:
Porty wrote:she confessed to her mother that she had been raped
Interesting use of language there, Porty. Confessing usually implies one has done something wrong. I would assume that's not what you meant, but I think when it comes to issues like this one needs to be careful with one's use of language.

I wouldn't have read any such meaning into Porty's post at all.
I interpreted the use of "confessed" as in the girl in question had kept this terrible secret to herself all those years.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:55

Bellybabe wrote:
Porty wrote:she confessed to her mother that she had been raped
Interesting use of language there, Porty. Confessing usually implies one has done something wrong. I would assume that's not what you meant, but I think when it comes to issues like this one needs to be careful with one's use of language.

Have you been on the pejorative pedantry pills again?

I should have said confided. My use of English is always getting me in trouble. The thing is, it did turn out to be part confession, as she had lied to her mother that nothing was wrong or had happened. Which compounded the girl's distress.

A very, very difficult situatioin and of course the confidence came too late for the law to be brought into force. She never did name names and it is dangerous to assume that the boys are guilty. However, lets hope if they are guilty and are reading this, it has brought the horror of what they did back to them.

A very good chance that they are parents themselves now and will have to carry their guilt and fears with them. Many will think that is punishment enough.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 09 Nov 2005, 12:24

Porty wrote: Have you been on the pejorative pedantry pills again?

Oh heck, I thought it was iron tablets I was taking...

Sorry - it's a subject that is important to me. I'm a linguist by training, and I used to be a partner in a website that ran peer support groups for people who'd been raped or sexually abused, and from that experience I know that the language used is very important. Survivors of rape and abuse are often blamed for what some other person did to them in very subtle ways, and the language we use is one of the ways. So I tend to go off on one about it. *sheepish smile*

BB

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 09 Nov 2005, 12:35

Nada.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 09 Nov 2005, 12:36

wangi wrote:Yeah, pass on my best too... And what Foxy said about confidence is spot on, don't loose it!

loose?

noose?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 09 Nov 2005, 12:46

Marya wrote: We may fear for our daughters Porty, but I believe statistically young men are more likely to be victims of violent, random attack.

Sorry, I'm going to have to "Carla" you.

Statistics can prove anything

all I know is, in the last month alone I have heard of three girls known to Lisa who have been hospitalised after being beaten up by other girls. All these girls are from the Porty area.

From what I understand there was no other motive, apart from beating up. In SoPoP's case it was a robbery by men thought to be in their 20's. no minors were involved and the attack took place in England.

BTW: why fear for the daughters you do not have?

xxxx · Post by **xxxx** » 09 Nov 2005, 13:12

POP:
Replied last night to your original post, but I think it was zapped out of sympathy to your feelings.

My nephew (about the same age) took a real shoeing this summer from a collection of asbo grade genetic landfill.

In my case, I found myself sickened at first, then angry, then a lot of time wondering how any one could do this (never worked that one out), finally I was just grateful it wasn't worse and that he made a good recovery. Well balanced kids, which I'm sure he is, are pretty robust.

Revenge is up to the justice system, though I hope its more interested in your son's case than it was in my nephew's.

Forgiveness is pretty much the primary victim's choice, I personally wouldn't know how to forgive the 'people' that hold another down and use a torn coke can to slash his face (after a stiff kicking), nor would I feel the need.

Its traumatic, but the confusion/nausea/anger does subside.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 09 Nov 2005, 13:34

xxxx wrote: asbo grade genetic landfill

It's much more environmentally correct (or is that politically friendly) to consider recycling before landfill.

Although I think that "read" copies of the Sun (or maybe ones with the pages turned and the pictures looked at) shouldn't even be recycled as toilet paper lest we insult turds.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 09 Nov 2005, 13:44

xxxx wrote:....a collection of asbo grade genetic landfill.

Excellent description

xxxx wrote: In my case, I found myself sickened at first, then angry, then a lot of time wondering how any one could do this (never worked that one out), finally I was just grateful it wasn't worse and that he made a good recovery. Well balanced kids, which I'm sure he is, are pretty robust.

Revenge is up to the justice system, though I hope its more interested in your son's case than it was in my nephew's.

Forgiveness is pretty much the primary victim's choice, I personally wouldn't know how to forgive the 'people' that hold another down and use a torn coke can to slash his face (after a stiff kicking), nor would I feel the need.

Its traumatic, but the confusion/nausea/anger does subside.

You have pretty much summed up exactly where I am on the whole situation and I can only add, that at this stage at least, the police are taking an interest.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 09 Nov 2005, 14:28

Excellent post xxxx and I hope the boy fully recovers.

The law is there to deliver justice but in this case it sounds like the "asbo grade genetic landfill" got away without either justice or revenge.

When it comes to forgiveness, one good example of real life that haa amazed me recently is; Gary? the victim of 7/7 who lost part of his leg and has been appearing regularly on BBC Breakfast espousing forgiveness. It must make it a bit easier that he knows who the perpetrators were and that they are dead. All the same, his spirit is something to behold.

Rather unfortunately, he is simultaneously enacting revenge on the rest of us with his new Single

xxxx · Post by **xxxx** » 09 Nov 2005, 15:41

Porty wrote:Excellent post xxxx and I hope the boy fully recovers.

Thanks,Jamie's fine now. He's a pretty phlegmatic skin.

The law is there to deliver justice but in this case it sounds like the "asbo grade genetic landfill" got away without either justice or revenge.

For me, after you get past the retribution (which is down to misplaced, but unavoidable, feelings of guilt/helplessness) you would be content with justice, but what you really want is a situation where this just doesn't happen.

When it comes to forgiveness, one good example of real life that haa amazed me recently is; Gary? the victim of 7/7 who lost part of his leg and has been appearing regularly on BBC Breakfast espousing forgiveness. It must make it a bit easier that he knows who the perpetrators were and that they are dead. All the same, his spirit is something to behold.

The only way to approach it really, unfortunately different people react very differently to trauma, its not merely a question of attitude. I wonder how Bruce Lait feels. There's an extremely disturbing part of his recollection (about halfway down) which suggests the perpetrators got away with it.

Rather unfortunately, he is simultaneously enacting revenge on the rest of us with his new Single

Thats the great thing about art, no matter how crap, it doesn't do any harm.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 09 Nov 2005, 20:27

I really feel for your son and your family POP. Unfortunately I wouldn't get excited about any kind of punishment being meted out by the Court if they are caught. We were in a similar situation about 3 years ago when my son and his friends were jumped. Although EKTH wasn't badly hurt (punched face, big bruise on arm where he was thrown into a wheelie bin) his friend was knocked to the ground and then the other boy held onto a garden gate to give him more leverage whilst he jumped on his victim's head. Despite four of them pleading guilty to serious bodily harm, three of them were let off and the head jumper was given a 6 month supervision order which basically meant he was visited once a week by a Social Worker. Wow

But we have forgiven them and don't hold any grudges

Gizmo · Post by **Gizmo** » 09 Nov 2005, 21:09

Very sorry to hear about your son PoP. It is scary when awful things like that happen. Does make you wonder about the state of our society, when random acts of violence seem to be getting more and more common.

Epykat; I hope that boy wasn't too badly injured. Having just spent an afternoon at Astley Ainslie in a tutorial about the effects of traumatic brain injury, it is awful to comprehend how badly a persons life can be affected by a blow to the head. Apparently stamping is now becoming more common in violent attacks, which is leading to more and more brain injuries.....

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 09 Nov 2005, 22:12

Sorry to hear that, that pretty much sucks. glad to hear that he is recovering well.

Whereabouts did this happen?

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 09 Nov 2005, 22:45

Robin! wrote:Whereabouts did this happen?

In Newcastle where he is at College. Just outside Gosforth at the Town Moor which is a decent area.

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 09 Nov 2005, 23:15

Ahh I thought it happened in Porty.

Jackson Priest · Post by **Jackson Priest** » 10 Nov 2005, 00:27

PoP, Sorry to hear about PoP Jr. Exact same thing happened to me when I was 19 y.o.a., not far down the road from Newcastle.

No money changed hands - I think the assailants were more jealous of my friend and I's lovely long hair and winklepicker boots (which made it very hard to run away). Swift dental work was required for me, as well as having a hand in plaster for 6 weeks (it having been kicked repeatedly while trying to protect my head with it - nice), and my friend required a new nose.

Felt a bit paranoid for a while after, but it soon wore off, as I'm sure it will for your son. I think it was more difficult for the people around, with feelings of rage etc as you have described, but you just gots to let it go in the end.

Years later we are able to chuckle about it and call it character-building etc etc, but it was a bit grim at the time I must admit.

BTW - Not sure if the Criminal Injuries Board still exists, but check it out - I remember that at the time, even though there was no prosecution (and the reality is that there probably won't be for you either - not to your satisfaction anyway), we were able to make a claim through this, and ended up with a nice pay-out a year later. Money might not be uppermost in your thoughts at the moment, but it's worth making a claim if you can get it.

Ah - just googled it - have a look here:
https://www.cica.gov.uk/portal/page?_pa ... ema=PORTAL

JP.

teddygirl · Post by **teddygirl** » 10 Nov 2005, 08:32

So sorry to hear of your sons ordeal PoP, hope he manages to put it behind him. Fortunately for him he has youth on his side and the resilience that usually goes with it.
I know this from experience (like a few others on here it seems) Several years ago I too got jumped in the lovely John Street where I lived at the time. It wasn't my money he was trying to grab( I will leave the rest to your imagination) but luckily for me I was very strong and fit in those days and it was him who ended up pinned against the fence feeling more frightened than me. It wasn't until I got home that it really dawned on me how nasty it could have been if he had been a bigger and stronger person.
I was more cautious after that but it didn't stop me going out and about and I managed to put it behind me.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 10 Nov 2005, 11:35

I cannot believe how many previous victims are surfacing - it seems everyone has been attacked or known someone close who has! Makes me think that I must be lucky never to have been on the receiving end considering how often I have been up town (and some of the states I have been in).

Thanks for all the supportive comments which I have passed on to PoP Jnr in his hour of need.

Be careful out there!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 10 Nov 2005, 18:56

I'm sure that, particularly for guys, it's more likely than not that you are going to encounter violence at some stage of your life, for no reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Aged 17 I was beaten unconscious by a couple of bouncer thugs and left on the pavement with two missing teeth. A few years later I was assaulted in a pub and on at least two further occasions I managed to outrun guys who were intent on causing me damage.

We all know that there are people out there whose weekend entertainment isn't complete unless they have inflicted violence on another human being. Young people generally accept these risks - they have to otherwise they wouldn't have a social life - but it's very tough being a parent. There is a fine balance to be struck between allowing your kids the freedom they want/need and being over-protective. As the parent of a 12 year old I am just beginning to have to deal with these issues.

My sympathies and best wishes to your son.

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 10 Nov 2005, 22:33

Sorry to hear about POP Jr's ordeal. Hope he feels better soon.

arachnid · Post by **arachnid** » 10 Nov 2005, 23:01

What kind of world are we living in when it's not safe to go out at night, or even in the day time!!!

When any of my family are out somewhere I find much relief when they're back home again safely!!
So hope that POPjr and family recover from the ordeal very soon.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 11 Nov 2005, 14:56

Now we have the incident with Natashia jackman a 15 year old girl who has been stabbed in the eye at school and 3 of her schoolmates have been arrested.

One can only imagine how upset Humperdinck must be.

xxxx · Post by **xxxx** » 17 Nov 2005, 12:28

Porty wrote: Gary? the victim of 7/7 who lost part of his leg and has been appearing regularly on BBC Breakfast espousing forgiveness. It must make it a bit easier that he knows who the perpetrators were and that they are dead. All the same, his spirit is something to behold.

Oh dear naughty gary

One way to learn forgiveness

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Nov 2005, 12:39

OMG what a ***!!!

"The blonde and brunette victims, both privately educated

, were bundled into a dank garage at council flats in Brixton, South London."

"They were stripped and raped a savage 45 times by the brutes. During their 1Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â½-hour ordeal, a knife was held to the throat of one girl.

Holness ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Â